Oct 15, 2026 Historic Architectural Review Board (HARB)

[ 1. Roll Call ]

[00:00:11]

WELCOME TO THE OCTOBER 15TH, 2026 CITY OF SAINT AUGUSTINE HISTORIC ARCHITECTURE REVIEW BOARD MEETING. IF I CAN GET EVERYONE'S ATTENTION, IF EVERYONE CAN MUTE YOUR CELL PHONES OR ELECTRONIC DEVICES THAT MAKE THINGS GO A LITTLE BIT FASTER, I APPRECIATE IT.

MADAM SECRETARY, CAN YOU CALL ROLL? BRAD BEACH HERE. LINDA POTTER HERE. CATHERINE DUNCAN HERE. HERE. MCDONALD HERE. MICHAEL BLAKE HERE. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE ALL HERE. AT THIS TIME.

I'LL OPEN IT UP TO PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ANYTHING THAT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA FOR TODAY. IF SO, YOU CAN PLEASE COME UP TO THE PODIUM. I AM SEEING NO ONE FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, SO I WILL CLOSE

[3. Approval of Minutes ]

YES. HERE. MCDONALD. YES. LINDA. POTTER. YES. YES. OUR NEXT MEETING IS THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 19TH AT 1:00. RIGHT HERE IN THE ALCAZAR ROOM. AND NEXT WOULD BE THE APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA.

[4. Modification and approval of Agenda ]

I DID EMAIL THEM AND ASK WHETHER NOVEMBER WAS THE PREFERRED DATE, BUT I HAVE NOT HEARD BACK FROM THEM YET. OKAY. THEY HAVE HAD MULTIPLE CONTINUANCES, SO IT IS UP TO THE BOARD TO DETERMINE HOW YOU'D LIKE TO CONTINUE IT, WHETHER YOU'D LIKE TO DO THAT TO THE NEXT MEETING OR TO A DATE UNCERTAIN, WHICH MEANS THAT WE WOULD JUST RE-ADVERTISE IT WHENEVER THEY'RE READY TO COME BACK. I WOULD THINK THAT WE WOULD JUST CONTINUE IT TO THE NEXT MEETING. JUST TO KEEP IT MOVING, HOPEFULLY MOVING FORWARD TO SOME DEGREE. DOES EVERYONE AGREE WITH THAT? OKAY, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MODIFICATIONS TO TODAY'S AGENDA. ALL RIGHT. CAN I GET A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. GARY MCDONALD. YES.

LINDA POTTER. YES. MICHAEL. BLAKE. YES. CATHERINE DUNCAN. YES. BRAD BEACH. YES. ALL RIGHT.

[6.a) HP2026-0079 ]

THE APPLICANT IS SEEKING TO INSTALL VINYL WINDOW LETTERS AS DETAILED IN THE SCOPE OF WORK BELOW, AS PART OF SIGNAGE PACKAGE FOR A NEW BUSINESS, YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THAT THE LETTERS HAVE ALREADY BEEN APPLIED. SO THIS PHOTO IS ACTUALLY THE BUILDING AS IT IS CURRENTLY. THEY'VE ALREADY APPLIED THE LETTERS PER THE SIGN CODE. ONE WINDOW SIGN

[00:05:03]

AND THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. WE'RE AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, MISS SEYMOUR. WE CAN HAVE THE APPLICANT BACK UP AT THIS TIME. YOU CAN ADD TO THAT OR PROVIDE ANY KIND OF PRESENTATION THAT YOU WOULD LIKE. OKAY. OKAY. SO WE ARE REQUESTING APPROVAL OF THE VINYL LETTERING. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FINAL LETTERING? DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT AT THIS TIME? I'M WAITING TO HEAR IF SHE'S GOT ANYTHING TO ADD. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? NO, I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT OTHER THAN WE DO HAVE A HANGING SIGN THAT IS A SEPARATE APPLICATION THAT HAS PASSED ZONING WHERE THE CITY HAS APPROVED OR ZONING HAS APPROVED THE THE FONT ON THE ON THE HANGING SIGN THAT IS, I BELIEVE, CLOSE TO WHAT THEY HAVE. SO THE THE FONT ON THE HANGING SIGN AND THE VINYL LETTERING WE RECEIVED FROM THE ART DEPARTMENT FROM 19. SO IT'S THEIR, THEIR FONT. SO ZONING HAS APPROVED THE FONT ON THE HANGING SIGN. SO WE'RE HOPING TO HAVE THE FONT APPROVED FOR THE WINDOW LETTERING. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME I WILL JUST OPEN IT UP TO THE PUBLIC FOR ANY PUBLIC COMMENT ON BEHALF OF THIS PROJECT. I AM SEEING NONE. SO WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC AND JUST OPEN IT UP FOR THE BOARD DISCUSSION. SO I GUESS THE, THE, THE, THE COUPLE THINGS THAT I SAW INITIALLY WAS, I GUESS ONE PAINTED VERSUS VINYL AND THEN THE FONT TYPE. SO THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THE TWO BIG THINGS I THINK WE NEED TO DISCUSS AND KIND OF GO OVER TOGETHER. MISS DUNCAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO START US OFF? WELL, I WAS GOING TO SAY IT SEEMS LIKE IT PRETTY MUCH MEETS THE CRITERIA OF WHAT IS REQUIRED, SO I'M CURIOUS TO HEAR THE OTHER'S THOUGHTS ON IT, BUT SEEM LIKE, OKAY, IT'S MEETING THE FONT. YEAH. THE I MEAN, THE BUILDING SORT OF, I SUPPOSE IT NODS A LITTLE TO VERNACULAR, BUT IT'S BEEN REDONE SO MANY TIMES I CAN SEE WHY IT'S NOT ON THE REGISTER ITSELF. PRETTY BASIC LETTERING. DID YOU BRING A COPY OF THE LETTERING THAT IS ON THE SIGN? I MEAN, WE'RE NOT APPROVING THAT BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY BEEN DONE OR DONE BY STAFF. DO WE HAVE ANY OF THAT? IT'S IN THE ARTWORK. I THINK SHE'S GOING TO PULL IT UP FOR ME.

[00:10:17]

THERE'S NO CODE ISSUE. IT'S IT'S THE FONT AND THE MATERIAL. I GUESS I WOULD SAY OF THE, OF THE VINYL THAT'S BEFORE YOU, AM I CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT. YES. OKAY. THANK YOU. I'M JUST A LITTLE CURIOUS IS THIS IS KIND OF AN AFTER THE FACT SUBMISSION. SO IT'S A SEMI AFTER THE FACT.

WHEN THE APPLICATION WAS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED, THE VINYL LETTERING HAD NOT BEEN APPLIED YET. BUT WHEN STAFF WENT OUT TO DO THEIR REVIEW, WHEN WE TOOK PHOTOS, THE VINYL LETTERING WAS ALREADY THERE. SO IT WILL BE CONSIDERED AFTER THE FACT WHEN WE ISSUE THE SIGN PERMIT IF IT'S APPROVED. OKAY. I THINK GENERALLY I'M I'M NOT OFFENDED BY WHAT THEY'VE PROVIDED, JUST KIND OF MISSED THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE ANY OVERSIGHT. RIGHT. AND MISS DUNCAN, ANY OF THE CONVERSATION WE'VE HAD KIND OF CHANGE, KIND OF YOUR OPINION ON THINGS. I DIDN'T I GUESS I DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS ALREADY DONE. I THOUGHT YOU WERE SHOWING US PICTURES WITH IT. I THOUGHT IT WAS WHAT IT WAS BEING PROPOSED TO BE, BUT IT'S ALREADY THERE. SO THAT'S KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE THAT THAT'S NOT A PRECEDENCE THAT I THINK, YOU KNOW, IS EASY TO SUPPORT WITH THAT, IT WAS ACCIDENTALLY APPLIED. WE HAVE A GREAT INSTALL TEAM AND SOMETIMES WHEN THEY ARE FINISHED FOR THE DAY WITH THE THINGS THAT OUR. TEAM HAS ASSIGNED FOR THEM TO DO, THEY'LL COME BACK TO THE SHOP EARLY AND ASK AROUND IF ANYBODY ELSE HAS ANYTHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. AND THIS DAY, I WAS NOT IN THE OFFICE AT THE TIME.

AND MY MY COWORKER KRISTEN, WHO ASSIGNS ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THEY NEED TO DO, WAS NOT THERE.

AND SOMEBODY HANDED THEM THE PRECUT LETTERS THAT WERE READY, BUT AND SAID, OH, THESE ARE READY. YOU CAN GO INSTALL THESE. AND THEY INSTALLED THEM. AND SO WE, IT, IT WAS NOT A PURPOSEFUL INSTALL. SO I DO WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT I TOO THOUGHT IT WAS A MOCK UP, BUT IN THE SAME BREATH IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE IN THE RIGHT ORDER. IT'S A YES OR NO QUESTION WHETHER WE LIKE IT AND WE'RE OKAY WITH THE VINYL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THINK IN THIS CASE YOU VOTE ON WHAT IT IS. IT IS VINYL. IT CAN BE REMOVED. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT. THEY PEEL IT OFF AND THEY GO AGAIN. IT'S NOT LIKE THEY ETCHED THE WINDOW SO THEY DIDN'T RIP WINDOWS OUT OF A

[00:15:01]

ALL RIGHT. CAN I GET A MOTION? OKAY, I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE APPLICATION.

HP2026007914. AVENIDA MENENDEZ FOR THE AFTER THE APPLICATION OF SANSERIF FONT IN VINYL LETTERING ON THE LOWER SECTIONS OF THE PICTURE WINDOWS TO THE FRONT OF THE NEW STORE. NINE LINE APPAREL, BLACK RIFLE COFFEE. ALL RIGHT. CAN I GET A SECOND, SECOND? SECOND IT. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MADAM SECRETARY. CAN YOU CALL ROLL HERE? MCDONALD. YES. MICHAEL.

BLAKE. YES. CATHERINE. DUNCAN. YES. LINDA. POTTER. YES. YES. YES. JUST A REMINDER. I KNOW YOU DO PROBABLY A LOT OF WORK IN TOWN, SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE GO THROUGH THESE PROCESSES MOVING FORWARD AND NOT HAVE THIS. WE DO APOLOGIZE. IT IS ACCIDENTALLY PUT IN. ALL

[6.b) HP2026-0078]

WE'LL HAVE THE STAFF REPORT. HAVE YOU BACK UP FOR YOUR PRESENTATION? THANK YOU. THIS PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE EAST SIDE OF MARINE STREET, BETWEEN SAINT FRANCIS AND SAN SALVADOR STREETS WITHIN THE HP1 ZONING DISTRICT. THE BUILDING WAS ORIGINALLY A CARRIAGE HOUSE FOR THE ADJACENT RESIDENTS TO THE NORTH AT 103 MARINE STREET, AND AT SOME POINT THE SUBJECT PROPERTY WAS SEPARATED FROM THE PRIMARY PARCEL AND ADDRESSED AS AN INDEPENDENT STRUCTURE. THE HARB PREVIOUSLY HEARD AN APPLICATION FOR THIS STRUCTURE BETWEEN 2002 AND 2003, AND THE ORIGINAL REQUEST WAS A FULL DEMOLITION OF THE STRUCTURE. WHEN IT WAS CLEAR THAT THE HARB MAY NOT APPROVE OF FULL DEMOLITION, THE APPLICATION BECAME A REQUEST TO REHABILITATE AND ELEVATE THE STRUCTURE, AND IN FEBRUARY OF 2003, HARBOR APPROVED THE REHABILITATION WITH PROPOSED FENESTRATION CHANGES. THE ADDITION OF CRAFTSMAN STYLE DETAILS AND AN INCREASE IN BUILDING HEIGHT. ACCORDING TO THE AGEP, ACCESSORY BUILDINGS SHOULD, INCLUDING PORCHES, SHOULD BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE PRIMARY BUILDING IN BOTH DESIGN MATERIALS AND LEVEL OF DETAIL AND ORNAMENTATION. SO THE PROPERTY OWNER AT THE VICTORIAN STYLED RESIDENCE OF 103 MARINE STREET RECENTLY ACQUIRED THIS ADJACENT GARAGE APARTMENT AND INTENDS TO MAKE THE GARAGE APARTMENT MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE AGEP. BY REMOVING THE CRAFTSMAN DETAILS AND ADDING ARCHITECTURAL DETAILS FROM THE PRIMARY RESIDENCE ONTO THIS FORMER CARRIAGE HOUSE. IN LIEU OF MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS, THE APPLICANT PROVIDED PHOTOGRAPHS OF ELEMENTS FROM 103 MARINE STREET AND ITS ACCESSORY STRUCTURES, WHICH CAN BE VERIFIED DURING THE PERMITTING PROCESS. SO THE MOST VISIBLE MODIFICATION WILL OCCUR ALONG MARINE STREET, WHERE AN EXISTING ENCLOSED SPACE IS PROPOSED TO BE OPENED UP INTO A DECORATIVE BALCONY, RETAINING THE EXISTING PROJECTING DIMENSIONS AND ADDING NEW WINDOWS TO MATCH THOSE INSTALLED WITH THE HARBOR PROOF BALCONY ON THE MORE MODERN GARAGE APARTMENT AT 103 MARINE STREET, BALCONETTES ARE TYPICALLY ONLY REFERENCED WITHIN THE A, G, P AS RELATED TO MEDITERRANEAN INFLUENCED STYLES, AND THE AGEP ALSO STATES THAT SECOND STORY BALCONIES ON GARAGE APARTMENTS SHOULD BE DEEP ENOUGH TO BE FUNCTIONAL AND EXTEND ACROSS THE WIDTH OF THE FACADE. TO PROTECT WINDOWS AND DOORS, THE HARB SHOULD DETERMINE WHETHER A DEEPER, FUNCTIONAL BALCONY MAY BE MORE APPROPRIATE, WHILE KEEPING IN MIND THAT A DEEPER BALCONY MAY REQUIRE ADDITIONAL BRACING THAT WOULD BE VISIBLE FROM THE EXTERIOR. THE REAR TWO STORY PORCH WILL ALSO BE MODIFIED TO REMOVE CRAFTSMAN ELEMENTS AND ADD MORE ORNATE VICTORIAN ELEMENTS. AND JUST TO GO BACK TO THE HISTORY OF THE BUILDING PRIOR TO THE 2003 REHABILITATION, THIS CARRIAGE HOUSE WAS VERY UTILITARIAN IN NATURE, FEATURED AN OPEN FLOOR GROUND SPACE WITH AN OPEN AIR CARPORT ON THE FRONT, A COVERED PORCH AT A AT THE REAR, AND A CENTRAL STORAGE SPACE ENCLOSED ON THREE SIDES WITH RUSTICATED

[00:20:03]

HARB FINDS THAT THE PROPOSED NEW PORCH AND BALCONY DESIGNS, AS PROPOSED OR MODIFIED BY THE HARB. MEET THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION NUMBER NINE AS A COMPATIBLE CONTEMPORARY DESIGN. AND THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION. WE'RE AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. OKAY. THANK YOU, MISS SEYMOUR. MR. CRITCHLOW, WE CAN HAVE YOU BACK UP. AND. SIR, I HAD ONE QUESTION. THE STAFF HAS REFERRED TO THIS AS AN ACCESSORY BUILDING, BUT YET IT IS AN INDIVIDUALLY ON A SEPARATE PARCEL AND A RESIDENCE IN ITSELF. CORRECT. BUT IF IT'S ASSOCIATION WITH THE BUILDING AT 103 MARINE STREET IS THE REASON FOR THE ARCHITECTURAL CHANGES. THAT'S WHY WE REFERENCE IT AS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. OKAY, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. WELL, AS. LET ME SEE HERE. I'LL MOVE THIS LINE UP.

THIS THIS AGAIN IS THE BUILDING AT 103. THIS IS THE ADJACENT PROPERTY. AND THIS THE OWNER AT 103 HAS RECENTLY ACQUIRED 103 AND A HALF. AND BUT THIS IS THE FENESTRATION, YOU KNOW AND THE DETAILING ON 103. AND WHAT HE THE OWNER WOULD LIKE TO DO WOULD BE TO MODIFY THE DETAILING ON 103 AND A HALF TO KIND OF MATCH WHAT HE HAS ON HIS HOUSE. THIS IS THIS IS MORE THE DETAILING. AND THIS IS THE THIS IS THE 103 AND A HALF. AND YOU CAN SEE 103 TO THE LEFT.

AND AS STAFF MENTIONED, THIS WAS ONCE A CARRIAGE HOUSE FOR FOR 103. THIS IS A, I GUESS THEY CALL THIS A JULIET BALCONY. AND THIS IS AT ONE 103 MARINE STREET. AND THIS JULIET BALCONY WAS APPROVED. WELL, I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG AGO, WITHIN THE PAST 2 OR 3 YEARS, PROBABLY.

AND IT AGAIN, IS NOT A FUNCTIONAL BALCONY. YOU KNOW, IT IS MERELY DECORATIVE. THOSE DOORS UP THERE DO NOT DO NOT OPEN. AND THAT WOULD BE THE SAME TYPE OF DETAIL, SAME TYPE OF ELEMENT WE WERE GOING TO USE ON THE FRONT OF 103 AND A HALF. THIS IS THE REAR OF 103 AND A HALF. IF YOU REMEMBER, I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO PRIOR TO ABOUT 2003, ANYTHING IN HP1 HAD TO BE COLONIAL. ANYTHING NEW. CONSTRUCTION HAD TO BE COLONIAL. AND SOMEWHERE RIGHT AT AT.

SHORTLY AFTER THAT. 102, 2002, 2003, IT WAS CHANGED TO ALLOW ANY TYPE OF ARCHITECTURE THAT IS COMPATIBLE WITH ADJACENT ARCHITECTURE IN THE IN, YOU KNOW, IN THE AREA, NOT NOT NECESSARILY ADJACENT, BUT IN THE VICINITY. SO THIS IS WHY THIS WAS NOT COLONIAL ORIGINALLY. THIS IS THE THIS SHOWS THE MODIFICATIONS, THE UPPER ELEVATION IS EXISTING.

[00:25:04]

THAT IS. WHAT WE'RE PROPOSING FOR 103 AND A HALF. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME I'LL OPEN UP FOR THE PUBLIC FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. IS THERE ANYONE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THIS PROJECT? I AM SEEING NO ONE. SO WE'LL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND OPEN IT FOR BOARD DISCUSSION. MR. BLAKE, CAN YOU START US OFF FOR THIS ONE? SURE. WELL, I WOULD AGREE THAT DETAILING FOR THIS STRUCTURE MATCHES THE HOUSE. AND IN KEEPING WITH THE ADJACENT STRUCTURE. IT IS A LITTLE BIT ODD TO HAVE THESE FEATURES ON THIS TYPE OF BUILDING. IT IS. BUT. I DON'T I DON'T SEE ANY REASON TO TO NOT APPROVE IT. JUST NOT A WE'RE TAKING ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES AND APPLYING THEM TO A BUILDING TYPE AND HAVE HAD THOSE THINGS.

SO I MAY BE CURIOUS, ARE THOSE DESIRED, THE BALCONY OR JUST THE LOOK OR THE WINDOWS OR. IS THERE AN ARCHITECTURAL GOAL THERE WITH JUST CHANGING THE LOOK TO MATCH THE HOUSE? IS.

THAT'S THE EXTENT OF IT. YEAH. THE OWNER'S DIRECTION IS HE WANTS IT TO TO MATCH HIS RESIDENCE. GOTCHA. NOW HE DOES USE THIS GARAGE FOR HIS. HE HAS A CAR IN THERE AND A DIFFERENT THINGS. WHAT IS INTENDED USE OF IT? I DON'T I REALLY HAVEN'T DISCUSSED THAT WITH HIM.

WHETHER HE WANTS TO IT LONG TERM, YOU KNOW, OR WHETHER HE'S REALLY JUST WANTS TO KEEP IT AS A GUEST HOUSE FOR HIS RESIDENCE. I'M NOT NOT SURE WHAT HIS MOTIVATION IS THERE, BUT HE JUST WANTS IT TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH HIS RESIDENCE. OKAY. ANY OTHER COMMENTS, MISS POTTER? NO, I THINK I CAN UNDERSTAND THE THE DESIRE TO HAVE MORE COMPATIBILITY WITH THE MAIN BUILDING. MY ONLY REMINDER FOR YOU IS THAT IF THERE IS ANY DISTURBANCE OF THE GROUND IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THE RENOVATIONS, THAT AN ARCHEOLOGICAL REVIEW WILL BE REQUIRED. NO, THERE IS NOTHING ON THE GROUND TO BE DISTURBED. EVERYTHING IS JUST AS YOU SEE IT. IT'S JUST. YOU KNOW, SUPERFICIAL ON THE BUILDING ITSELF. SO IT'S NOT ANYTHING? NO. NOTHING'S BEING ADDED OR NO ADDITIONS TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE. OKAY. YEAH, I SEE IT.

I SEE IT THAT WAY AS WELL. BASICALLY A MODIFICATION OF SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY THERE.

[00:30:05]

THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK LIKE DOORS. THEY'RE GOING TO LOOK LIKE DOORS, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO BE FIXED. THEY'RE GOING TO BE FIXED. SO THE OWNER WANTED TO DO THE SAME THING THAT HE WAS DOING. ON THE OTHER DETAIL I SHOWED YOU OVER AT 103 WHERE THOSE DOORS, IF YOU LOOK, LET ME SEE IF I CAN GO BACK HERE. THOSE ARE THOSE DOORS DON'T FUNCTION. I SEE WHAT YOU'VE DONE. SO THAT WAS THE SAME IDEA HE WANTED TO CARRY OVER TO THE OTHER TO TO 103 AND A HALF. SO THEY WILL BE THEY WILL BE WOOD, WOOD DOORS WITH WITH LIGHTS, YOU KNOW, FOR PAIN, LIGHT AND THEN WOOD PANELS BELOW THAT. BUT IT'S A MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT TO THE STREET VIEW. I THINK THAT REALLY IS GREAT. I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH BRINGING IT INTO CONCURRENCE WITH OTHER BUILDINGS. I'M ON THE WATER SIDE NOW. WE'VE GOT ALL THE MARINE BUILDINGS THERE WITH THE GUARD. THEY'RE ALL IN THAT OLD VICTORIAN STYLE. YOU'VE GOT THE ONE NEXT DOOR, 103, I THINK VILLAS MARINE IS RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO YOU. THE ONLY CONFLICT I SEE IS DOWN THE SIDE OF THIS BUILDING. A LOT OF FIXED LIGHTS, BUT THERE'S NO SPACE BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS. YOU DON'T REALLY SEE THAT. SO I JUST I'M ON BOARD WITH IT. I THINK IT'S A GOOD DESIGN. I THINK IT'LL LOOK SUPER. MISS DUNCAN. I LIKE THE NEW DESIGN A LOT BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL DESIGN. AND I THINK IT ALSO, YOU KNOW, WORKS WITH I'M LOOKING AT THE NORTHEAST ELEVATION AND JUST THE, YOU KNOW, THE PICKETS AND EVERYTHING SEEM TO GO BETTER WITH THE, YOU KNOW, THE CONTINUITY OF WHAT'S ALREADY THERE. SO IT SEEMS FINE. I THINK OVERALL, I THINK I AGREE, I THINK THIS IS A, A BETTER OPTION THAN WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED. HOWEVER, THERE WAS LIKE TO GET MR. CRYSTAL'S COMMENT, MAYBE A COUPLE OF ARCHITECTS HERE ON THE BOARDS COMMENT. LOOKING AT THE EAST ELEVATION WHERE WE HAVE THAT GABLE ROOF, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A SHAKE SIDING OF SOME SORT, AND THE SPINDLES ARE KIND OF UNDERNEATH THAT HEADER OF THE SHAKE GABLE ROOF. MY QUESTION IS, IS IS THAT TOO MUCH OR TOO, TOO SMALL OF A DETAIL? SHOULD THAT GO AWAY COMPLETELY AT THAT LOCATION WHERE WE HAVE THE HEAVIER GABLE KIND OF FACE OF THE WALL WITH THE SPINDLES BELOW RIGHT BELOW IT, THE HEADER, MR. CRITCHLOW, KIND OF.

DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? YOU'RE SAYING THAT THE THE SHINGLES ON THE GABLE END MAY BE A LITTLE TOO MUCH. YEAH. YES. ABOVE THE. YES. THE GINGERBREAD DETAILING UP THERE. YES.

BECAUSE OF THE SCALE OF THE GABLE WITH HAVING THE SPINDLES BELOW IT. THAT REALLY DOESN'T I DON'T I DIDN'T SEE THAT SPECIFIC KIND OF CONDITION ON 103, THE MAIN HOUSE, EVERYTHING'S KIND OF A ROOF OR A PITCHED ROOF OR WITH RAFTER TAILS WITH THE SPINDLES AT THE TOP HEADER. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS OR COMMENT IS HAVING THAT GABLE ROOF THAT'S A LITTLE BIT HEAVIER OF A KIND OF A FACE AND HAVING THE SPINDLES, CAN WE GET CAN WE DO WITHOUT THOSE SPINDLES AND JUST CARRY EVERYTHING UP TO THE, THE, THE HEADER OR DO WE HAVE TO HAVE THE SPINDLES THERE? I'M TRYING TO SIMPLIFY IT JUST A LITTLE BIT, JUST ON THE THE SECOND FLOOR. YES, SIR. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE FIRST FLOOR? THE SECOND FLOOR SPECIFICALLY AND JUST HAVE MAINLY JUST A PLAIN LITTLE. YES, SIR. THERE. YEAH. LIKE KIND OF I MEAN DO YOU THINK THAT COULD WORK ALSO? I THINK IT COULD WORK. YEAH, I THINK IT COULD WORK. WHAT ABOUT ON THE WEST ELEVATION. WELL DID YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT OR ARE YOU JUST. I DON'T BECAUSE THAT. WELL I'D LIKE TO GET EVERYONE'S COMMENT. I DIDN'T PREVIOUSLY BECAUSE THAT

[00:35:05]

YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE EAST, NO, SORRY, WEST ELEVATION, YOU'VE GOT A HIP ROOF TAKING UP A GOOD PART OF THAT SPACE UNDERNEATH THE VENT. SO THERE'S NO ISSUE IN THE SHINGLES GOING AROUND THAT. WHEN YOU GET INTO THE EAST SIDE. I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THERE SHOULD PROBABLY BE A SPRING LINE AT THE TOP OF THE PLATE WHERE IT MEETS THE RAFTER COMING DOWN ON THE RAKE. THAT PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE A HORIZONTAL BOARD, POSSIBLY LAP SIDING BELOW IT, AND SHINGLES ABOVE TO BREAK UP THE AMOUNT OF SHINGLES. I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, ISN'T IT? YEAH. LIKE IT APPEARS LIKE NOTHING WRONG WITH THE TURNED SPINDLES, THE BRACKETRY, THE. I THINK THAT'S FINE. IT'S THE MASSING OF THE SHINGLES ON THE EAST SIDE. AND A BAND COULD SOLVE THAT. I'M NOT SURE IF I'D PUT A SHORT SECTION OF SHINGLES UNDER ABANDONED SHINGLES OVER. THAT MIGHT LOOK BETTER WITH A LITTLE BIT OF LAP. DON'T FORGET THAT WHEN YOU CHANGE THIS, THE SHINGLES THAT WERE THERE ON THE CRAFTSMAN, THE ORIGINAL CRAFTSMAN COLUMNS ARE GONE. SO IT'S EVERYTHING UNDERNEATH IS CLEAN. AND I THINK MR. BEACH IS RIGHT. IT'S ACTUALLY MAKING IT LOOK TOP HEAVY. AND IF IT'S BANDED AND I MEAN, YOU COULD DO A FRIEZE ABOVE IT TOO. IT COULD BE A FLAT PANEL WITH SOME DETAIL THAT COMPLEMENTS THE PORCH. I DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT HAVE TO COME BACK. COULD THAT BE A WASTE OF TIME? BUT I THINK IT DOES NEED TO BE SEPARATED AT THE TOP PLATE WHERE THE RAFTER COMES ACROSS THE TOP PLATE AND GET SOME SEPARATION THERE. THAT'S WHERE IT LOOKS TOP HEAVY. IT WORKS ON THE EAST SIDE. FINE.

THAT'S MY OPINION. IT WOULD BE LIKE THE BEAM IS, YOU KNOW, HAS HAS A CASING PIECE ON THE BEAM.

RIGHT, RIGHT. YES. IT WOULD BE LIKE WHERE THE BEAM IS, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE CONDITION IS TODAY IN THE EXISTING PICTURES. SO BUT WE WE COULD KEEP THE SPINDLES BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S BELOW THE BEAM AND THEN ABOVE AT THE BEAM LINE, RATHER THAN BRINGING SHINGLES OVER THE BEAM AND YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE THE BEAM REVEALED, YOU'RE REVEALING THE BEAM. I THINK THAT WAS YOUR INTENT, THOUGH. MR. CRITCHLOW IS TO KEEP THE I SEE BEAM, I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE. LIKE THE EAST ELEVATION, THE WEST, THE EAST ELEVATION, EAST ELEVATION, THE EAST. SO I SEE THE TOP OF THE COLUMNS. YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE A BAND BEAM.

YEAH. LIKE FLUSH BEAM ACROSS THERE WITH THE SHINGLES ABOVE THAT. EXACTLY. WELL THAT WOULD I, THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTAND THAT. YEAH. YEAH. I CAN UNDERSTAND AND I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT'S THERE. NOW TODAY YOU'RE EXPRESSING THE

[00:40:03]

KEEP IT HIDDEN WITH THE RAFTERS. OKAY. YEAH. ALL RIGHT. WELL GUESS WHAT. THIS ALL BEING SAID.

CAN I GET A MOTION TO MOVE THIS ONE FORWARD? MISS DUNCAN, YOU WANT TO GIVE US A SHOT? I SURE WILL, OKAY. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE HP2026-0078 AT 103 AND A HALF MARINE STREET TO MODIFY THE EXISTING PORCHES AND BALCONIES. WITH THE ADDITION OF THE EXPRESSED BEAM ON THE SECOND FLOOR OF THE EAST ELEVATION, AND OTHERWISE IT'S APPROVED AS SHOWN. ALL RIGHT.

CAN I GET A SECOND? I'LL SECOND. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. MADAM SECRETARY. CAN YOU CALL ROLL KATHERINE. DUNCAN. YES. LINDA POTTER. YES. MICHAEL. BLAKE. YES. DR. MACDONALD. YES. BRAD BEACH. YES. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. GOOD LUCK. ALL

[7.b) HP2026-0068 Continued from September 17, 2026 ]

SO THAT'S WHAT WE WERE PLANNING ON USING. AND THAT'S WHAT WE SUBMITTED PICTURES OF WAS THE THE CW S STORM WINDOWS. OKAY. FOR THE EXTERNAL MUNTINS. OKAY. AND THOSE HAVE THE MUTTONS, I GUESS, BUILT IN TO THE DESIGN. YEP. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE? AND THOSE ARE ONE INCH BY 3/8.

[00:45:02]

BOARD. WHO WANTS TO START? I CAN START I MEAN, THE THE WINDOW IS I'M ASSUMING THIS IS THE NEW WINDOW. THAT'S WHAT I PRESUME IS THE WINDOW ON THE SCREEN HERE, CORRECT? YES. OKAY.

WELL THAT'S THAT'S DEFINITELY BETTER. SO I THINK THAT SEEMS FINE. STAFF, HAVE YOU SEEN A SAMPLE OF THIS WINDOW. NO. AND USUALLY WHEN LIKE A FULL NEW WINDOW IS BEING PROPOSED, I WOULD RECEIVE LIKE THE WINDOW SPECIFICATIONS OR A BROCHURE, WHICH IS WHAT WE USUALLY REQUEST FOR FULL WINDOW REPLACEMENTS. AND I DID NOT SEE THAT. SO JUST FROM THE PHOTOGRAPHS, I DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WAS. SO A NEW WINDOW BEING PROPOSED VERSUS THIS WINDOW. OKAY. WHAT IS THE PROPOSED MATERIAL OF THE WINDOW? IT'S A VINYL WINDOW.

IT'S A VINYL. OKAY. LAST TIME WE SPOKE, YOU SAID THAT THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE. AND I BELIEVE VINYL CAN BE USED IN THIS AREA. SO I WOULD SAY THAT IN MY OPINION, IF YOU CAN SUBMIT THE SPECIFICATIONS IN A CUT SHEET AND INFORMATION TO STAFF, I AGREE. I THINK IT COULD BE APPROVED, I AGREE. DOES EVERYONE AGREE WITH THAT? YEAH. MR. BLAKE, JUST WANT TO CONFIRM YOU'RE YOU'RE PUTTING THE WINDOWS BACK IN THE SAME SIZE, OPENING AND RESTORING BASICALLY THE THE MUNTINS THAT WEREN'T INSTALLED. THAT'S CORRECT. SO THE ONLY CHANGE WOULD BE FROM WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY THERE TO WHAT YOU END UP WITH IS THE MATERIAL CHANGES FROM WOOD TO VINYL. CORRECT. OKAY. AND THEN I GUESS THE IT WAS TWO OVER TWO. WERE THEY TWO OVER TWO LIGHTS? CORRECT. SO THOSE WILL GO BACK EXACTLY LIKE THEY WERE. OKAY. I JUST WANT A LITTLE CLARIFICATION BECAUSE I WAS NOT AT THE MEETING THAT YOU CAME TO LAST TIME. SO THIS IS THE FRONT FACADE ARE GOING TO BE REPLACED WITH PILLARS, WHICH ARE THE SPEC SHEETS GOING TO GO TO STAFF? THAT'S WHAT I'M UNDERSTANDING HERE. THE AND I DON'T WANT TO COMPLICATE THIS. THE ONLY OTHER COMMENT I WOULD HAVE, THE PICTURES DON'T SHOW ME EVERYTHING BUT THE WINDOWS TO ME LOOK PICTURE FRAMED. I DON'T SEE ANY SILL DETAIL OR ANYTHING THAT LIKELY WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE WITH THE ORIGINAL WOOD WINDOWS OBVIOUSLY WAS NOT BROUGHT UP LAST TIME, BUT I'M BRINGING IT UP. SO YEAH, SO THAT THAT WAS A CONCERN LAST TIME. THAT'S WHY WE SUBMITTED ALL THE PICTURES OF HOW THE WINDOWS WERE INSTALLED WITH THE SILL DEPTH AND EVERYTHING THAT WAS ALL SUBMITTED. DID THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS HAVE SILLS? YEAH. AND I MEAN, THEY'RE NOW PICTURE FRAMED. CORRECT. NO. THE THE CELLS WERE MAINTAINED.

SAY THAT AGAIN. THE WOOD SILLS THAT WERE THERE WERE MAINTAINED AND LEFT THERE. THEY ARE STILL THERE. MR. CHAIR. MR. MCDONALD, JUST TO LET YOU KNOW. SO THERE WERE A HANDFUL OF WINDOWS THAT WERE ALUMINUM WINDOWS. AND THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT YOU'RE PROBABLY LOOKING AT AND SEEING AS PICTURE FRAMES, THE SHORTER WINDOWS, THOSE WERE ALUMINUM WINDOWS THAT WERE ADDED AT A LATER DATE. WHEN WE DO HAVE THE ORIGINAL TRIM WORK ON THE WINDOWS. YES, ALL OF THE WOOD WINDOWS RETAINED THE ORIGINAL TRIM. THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS ARE FINE. I GET THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE PERMISSION TO NOT CHANGE SOMETHING. RIGHT? OKAY. IT'S A VALID QUESTION BECAUSE IF EVERYTHING WAS PICTURE FRAME, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, BUT I'M COMING IN LATE TOO. SO I'M ON BOARD WITH WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO DO. THANK YOU, MISS POTTER. NO, I HAD THE SAME CONCERN AS MR. MCDONALD, BUT YOU'VE CLARIFIED THAT MY ONLY QUESTION IS THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT YOU SUBMITTED OF SOME WINDOWS ON THE SIDE WERE NOT TWO OVER TWO. CORRECT. THOSE THOSE WERE JUST EXAMPLES THAT I GOT FROM MY MANUFACTURER OF THE TYPE OF MUTTONS. OKAY. SO WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE WHEN YOU GIVE IT TO THE STAFF WHAT THE ACTUAL WINDOWS WOULD LOOK LIKE. NOT NO PROBLEM.

EXAMPLES. YEAH, I WOULD SAY PROVIDE THE PELLA SPEC TO THE STAFF AS WELL AS SAMPLES OF EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, AND THEN MAYBE ON THE PLAN, YOU KNOW, SHOW LIKE A, I GUESS IT'S JUST GOING TO BE THE FRONT WINDOWS THAT THIS IS THE FRONT WINDOWS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. OKAY, JUST MAKING SURE YOU THE CASING OUT OF THE WINDOW IS CORRECT. SO CORRECT. YEAH. IT MATCHES WHAT WAS THERE. ALL RIGHT. CAN I GET A MOTION? I CAN DO ONE. I WASN'T HERE LAST TIME, BUT I'D BE HAPPY TO. ALL RIGHT, LET'S DO IT. AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THE MEDICINES ARE EXTERIOR WITH A RAISED PROFILE. YES. YES. OKAY. SO I'M GOING TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE PARTIAL

[00:50:02]

DUNCAN. YES. MICHAEL. BLAKE. YES. LINDA POTTER. YES. YES. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, SIR.

THANK YOU. HAVE A GOOD DAY. ALL RIGHT. NEXT UP ON THE AGENDA IS ITEM EIGHT A. IT'S FOR

[8.a) HP2026-0076]

IT'S FOR PARTIAL DEMOLITION OF A RESIDENTIAL BUILDING CONSTRUCTED 1885 TO 1894 THAT IS RECORDED IN THE FLORIDA MASTER SITE FILE AND CONTRIBUTING TO THE LINCOLNVILLE NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORIC DISTRICT. IT'S RELATED TO REHABILITATION, INCLUDING MODIFICATIONS TO FENESTRATION, REPLACEMENT OF ROOF WINDOWS, SIDING, TWO STORY FRONT PORCH AND REAR WING. LOOKS LIKE THERE'S 25 WRITTEN RESPONSES SITTING OUT. TWO WERE IN FAVOR, FOUR OPPOSED AND SEVEN HAD COMMENTS. THE COMMENTS ARE KIND OF IN THE IN THE RECORD.

ESSENTIALLY, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE BUILDING, THE COMMENTS KIND OF IN PURVIEW OR, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN EYESORE AND NEEDS REHAB, WHICH IS KIND OF OBVIOUS, BUT THANK YOU. SO IS THE APPLICANT HERE? ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU COME UP AND, AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND GET SWORN IN FOR THE RECORD, WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK UP AFTER STAFF. MATT STEWART 2704 SOUTH OCEAN SHORE BOULEVARD, FLAGLER BEACH, FLORIDA. DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? YES. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU. WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK UP. WE'LL HAVE THE STAFF REPORT AND HAVE YOU BACK UP. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. THIS IS A CERTIFICATE OF PARTIAL DEMOLITION, AS YOU STATED, AND IT WAS ORIGINALLY APPROVED IN 2021 BY THE HAAB AS A PARTIAL DEMOLITION APPLICATION. WHEN THE PARTIAL DEMOLITION ORDINANCE WAS NOT IN PLACE YET. SO I TRIED TO DETAIL WHAT WAS APPROVED IN 2021 AND HOW CERTIFICATE OF PARTIAL DEMOLITION DIFFERS. IT IS UNDER A NEW OWNER AND THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCES IN THE SCOPE OF WORK, WHICH WE'LL TALK ABOUT IN A MOMENT. THIS IS LOCATED IN THE LINCOLNVILLE NATIONAL REGISTER HISTORIC DISTRICT AS A CONTRIBUTING BUILDING. IT IS BETWEEN SOUTH AND DARROW STREETS ON ONEIDA STREET, AND AT SOME POINT BETWEEN 2019 AND 2021, THE HOUSE WAS LIFTED ABOUT FIVE FEET AND THE FIRST FLOOR OF THE OPEN, TWO STORY FRONT PORCH WAS PARTIALLY OR MOSTLY REMOVED. MANY OF THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS OF THE HOUSE APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY REPLACED WITH ALUMINUM WINDOWS, BUT THE NOVELTY WOOD SIDING WITH WOOD CORNERBOARDS AND THE PROMINENT BAY WINDOW WITH HISTORIC WINDOW SASHES TWO OVER TWO STILL REMAIN. YOU CAN SEE FROM THE STAFF PHOTOGRAPHS AND THE APPLICATION PHOTOS THAT THE HOUSE HAS SUFFERED FROM DEFERRED MAINTENANCE. A REPORT THAT DATED MARCH 2026, 2026 FOR WOOD DESTROYING ORGANISMS AND A HOUSE INSPECTION REPORT WERE SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT. DETAILING SOME OF THE FINDINGS AND THE REASON THAT THIS IS BEING HEARD BY THE HAAB IS THAT ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS ARE BEING PROPOSED FOR REPLACEMENT THAT ARE IN A NEW DESIGN, OR DOES NOT MEET THE CRITERIA FOR IN-KIND REPLACEMENT. THE HOUSE WAS ALSO REVIEWED PREVIOUSLY IN 2018 BY THE BOARD FOR FULL DEMOLITION. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN BEFORE YOU MULTIPLE TIMES OR DIFFERENT MEMBERS. SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WERE RECEIVED WITH THOSE LEGAL NOTICES WAS THE CONCERN OF HOW THE HOUSE, THE PROPOSED PARTIAL DEMOLITION, WOULD PLAY INTO THE DESIGN OF THIS LATE VICTORIAN ERA BUILDING, BECAUSE

[00:55:07]

AND IT LOOKS LIKE AT THAT POINT THE WINDOW OPENINGS WERE DECREASED IN SIZE. SO YOU MIGHT WANT TO HELP GUIDE THE APPLICANT IF YOU'D RATHER THEM GO BACK WITH THE LARGER OPENINGS THAT YOU CAN KIND OF SEE IN THIS, THE SIDING THAT EXISTS. THERE'S ALSO A PROPOSAL TO REPLACE THE NON-HISTORIC FRONT DOOR, WHICH WOULD BE ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVABLE ALSO TO REPLACE ALL THE WOOD NOVELTY SIDING WITH HARDIE FIBER CEMENT LAP SIDING. AND SO THAT IS A DIFFERENT DESIGN ELEMENT. WE NEED TO VERIFY THE SPECIFIED WIDTH AND REVEAL OF THE PROPOSED SIDING. THE FRONT PORCH IS PROPOSED TO BE REBUILT TO CODE SIMILAR TO SIZE AND MATERIALS, AND ADDING THE FRONT STEPS, AND THEN TO DEMOLISH AND REBUILD A REAR WING AND SIMILAR SIZE AND CONFIGURATION AS EXISTING TO STUCCO OVER EXISTING NEWER PIERS THAT WERE ADDED WHEN THE HOUSE WAS ELEVATED, AND TO ADD A NEW DECK ADJACENT TO THE REAR WING. SO, AS I NOTED IN THE STAFF REPORT, THIS DOES DIFFER FROM THE 2021 APPROVED PARTIAL DEMOLITION APPLICATION, WHERE AT THAT TIME, LARGE PORTIONS OF THE OVERALL EXISTING HISTORIC HOUSE WAS PROPOSED FOR DEMOLITION. THAT APPLICANT PROPOSED BASICALLY THE WHOLE SECOND STORY TO BE REMOVED, AND LARGE PORTIONS OF THE DIFFERENT ELEVATIONS TO BE REMOVED BECAUSE OF THE EXISTING CONDITIONS. THIS APPLICANT BASICALLY IS PROPOSING FOR ALL EXTERIOR ELEMENTS TO BE REPLACED. HOWEVER, SO WHILE THE PROPOSED PLANS INCLUDE ELEMENTS THAT MAY BE SIMILAR TO THE EXISTING HOUSE, THE RESULTING BUILDING MAY STILL LOOK LIKE NEW CONSTRUCTION WITH WHOLESALE REPLACEMENT OF SIDING, NEW WINDOWS, AND OTHER EXTERIOR FEATURES BEING REPLACED. SO OUR STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS BASED ON A REVIEW OF THE A G P DISCUSSIONS AT PAST REVIEWS BY THE HARB, INCLUDING A PREVIOUSLY APPROVED AND NOW EXPIRED CERTIFICATE OF PARTIAL DEMOLITION APPLICATION AND WITHOUT THE SUPPORT OF EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, STAFF FINDS THAT THE BOARD CAN TAKE THE FOLLOWING ACTIONS FOR CERTIFICATE OF PARTIAL DEMOLITION AT 160 ONEIDA STREET TO APPROVE. IF THE HARB DETERMINES THAT DETAILS ON THE PROPOSED PROJECT, SCOPE AND REPLACEMENT ELEMENTS HAVE BEEN ADEQUATELY SPECIFIED AND ARE APPROPRIATE AS PROPOSED OR MODIFIED BY THE BOARD BECAUSE THEY MAINTAIN THE HISTORIC CHARACTER AND INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE AND ARE COMPATIBLE WITH THE HISTORIC STRUCTURES.

BUILDING ENVELOPE OR THE REMOVAL WILL NOT COMPROMISE THE OVERALL HISTORIC CHARACTER AND INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE, AND THAT THEY MEET THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS FOR REHABILITATION NUMBER NINE AS A COMPATIBLE CONTEMPORARY DESIGN, WITH THE CONDITION TO SALVAGE ANY SIGNIFICANT BUILDING MATERIALS THAT REMAIN IN GOOD CONDITION. THIS CONCLUDES THE STAFF PRESENTATION WILL BE AVAILABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.

ALL RIGHT. WE CAN HAVE THE APPLICANT COME BACK UP. YOU CAN ADD TO THAT STAFF REPORT AND

[01:00:03]

YOUR APPLICATION.

THERE WAS SOME QUESTION ABOUT THE ROOFING MATERIAL. SO I WANTED TO BRING THAT IN. SO BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO PUT THAT INTO THE INTO THE PORTAL. AND ALSO THE, THE, THE MUNTINS ARE EXTERNAL. THEY'RE ACTUALLY EXTERNAL GRILLS FOR THE TWO OVER TWO WINDOW STYLE.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU'D LIKE TO ADD TO THAT STAFF REPORT AT THIS TIME? BEFORE WE GO INTO THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND HAVE A BOARD DISCUSSION? NOT REALLY. I MEAN, THE IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD. THE HOUSE IS IN PRETTY TERRIBLE CONDITION, AND WITH A LOT OF WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO MAKE ITSELF WELL. SO I THINK THE THE PLANS KIND OF SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. WE DID AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO TRY AND MIMIC THE STYLE OF THE OF THE PROPERTY. I BELIEVE AT ONE TIME THE, THE PREVIOUS SUBMISSIONS FROM THE PREVIOUS OWNER WAS HAD SOME ADDITIONS ON AND TOOK SOME REMOVED SOME PARTS OF THE BUILDING. AND IF YOU LOOK AT OUR PLAN, YOU CAN SEE THAT THE FACADE IS LARGELY THE SAME. THE SIZE OF THE WINDOWS ARE, ARE, ARE ARE APPROXIMATELY THE SAME. THE. WE ARE MOVING TO A HARDIE BOARD SIDING, BUT THERE WAS NO WAY TO SAVE THE THE WOOD SIDING THAT WAS THERE. FROM THE INSPECTION REPORTS, YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S SIGNIFICANT WATER DAMAGE. TERMITE DAMAGE. AND WE JUST I WOULD SAY LIKE 90% OF THAT WOOD IS ROTTED. AND THE PLANS CALL FOR REPLACEMENT OF ALL THAT. AND WITH SHEATHING WITH A VAPOR BARRIER, BECAUSE THERE'S NO VAPOR BARRIER RIGHT NOW. IT'S JUST WOOD ON TOP OF STUDS. AND NEEDLESS TO SAY, WE THEY WOULDN'T SIGN OFF ON.

GOING BACK WITH LIKE A WOOD SIDING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ONCE THERE'S NO VAPOR BARRIER TO, IT'S GOING TO ATTRACT TERMITES AGAIN. SO WHAT WHAT ARE YOU SALVAGING FOR IN THIS HOUSE? WHAT WILL BE EXISTING TO TO REMAIN THAT YOU KNOW OF AT THIS TIME? I'M NOT SURE. I MEAN WE CAN KEEP THE MATERIALS THAT THAT WE REMOVE, BUT NONE OF IT IS. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU'RE YOU'RE REUSING LIKE FRAMING OR STRUCTURE OR FOUNDATIONS OR WELL, OR, YOU KNOW, WALL STUDS, WHAT'S ROOF FRAMING? WHAT I GUESS IN THE SCOPE OF THIS PROJECT, WHAT ARE WE SAVING OR WHAT ARE WE REUSING? OKAY. SO A LOT OF THE FRAMING IN THE HOUSE CAN IS SALVAGEABLE, BUT A LOT OF IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE REPLACED BECAUSE OF TERMITE DAMAGE. SO WE'RE GOING TO USE AS MUCH AS MUCH OF THE THE WOOD AS POSSIBLE. THAT'S THAT'S THERE IN TERMS OF THE, THE STRUCTURE, BUT THE SIDING AND, YOU KNOW, AND THE ROOF, THE ROOF, I BELIEVE THOSE THE ENGINEER CALLED FOR NEW TRUSSES, BUT WE'RE WE'RE KEEPING THE SAME STYLE, THE HIP ROOF STYLE THAT THAT'S THERE CURRENTLY IS THE ROOF PROPOSED ROOF PITCH THE SAME AS WHAT IT WAS EXISTING IN THE PLATE HEIGHTS THE SAME AS WHAT WAS EXISTING. I BELIEVE IT'S VERY SIMILAR. I COULD GET MORE INFORMATION ON THAT, BUT I THINK FROM THE PICTURES YOU CAN SEE IT'S VERY SIMILAR IN TERMS OF THE PITCH. HOW LONG HAS THIS HOUSE BEEN VACANT OR NOT OCCUPIED? LONG TIME. I COULDN'T BEGIN TO TELL YOU. THE PREVIOUS OWNERS, THEY DIDN'T OCCUPY IT.

IT COULD BE DECADES. I'M NOT SURE. OKAY, STAFF, DO YOU HAVE ANY OR BOARD? DO YOU HAVE ANY

[01:05:03]

OKAY. WELL, MISTER CHAIR HAS ASKED A FEW QUESTIONS ON THE I REMEMBER THE PREVIOUS HEARINGS.

I MEAN, THIS HOUSE IS IN ROUGH SHAPE, SO PLEASE PUT IT BACK TOGETHER BECAUSE WE'VE APPROVED THIS AND NOTHING HAPPENED AND IT CONTINUES TO DECAY. YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT THE SIDING AND THE LEVEL OF TERMITE DAMAGE IN THE BUILDING. I REMEMBER THAT FROM THE LAST TWO HEARINGS THAT WE HAD. ONE, I THINK WAS THE DENIAL, BECAUSE IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN PRIMARILY A DEMOLITION. THEN WE HAD CAME BACK WITH A PLAN NOT DISSIMILAR TO YOURS. AND, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE GOING TO REDO THE BUILDING. NOTHING HAPPENED. AND IT CONTINUES TO SIT THERE DECAYING.

SO OUR GRATITUDE FOR YOU TAKING THIS ON BECAUSE IT'S A BIG PROJECT YOU TAKE ON. YES. AND I THINK I'LL SPEAK FOR MYSELF, BUT I THINK ALSO FOR THE BOARD, I DON'T THINK THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH THE WINDOW DECAY. YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF ALUMINUM WINDOWS IN THE BUILDING. WE'D VERY MUCH LIKE TO REPLICATE SIZES WHERE POSSIBLE. SOME OF THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS BECAME SMALLER THAN THE ORIGINAL OPENINGS. IF THEY COULD GO BACK TO ORIGINAL SIZE, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY A PLUS. MOST OF THE WINDOWS IN THE BUILDING APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN TWO OVER TWOS, WHICH, IF YOU GET THE RIGHT VINYL WINDOW WITH THE CORRECT MOUNTAIN PROFILE, YOU COULD ACHIEVE THAT. BEAR IN MIND EGRESS. YOU'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF BEDROOMS. I NOTICED UPSTAIRS YOU'VE GOT A 350 WINDOW. I THINK IT MIGHT BE THE MASTER. IT'S IN THE BACK AND A FIXED WINDOW. I'M GOING TO GET TO THE FIXED WINDOW IN A MINUTE. 3050 DOES NOT NOT MEET EGRESS. 3054 DOES. IT'S GOING TO MATTER WHEN YOU GO TO DO YOUR PERMITTING. OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL BUDDY SHORELAND WILL PICK YOU UP ON THOSE. JUST TRYING TO SAVE YOU SOME AGGRO GOING FORWARD. I THINK ALL IN ALL, YOUR INTENT IS TO REHAB THE BUILDING AS IT WAS BUILT, WHICH IS VERY COMMENDABLE. I DID NOTICE SOME WINDOWS COMING OUT, SO I'M GOING TO RUN THEM BY ELEVATION ON THE REAR ELEVATION DOWNSTAIRS. THEY HAD TO HAVE BEEN TWO WINDOWS THERE. I SEE WHY YOU'VE DONE WHAT YOU'VE DONE. THERE'S A DOOR GOING TO A PORCH AND THEN A BIG BLANK WALL DOWNSTAIRS BECAUSE THERE'S A KITCHEN THERE, MAYBE A WINDOW OVER THE KITCHEN SINK. IT WOULD HELP TO BREAK THAT REAR FACADE UP RIGHT ABOVE THAT. THIS WOULD BE ON THE REAR. IT'S ON THE REAR ELEVATION, SO IT'S NOT THE MOST SEEN. THERE'S A FIXED LIGHT UP HIGH AND I REALIZE IT'S A BEDROOM. I KNOW WHY IT WAS DONE. THAT PROBABLY IS A CASE WHERE THERE SHOULD BE TWO TWO OVER TWOS, PROBABLY FLANKING THE BED. I KNOW YOU'VE GOT A BATHROOM AT ONE END, SO YOU HAVE TO GET IT IN BALANCE.

AND THEN THE ONE AROUND THE CORNER POTENTIALLY COULD BE THE BIGGER WINDOW IF YOU NEEDED IT FOR EGRESS. OR YOU COULD MAKE THE TWO UP TOP EGRESS. THAT WAS IT ON THE BACK OF THE BUILDING AND LEFT ELEVATION, WHICH WOULD BE SOUTH. THIS IS RELATED TO THE STAIR SHAFT AND THE PORCH.

YOU AGAIN HAVE A BEDROOM DOWNSTAIRS. YOU'VE GOT A WINDOW GOING TO A LIVING ROOM. TO THE LEFT IS A DOOR GOING IN ON THE UPSTAIRS BALCONY. YOU HAVE A DOOR GOING IN AND THE WINDOW DISAPPEARED ABOVE, WHICH DOESN'T LOOK RIGHT BECAUSE OF THE SYMMETRY OF THE HOUSE. IT'S A BEDROOM YOU COULD ENTERTAIN. PUTTING THE WINDOW BACK IN. IT LETS LIGHT IN. IT'S TWO A PORCH WHICH IS ACCESSIBLE FROM INSIDE THE BUILDING, BUT YOU CAN ALWAYS HAVE DRAPES OR BLINDS TO PROTECT IT FOR PRIVACY FROM THE BEDROOM. SO I WOULD KEEP THAT WINDOW. THE STAIRS ARE AWKWARD TOO. I KNOW WHY YOU LOST WINDOWS THERE. AT THE VERY LEAST I WOULD TRY AND GET. I'M GOING TO GO DOWNSTAIRS FIRST. YOU'RE COMING UP ONTO A LANDING ON YOUR PLAN. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET A WINDOW COMMENSURATE WITH THE SIZE OF THE ONE TO THE LEFT OF THAT FACADE, IN THE SAME PLACE IT WOULD EFFECTIVELY BE. IN THE LANDING OF THE STAIRS. YOU TURN AND GO UP. YOU'RE IN THE BUILDING AND THERE'S A WINDOW. WHEN YOU GET TO THE TOP OF THE STAIRS. I'M NOT SURE WHY THE WINDOW WAS TAKEN OUT ON THE OTHER END. THE ONLY CONFLICT I COULD SEE WAS THE AC CLOSET. CORRECT? CORRECT. YOU KNOW YOUR PLAN. THAT'S GOOD, BECAUSE I'M GOING FAST. IF THE AC CLOSET IS AN ISSUE AND IT'S GOT TO GO THERE, YOU COULD LOOK AT RELOCATION SO YOU COULD GET TWO WINDOWS. I WOULD RECOMMEND PUTTING A WINDOW IN THERE, BLACKING OUT THE BACK OF IT SO THAT IT LOOKS CORRECT FROM OUTSIDE. I THINK YOU WOULD HAVE THE HOUSE LARGELY BACK TO WHAT IT WAS WITHOUT ENORMOUS EXPENSE. I'LL BE HAPPY TO LOOK AT THAT, BUT I KNOW THAT'S WHY WE LOST THAT WINDOW UP THERE. WAS THAT THE AIR HANDLER? THERE WAS JUST

[01:10:05]

MAKE IT NICE. I KNOW YOU WILL. YOU'RE SAYING THE WINDOW IN THE IN THE AIR HANDLER ROOM, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? WELL, YOU WOULD YOU WOULD INSTALL A WINDOW PLYWOOD, PAINT THE PLYWOOD BLACK, YOU BLACK OUT, BLACK IT OUT FROM INSIDE AND THEN DRYWALL RIGHT OVER THE TOP.

YOU PUT YOUR AC CLOSET IN. YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW THERE'S A WINDOW IN THERE. UPSTAIRS, IT'S AN AC CLOSET, BUT FROM OUTSIDE YOU WOULD SEE A WINDOW. AND THAT ELEVATION IT. TRUST ME, IT'LL MAKE THE HOUSE LOOK BETTER. AND THAT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU. FOR RESALE TOO. I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS THAT I WANT TO JUST JUMP INTO. SO. I SAW YOU BOUGHT A DIFFERENT ROOF FROM FIVE. I'M ASSUMING YOU WERE LOOKING AT THIS. I CAN HEAR YOU SAY IT AGAIN. THIS WAS JUST HANDED OUT. OH YEAH. THAT'S THE THE, THE ROOFING MATERIALS, WHICH ARE THE STANDING SEAM ROOF. THE APPLICATION STATES FIVE V, WHICH IS A HISTORICALLY CORRECT ROOFING FOR THIS HOUSE. I THINK THAT IS TOO MODERN FOR THIS HOUSE. I'M ONE OPINION THE BOARD CAN HAVE A DIFFERING OPINION. SO I WOULD PERSONALLY NOT BE IN FAVOR OF THAT ROOF.

I'LL SIGN ON TO FIVE V IN A HEARTBEAT. THAT THAT IS CORRECT FOR THE BUILDING ON THE WINDOWS TWO OVER TWO VINYL. I ALREADY COVERED THE CASING. DETAILS ARE IMPORTANT. YOU MIGHT HAVE QUITE A LOT OF THAT EXISTING. I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHAPE IT'S IN, BUT JUST MAKE SURE WHEN THEY'RE PUT TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE YOUR VERTICAL LEG, YOUR HEAD AND A SILL. MAKE SURE THAT THAT LOOK IS RIGHT BECAUSE IT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE TO HOW THE WINDOW LOOKS. HAVE YOU DONE QUITE A BIT OF THIS? NO. NORMALLY I DON'T TAKE ON HISTORICAL PROPERTIES. I'M A REAL ESTATE INVESTOR. YOU PICK ONE DIDN'T YOU AREA. SO I DON'T I DON'T REALLY TAKE ON THIS TYPE OF PRODUCT. THIS IS SOMETHING FOR ME AND MY FAMILY. OKAY, WELL THAT'S WONDERFUL.

I'M JUST SO PLEASED YOU'RE WILLING TO TAKE IT ON. IF YOU ARE NOT SURE, STAFF ARE ALWAYS AVAILABLE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS, AND CASING DETAILS ARE IMPORTANT. I'VE GOT A FEELING THIS MAY COME BACK. I DON'T WANT TO HOLD YOU UP BECAUSE YOU WANT TO GET THIS BUILDING FIXED, BUT THINGS LIKE CASING DETAILS. I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME DRAWINGS. WE HAVE ARCHITECTS ON THE BOARD WHO I KNOW ARE GOING TO FEEL FAIRLY STRONGLY SO WE CAN SEE WHAT YOUR INTENTION IS.

CORRECTING THE OPENINGS. WE COVERED ALL THE SIDINGS. GOT TO GO. I KNOW IT'S IN BAD SHAPE.

THE REPLACEMENT IN HARDY IS NOT OUR FAVORITE, BUT YOU ARE OUTSIDE OF A DISTRICT, SO THAT IS A POSSIBILITY. THE ISSUE WITH HARDY PRIMARILY IS THE SHADOW LINE. IT'S ONLY A QUARTER OF AN INCH THICK. THEY DO AN ARTISAN PRODUCT, WHICH I JUST PUT ON A BUILDING AT 16 CINCINNATI. IT'S AN ADDITION TO A BUILDING. HAVE A LOOK AT THAT. YOU NEED A HIGHER PRESSURE GUN TO SHOOT IT, BUT IT'S THE THICKER MATERIAL. IT GOES ON. IT'S STRONG AS CAN BE. IT'S JUST LIKE HARDY. IT DOESN'T ROT. BUT YOUR SHADOW LINES CORRECT. INSTEAD OF A QUARTER INCH, YOU HAVE THAT 5/8. SO THE SHADOWS ON THE BUILDING LOOK CORRECT TO THE OLD BUILDING. SO THAT'S SOMETHING YOU SHOULD CONSIDER AS WELL. IT'S NOT CHEAP. WELL THAT WAS MY QUESTION. WELL, THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE IS, YOU KNOW WOOD. AND THEN YOU'RE TALKING WHAT WOOD YOU'RE NOT GOING TO DO PINE BECAUSE IT ROTS. CYPRESS IS OUTRAGEOUS. AND WHAT ABOUT THE BORAL. THAT'S INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE. IT'S IT'S MORE THAN THE ARTISAN. YEAH, YEAH. THE ONLY OTHER WAY THAT'S A POSSIBILITY WOULD BE TO DO A SHIPLAP AND PRESSURE TREATED WELL, NOT A SHIPLAP, BUT YOU ACTUALLY DO A LAP SIDING. BUT IF YOU DO THAT, YOU WIND UP WITH A THREE QUARTER JUST SHY ON THE BOTTOM. THAT'S REASONABLY PRICED BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU SEE THE LAP SIDING. IT'S OUTRAGEOUSLY EXPENSIVE. I'M TRYING TO GUIDE YOU TO OPTIONS THAT ARE REASONABLE. AND I'M NOT TOTALLY OPPOSED TO HARDY, BUT I DO KNOW THE SHADOW LINES A PROBLEM.

WE'VE GOT PLENTY OF IT IN TOWN, SO IT'S NOT LIKE WE DON'T HAVE PRECEDENT, BUT IT'S PREFERRED LOOKS I WANT I WANT YOU TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS VERY MUCH. I WOULD THE OTHER THING I WOULD RECOMMEND ON THE PEERS, I WOULD DO A BRICK VENEER. AND THEY ACTUALLY MAKE THAT IN SHEETS THAT YOU CAN PRETTY MUCH MASTIC ONTO THE PIER AND YOU GET THE BRICK LOOK. IT WOULD BE MORE CORRECT FOR THE AGE OF THE HOUSE. THEY DID STUCCO PEERS BACK THEN TOO, BUT THEY USUALLY WERE BRICK. THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT WAS THERE. THAT'S NOT A DEAL BREAKER THAT COULD GO

[01:15:03]

IS DOES HARDY MAKE A NOVELTY TYPE SIDING? I THOUGHT IT WAS TOO THIN BECAUSE I WOULDN'T BE OPPOSED TO THAT, BUT I HATE THAT THAT THAT SIDING CAN'T BE REBUILT SOMEHOW. THERE'S THERE'S. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ALL OF THAT SIDING IS BAD TO ME. AND IT LOOKS. I JUST WOULD LIKE SOMEONE TO MAKE AN EFFORT AND REALLY DO HISTORIC PRESERVATION. GET GUIDELINES FROM THE FLORIDA FLORIDA HISTORIC PRESERVATION GUIDELINES. FOLLOW THAT FOR ONCE. AND SO MANY OF THESE HOUSES JUST WE WE APPROVE THEM. AND THEY JUST TO ME, THEY JUST NEVER READ. RIGHT. ANYWAY, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. I DON'T WANT TO. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE? YES. COME ON UP. IF YOU CAN STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND GET SWORN IN. FOR THE RECORD, MY NAME IS GREG GOWANS. I LIVE AT 162 ONEIDA STREET. DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? YES. I LIVE DIRECTLY NEXT DOOR TO THIS HOUSE, AND I HAVE SINCE 2015. MY WIFE'S LIVED IN THIS IN OUR HOUSE SINCE 1983. SHE REMEMBERS WHEN THAT HOUSE WAS ACTUALLY OCCUPIED AND KNEW THE FAMILY THAT LIVED THERE. IT'S JUST BEEN ALLOWED TO DILAPIDATE THE PREVIOUS OWNER JUST LEFT IT OPEN. LET HOMELESS PEOPLE LIVE THERE. IT'S BEEN ALLOWED TO ROT.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IT COME BACK. HARDY BOARD IS CRAP. YOU ALL KNOW IT, I KNOW IT. LET'S GET IT BACK TO HISTORIC. LET'S PUT NOVELTY SIDING BACK ON. I REDID MY HOUSE. I HAD CUSTOM MILLED CEDAR PUT ON GRANITE. I DIDN'T HAVE TO DO THE WHOLE HOUSE. HE KNEW HOW BAD THIS WAS WHEN HE BOUGHT IT, SO HE KNOWS WHAT THE EXPENSE SHOULD BE. THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS THAT I HAVE TO LOOK OUT AND SEE. YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE OLD ONES USED TO BE, AND THEY FILLED IN THE GAPS SO IT CAN BE DONE CORRECTLY. YEAH, I UNDERSTAND IT'S GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE, BUT MY WORRY IS, YOU KNOW, HE JUST HAD A BUNCH OF TREES TRIMMED. THEY WERE IN THE PICTURES THAT YOU GUYS SAW AND THEY'RE JUST LEFT THERE. THEY'VE BEEN SITTING THERE FOR FOUR WEEKS AND I HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT. ALL THE NEIGHBORS HAVE TO LIVE WITH IT. THEY HAVEN'T BEEN PICKED UP BECAUSE HE TRIMMED ALL THE TREES. THEY'RE JUST IN THE FRONT YARD. SO MY QUESTION, MY WORRY IS IF THAT'S HOW HE'S STARTING, WHAT'S IT GOING TO BE GOING FORWARD? ONCE WE START APPROVING THINGS, WHAT'S GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO SLIDE? YOU KNOW, I LIKE I SAID, I DON'T WANT TO LOOK AT IT ANYMORE. MOST OF THE CITY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THIS HOUSE WAS THERE FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE IT WAS SO OVERGROWN. MY WIFE CALLED IT IN. THEY FINALLY CAME AND TRIMMED IN, FORCED THE TO BE, YOU KNOW, TRIMMED BACK BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T EVEN SEE THE HOUSE FROM THE ROAD BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY TREES. BUT THAT THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, ALMOST TEN YEARS AGO THAT WAS FINALLY TRIMMED. SO I THINK IT, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT IT, THE WHOLE HOUSE NEEDS TO BE COMPLETELY DONE. THERE'S NO INTERIOR. THERE'S NO STAIRS GOING IN. THE DOORS ARE ACTUALLY INTERIOR DOORS ON THE OUTSIDE. BUT, YOU KNOW, I KNOW I REDID MY HOUSE BACK DURING COVID AND IT WAS EXPENSIVE. AND THIS NEEDS A LOT MORE WORK THAN MINE DID. AND YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A SPECIAL PERSON TO DO IT. SO LET'S, YOU KNOW, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY. THE REST OF THE HOMES IN THAT AREA HAVE BEEN DONE TO, YOU KNOW, NOT ALWAYS TO WHAT WE WANT, BUT

[01:20:05]

WHO ELSE. ANYONE ELSE ON BEHALF OF THIS PROJECT. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND OFFICIALLY OPEN IT UP FOR OUR BOARD DISCUSSION. MR. MCDONALD, ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD TO WHAT YOU KIND OF STARTED WITH? WELL, I DID TAKE A NOTE THERE BECAUSE WE THIS IS DEMOLITION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, ISN'T IT REALLY? IT COULD EXCEED THE PARTIAL DEMOLITION IF YOU. SO WE DO HAVE PURVIEW ON THE REBUILD FOR PARTIAL DEMOLITION. YES. THE NEW ORDINANCE THAT IS IN PLACE NOW, WHEN IT WAS APPROVED IN 2021, THE ORDINANCE WAS NOT IN PLACE YET. SO YOU REALLY ONLY COULD APPROVE WHAT WAS BEING REMOVED, NOT THE REPLACEMENT. SO SINCE THE PARTIAL DEMOLITION ORDINANCE HAS BEEN APPROVED, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE REPLACEMENT DESIGN AND MATERIALS, MAKE SURE THE SIZES MATCH THE DETAILING MATCHES. OKAY. TO ANSWER THE QUESTION ABOUT NOVELTY, THEY DO NOT MAKE IT IN HARDY. THEY DO MAKE IT IN BULL BALLS. VERY EXPENSIVE. SO YOU'RE CHEAPER. OPTION WOULD BE PINE UNLESS YOU BUILD IT IN CYPRESS, WHICH OBVIOUSLY COSTS MORE. THOSE WOULD BE OPTIONS IN WOOD. IT SEEMS THAT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF EFFORT TO REHAB BUILDINGS ON ONEIDA. THESE TWO GENTLEMEN. I THINK CASES OF THAT MANY OF THESE BUILDINGS, PEOPLE HAVE GONE TO CONSIDERABLE EXPENSE TO BRING THEM BACK THE WAY THEY SHOULD BE. IF THE WINDOWS ARE INDEED GONE, I DON'T SEE ANYTHING NECESSARILY WRONG WITH A VINYL WINDOW. IF THE LOOK IS RIGHT AND IT'S CASE PROPERLY, BUT THE WOOD ON THE BUILDING, MAYBE THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT. I'M ONE MEMBER ON THE BOARD. WHAT I DO KNOW IS WE NEED TO GET THIS HOUSE FIXED BECAUSE IT IS GETTING WORSE AND WORSE AND WORSE. IT'S GOING TO WIND UP BEING DEMOLISHED BY NEGLECT. THAT'S THAT'S WHERE THIS IS HEADED BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TIMELINE IS. 5 OR 6 YEARS. I'VE HEARD ALL THE DIFFERENT CASES BEFORE. AND, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE GONE THROUGH THE RESTRICTIONS OF, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC RESTORATION TO NOT ENTIRELY FAIR TO THEM. SO THAT'S REALLY ALL I CAN SAY TO ADD TO THAT. YOU KNOW, YOU SAY ALL THE SIDING IS GONE.

PICTORIAL EVIDENCE WOULD BE GOOD. ACTUAL PICTURES OF THE HOUSE SHOWING THE DAMAGE, SAME AS THE WINDOWS, YOU KNOW, SOME SORT OF REPORT SHOWING US INDIVIDUALLY BY NUMBERS, YOU KNOW, TAKE THE ELEVATIONS AND NUMBER THEM. WE'VE SORT OF GONE THROUGH THIS EXERCISE AT THE LAST DEMOLITION. SO I REMEMBER A LOT OF THAT AND HOW BAD THE CONDITION WAS. BUT WE'RE NOT SEEING IT IN THIS APPLICATION. THE MEMBERS ON THE BOARD HERE THAT DIDN'T SEE THAT. I KNOW YOU THREE. CERTAINLY NOT. YOU MIGHT HAVE. I'M NOT SURE. I THINK YOU PROBABLY DID.

PROBABLY. YES, I THINK YOU DID AS A LONG TIME AGO. ANYWAY, I'M GOING TO SHUT UP BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE NEED TO SPEAK TOO. OKAY. MISS POTTER, YES, I HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS. I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN A SIDE BY SIDE ILLUSTRATION OF THE EXISTING BUILDING AND WHAT THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE FOR THE FRONT, FOR THE BACK, FOR THE SIDES, SIMILAR TO WHAT WE SAW IN ONE OF THE EARLIER APPLICATIONS, JUST TO GET AN IDEA OF HOW MUCH OF THE ORIGINAL BUILDING WILL ACTUALLY REMAIN, WE'VE HEARD THAT SOME OF THE WINDOWS WILL BE REMOVED, OTHER THINGS WILL BE ADDED, SIZES WILL BE CHANGED, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE THAT IN FRONT OF ME TO COMPARE HOW MUCH THE CHANGE IS GOING TO BE, BECAUSE MY CONCERN IS HOW WILL THE ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY OF THE ORIGINAL BUILDING BE LOST WITH ALL OF THIS NEW CHANGE COMING ABOUT? SO THAT'S MY CONCERN. OKAY, THOSE ARE GOOD COMMENTS. I TEND TO AGREE THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE AN EXISTING VERSUS A NEW WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED. SO YOU CAN KIND OF SEE WHAT THE CHANGES WERE. AND IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT KIND OF STOOD OUT THAT ARE DIFFERENT. MR. BLAKE.

YEAH, SO DO YOU. WHAT IS WHAT ARE YOU PROPOSING ON YOUR SIDING? IS THIS WHOLESALE REPLACEMENT WITH ARTIE? IT HAS TO BE, YEAH. THERE'S HARDLY ANYTHING THAT'S SALVAGEABLE.

AND LIKE I SAID, MY ENGINEER UNDERSTANDS THIS. THIS BUILDING DID NOT HAVE A VAPOR BARRIER.

[01:25:04]

YOU KNOW, THE PROPERTY IS SITTING OPEN RIGHT NOW. THERE'S THERE'S A HOLE IN THE ROOF.

WATER IS GETTING IN. YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A SITUATION THAT, YOU KNOW, WE KEEP PUTTING IT OFF AND THERE'S THIS BUILDING MAY NOT BE SALVAGEABLE. WELL, TO PROTECT THE SHELL, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU COULD DO ROOFING AND WINDOWS AND DOORS. AND ARE YOU PLANNING TO PHASE THIS OR JUST DO EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE? WE PLAN TO DO EVERYTHING AT ONCE. OKAY. MISS DUNCAN, OKAY, SO SEVERAL THINGS. ONE OF THEM. TO ME, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURES IS THE WINDOW AT THE FRONT. THE BAY WINDOW. AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ONE OF THE MORE DECORATIVE, BEAUTIFUL DETAILS.

AND OF COURSE, IT'S EXPOSED TO THE STREET SO EVERYBODY CAN SEE IT. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME NICE DETAILING AND CASING AROUND THE WINDOWS AND ABOVE THE WINDOWS BANDYING AROUND. I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, REGARDING WHAT'S NEW AND WHAT'S OLD, IT SEEMS. NOW JUST TELL ME IF THIS IS TRUE. IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE KEEPING THE FOOTPRINT OF THE HOUSE, ESSENTIALLY. THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT. SO WE'RE NOT CHANGING THE HOUSE. AND IT SEEMS LIKE AS FAR AS THE WINDOWS, THERE'S JUST A FEW PLACES I NOTICED IN THE BACK THAT THE WINDOWS NOW ARE PUSHED TOWARDS THE CORNER, AND NOW YOU'RE PUTTING THEM CENTERED IN THE WALL, WHICH TO ME SEEMS FINE. YOU KNOW, THAT SEEMS LOGICAL AND IT PROBABLY LOOKS BETTER THAN WHAT IT IS NOW. SO I THINK MR. MCDONNELL'S COMMENTS ABOUT ADDING THE WINDOWS. SO I WAS THINKING, IF YOU'RE PUTTING ON NEW ROOF TRUSSES, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY WHEN YOU HAVE THOSE TRUSSES DESIGNED TO ADD AN ATTIC SPACE WITHIN THE TRUSS WHERE YOU COULD PUT YOUR HVAC UNIT UP IN THE ATTIC, AND THAT WAY YOU'RE NOT TAKING UP SPACE ON THE SECOND FLOOR. IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE WE HAD MUCH ROOM UP THERE. AND TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, I MEAN, THE PITCH IS, IS PRETTY, PRETTY LOW. IT'S TOO LOW, TOO LOW. AND I BELIEVE THE INTERIOR, THE INTERIOR HEIGHT IS CEILING HEIGHTS LIKE TEN FEET. SO THERE'S THERE'S NOT MUCH ROOM. IT'S NOT IDEAL TO I MEAN, IN TERMS OF ACCESS TO HAVE IT IN THE IN THE ATTIC, BECAUSE IT'D BE GREAT IF YOU COULD JUST PUT IT UPSTAIRS, YOU KNOW, AND, AND THEN IT'S NOT IN THE WAY. AND THEN YOU COULD PUT THE WINDOW IN THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT AND ADD LIGHT INTO THAT SECOND FLOOR, YOU KNOW, FROM THE STAIRS. IT'S JUST NICE TO HAVE THE BRIGHTNESS IN THE HOUSE, IT SEEMS. BUT THAT WAS JUST A THOUGHT. BUT I, I THINK, YOU KNOW, TO ME, RATHER THAN BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN EXPENSE TO GET THE ALL THE AS BUILT DRAWINGS DONE. BUT I FEEL LIKE EVEN JUST DRAWING MAYBE, I MEAN, AT THIS POINT, THE QUESTION IS, ARE WE GOING TO HOLD OFF THE APPLICATION TO GET A DRAWING TO TELL US, BECAUSE WE CAN KIND OF LOOK AT THE PHOTOS AND THE PLANS AND SEE WHERE THE WINDOWS ARE CHANGING? YES. I MEAN, THAT'S WE INCLUDED THE PLAN. SO YOU CAN SEE EACH ELEVATION AND YOU HAVE PICTURES FROM THE STAFF SHOWING THE CURRENT. YEAH. SO I'M JUST LIKE TO GO BACK AND REDRAW IT. I'M JUST WONDERING, BUT I DO THINK THE DETAILING TO ME THAT'S MORE IMPORTANT OF THINGS LIKE THE WINDOW CASING WOULD BE WHAT I THINK WOULD BE IMPORTANT. AND I THINK IF STAFF COULD MAYBE REVIEW THAT JUST TO MAKE SURE IT'S, I WOULD SAY MATCH EXISTING, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF IT. THE OTHER PIECE IS THE CORNER BOARDS AND THE CASING AROUND THE WINDOWS. YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE LESS EXPENSIVE TYPES OF SIDING'S WHEN THEY HAVE A COMPATIBLE CASING OR TRIM BOARD, IT'S REAL FLAT. I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS THE SHADE AND SHADOW LINE THAT YOU GET ON THE

[01:30:06]

ARTISANAL? YEAH. ARTISANAL ON THE FRONT. THE SHADOW LINE IS RIGHT. BUT THIS IS AS HE POINTS OUT, IT'S NOVELTY. THIS IS ACTUALLY NOT LAP SIDING. YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BUY IT IN BORAL.

IT'S OUTRAGEOUS. SO YOU'D BE DOING PINE. IF YOU DO PINE, IT'S A STEP PRIME IT AND PUT ONE COAT OF PAINT ON THE BACK OF IT. WHEN YOU INSTALL IT, PAINT YOUR ENDS. SO WE DON'T ALLOW HARDIE IN LINCOLNVILLE. I MEAN, THAT'S JUST THE QUESTION. MATERIAL ISN'T REALLY THE QUESTION. WITH THIS PARTIAL DEMOLITION ORDINANCE. IT HAS TO HAVE THE SAME DESIGN AND SCALE AND DETAILING. AND AS YOU STATED, HARDIE BOARD DOES NOT MAKE NOVELTY SIDING. RIGHT. SO THAT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE IN DESIGN. IF WE WANT TO BE TRUE TO THE DESIGN, PRETTY MUCH IT'S BORAL OR IT'S PINE NOVELTY, BOTH AVAILABLE. BUT BOYLE, I MEAN, I SPENT A FORTUNE TO GET BOYLE ON THIS. IT'S NOT FUNCTIONAL. SO YOU'D BE DOING PINE, WHICH WILL HOLD UP IF YOU PAINT IT. YOU'VE GOT TO PRIME IT AND PUT A COAT OF PAINT ON THE BACK. AND THE PIECE THAT PEOPLE MISS IS WHEN THEY CUT IT TO FIT IT. THEY DON'T PAINT THE END. IT ROTS FROM THE END GRAIN.

SO THERE'S A BIT OF LABOR IN SECURING THE MATERIAL TO MAKE IT HAVE MORE LONGEVITY. IS IT THE OLD MATERIAL? NO IT'S NOT. IT'S JUST NOT THE WOOD WE USED TO HAVE. BUT WITH THOSE STEPS, YOU CAN GET LIFE OUT OF IT. THEN YOU'RE GOING BACK WITH WOOD AND IT WILL LOOK THE SAME.

IT'S A PRETTY IMPORTANT HOUSE. YEAH. I MEAN, THAT BUENA ESPERANZA DEVELOPMENT WAS SOME OF THE FINEST BUILDINGS IN LINCOLNVILLE WERE BUILT RIGHT IN THIS AREA. AND SOME OF THEM, THESE GENTLEMEN THAT TALKED, THEY OBVIOUSLY HAVE SOME OF THOSE HOUSES THAT HAVE BEEN REHABBED. THEY HAVE VALUE BECAUSE THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL. YEAH. AND THIS THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL HOUSE TOO. SO I THINK IT CAN HAVE VALUE. ANYWAY, I'LL STOP AGAIN. SORRY. WELL, I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TAKING. YOU KNOW THIS PROJECT ON IT'S GOING TO BE A BEAUTIFUL HOUSE WHEN WE'RE ALL DONE WITH IT. I GUESS SOME OF MY COMMENTS WERE KIND OF MAKING SURE WE MATCHED THE PLATE HEIGHTS AND THE ROOF PITCHES THAT ARE THERE NOW KIND OF KEEP CONSISTENT, WHICH I THINK WE ARE CLOSE, BUT WE JUST NEED TO CONFIRM OR YOU NEED TO CONFIRM THAT WE'RE MATCHING KIND OF THE PLATE HEIGHTS AND THE, AND THE, THE ROOF PITCHES. I AGREE WITH THE, THE SIDING MATCHING THE SIDING ON THE FRONT ELEVATION AND MAYBE DOING A DIFFERENT HARDIE SIDING ON THE SIDES. AND THEN THE WOOD WINDOW ON THE FRONT. OR JUST TO CLARIFY, MY COMMENT

[01:35:03]

YEAH. BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO GET RID OF ALUMINUM AND YOU'RE GOING TO PUT SOMETHING IN.

THAT'S AN IMPROVEMENT. I COULD GO ALONG WITH THAT IF IT WAS PUT TOGETHER CORRECTLY WITH THE CASEMENT. I AGREE, I AGREE WITH THAT. THE SECOND COMMENT WAS THE WOOD SIDING OVER THE HARDIE.

YES. AND IF IT'S NOVELTY, YOU'RE STUCK WITH PINE BASED ON COST. I MEAN, COULD COULD YOU DO THAT JUST ON THE FRONT ELEVATION AND THEN ON THE SIDES. I MEAN THAT THAT WOULD BE A COMPROMISE. INSTEAD OF DOING IT AROUND THE ENTIRE HOUSE, KIND OF DOING THE HARDIE MATERIAL IN THE BACK AND THE SIDES AND HAVING THE NOVELTY ON THE FRONT, AND IT'S TRIMMED AND IT'S SEPARATED BY THE VERTICAL TRIM PIECES AT THE CORNERS. AND IT AND WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM THE STREET VIEW. YOU SEE A BEAUTIFUL ELEVATION THAT WE ALL LIKE. AND IT'S WHAT WAS INTENDED FOR THE, YOU KNOW, PURPOSE OF THIS HOUSE. I WOULD POINT OUT THE NORTH ELEVATION OF THIS HOUSE, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, IS WIDE OPEN FROM SOUTH STREET. YOU CAN SEE IT.

YEAH. YOU CAN, YOU CAN LOOK RIGHT THROUGH THERE. THE HOUSE. YEAH. IT'S JUST REALLY VISIBLE ON TWO SIDES. NOW, THE OTHER SIDES ARE RELATED TO OUR SPEAKERS HERE. THE PEOPLE WHO SPOKE. SIR, I ON THIS IDEA, I THINK YOU GOT TO COMMIT TO ONE OR THE OTHER. ONE OR THE OTHER.

I THINK IT WOULD BE WEIRD TO MIX IT UP. OKAY, WELL, NOVELTY IS REASONABLY PRICED. IT'S JUST THE MATERIAL. YOU'VE GOT TO PROTECT THE MATERIAL, THE LABOR THAT COSTS. WELL, YEAH, THEY'VE GOT TO PAINT IT. WELL, I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER CHANGES YOU RECOMMEND OR DEMAND, I HAVE TO GO BACK AND GET PRICING. AND YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT GET TO YOU SEE, YOU SEE WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO THAT HOUSE. WE'RE ALMOST REBUILDING THAT WHOLE HOUSE. SO, YOU KNOW, IT MIGHT GET TO THE POINT WHERE FINANCIALLY IT MIGHT NOT MAKE SENSE, RIGHT? I'M DOING BASED ON WHAT MY ENGINEER HAS SUGGESTED TO BE DONE, TO BRING IT INTO CODE, TO MAKE IT HABITABLE. AND, YOU KNOW, WE'VE DONE ALMOST EVERYTHING WE COULD TO MAKE IT LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME AS, AS WHAT WAS PREVIOUS. I THINK THE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE ROOF MATERIALS, THE METAL, THE PICTURE THAT I SAW OF THE HISTORICAL HOUSE HAD METAL ROOF. OKAY, THERE'S ASPHALT ON THERE RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE EXPENSIVE FOR METAL, BUT WE'RE TAKING THAT ON.

BUT YOU GET TO THE POINT WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOU START TALKING ABOUT ADDING ON HARDWOOD FOR SIDING. IT GETS VERY EXPENSIVE. I MEAN, I'M SURE YOU DON'T WANT TO COME BACK HERE ANOTHER FIVE YEARS WITH A DIFFERENT OWNER TALKING ABOUT THIS SAME PROPERTY. IT MAY NOT LAST THAT LONG. SO THAT'S I MEAN, I WOULD SAY THAT EVEN IN HOUSES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT ON THE SECOND FLOOR IS WERE ALLOWING NON WOOD WINDOWS, YOU KNOW, THAT LOOK HISTORIC. SO TO ME FOR A LINCOLNVILLE THAT WE WOULD REQUIRE ON THE FRONT WOULD TO ME THE WINDOWS COULD HAVE A LOOK OF WOOD. YOU KNOW HE'S GOING TO PAINT THEM AND I THINK YOU KNOW A WINDOW THAT LOOKS HISTORIC YOU KNOW PAINTED TO ME IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING. THE LOOK OF IT FOR THIS AREA VERSUS THE MATERIAL BEING ACTUAL WOOD, LIKE WE REQUIRE IN THAT HISTORIC DISTRICTS, YOU KNOW, SO TO ME, I AGREE, I THINK WE CAN PUSH PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE MAYBE IN LINCOLNVILLE WHO, YOU KNOW, WANT TO INVEST IN THE HOME, BUT THEY, THEY'RE NOT IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICTS WHERE WE REQUIRE THOSE ORIGINAL MATERIALS. NOW, YOU KNOW, THE SIDING. I AGREE THE NOVELTY SIDING LOOKS GREAT. AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE WILL SAY, WELL, IT'S MORE EXPENSIVE, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT REALLY THAT MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE, YOU KNOW, SO I THINK REALLY LOOKING INTO THAT BECAUSE I THINK THE SIDING COULD MAKE ALL THE DIFFERENCE. YOU KNOW, IF YOU GET THE RIGHT SIDING IN PLACE, THAT TO ME, THERE COULD BE VALUE THERE TOO. YEAH. LIKE A VALUE, YOU KNOW, ADD. YEAH, IT WOULD ADD A LOT TO THE HOUSE AND VALUE TO THE HOUSE. SO THAT'S JUST, THAT'S KIND OF MY THOUGHT. NOW AS FAR AS THE ROOF, YOU SAID THAT THE ARCHITECTURAL SHINGLE, THE ASPHALT SHINGLE IS LESS EXPENSIVE OR MORE EXPENSIVE, LESS. SO TO ME, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T REALLY SEE YOUR ROOF TOO MUCH. I WOULD JUST GET THE ARCHITECTURAL SHINGLE AND PUT MY MONEY INTO THE SIDING. YOU

[01:40:03]

GREAT. BUT I THINK WITH THE HOUSE BEING RAISED THE WAY IT IS, THAT'S GOING TO MAKE IT LOOK VERY NICE. IT'S A GOOD THING, YOU KNOW. YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO LIKE THE SIDING. IT MAY NOT BE NOVELTY SIDING, BUT IT'S GOING TO BE SIDING ALL THE WAY UP. WE DIDN'T TRY TO BREAK IT UP WITH LIKE ANY TYPE OF LIKE BOARD AND BATTEN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WE'RE DOING EXACTLY THE SAME. WHAT'S THERE, YOU KNOW, WE TRIED TO GO BACK TO THE METAL ROOF, IF THAT'S ACTUALLY HISTORICAL, I'M NOT SURE, BUT WE DECIDED TO GO WITH THAT TO TRY AND MAKE IT LOOK, YOU KNOW WHAT IT WAS BASED ON THE HISTORICAL PICTURE THAT'S IN THE IN THE PACKAGE, IT MAY WELL HAVE HAD A SHINGLE CEDAR, CEDAR SHINGLE ROOF WHEN IT WAS BUILT. A LOT OF THE HOUSES AT THAT PERIOD HAD CEDAR SHAKES. THEN THE TOWN CAUGHT FIRE, AND THEY DECIDED THAT WASN'T SUCH A GOOD IDEA AND THEY GOT COVERED UP. YOU'LL OFTEN TAKE A METAL ROOF SNAPPED IN TILE, AND IT'S A BRAND NEW SHINGLE ROOF UNDERNEATH IT. YEAH. I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THE PICTURE THEY WON'T BE THERE WAS WAS ACCURATE. I'M NOT SURE. I KNOW THOSE WINDOWS ARE NOT ACCURATE.

THEY'RE ALL ALUMINUM, EXCEPT THAT THEY'VE ALL BEEN CHANGED, WHICH THAT GIVES YOU LATITUDE THAT'S IN YOUR FAVOR. I THINK THE FRONT ELEVATION IS CRITICAL, AND THAT'S WHY I SAY WOOD WINDOWS. THE. I'M GOING TO JUMP BACK TO GERALD WHEN THEY USE AN OIL BASED PRODUCT, WHICH IS A VERY SPECIFIC PRESSURE TREATED. THEY DON'T WHAT. SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE GOING BACK IN FIVE YEARS AND REPLACING A WOOD WINDOW. THERE ARE OTHER COMPANIES DO. AND I'M NOT HERE TO ADVERTISE WINDOW COMPANIES. COLBY. THESE ARE PRE-APPROVED BY THE HARDBOARD. COLBY AND COLBY DO A BEAUTIFUL WINDOW. VERY EXPENSIVE. GERALD. WIND'S GOING TO BE A BETTER BUY. MORE THAN LIKELY. BUT YOU DON'T NEED MANY. IT'S ONLY ON THE FRONT FACADE. AND I THINK I THINK THE BOARD WOULD BE WILLING TO GIVE LATITUDE ON THE SIDE AND THE REAR ELEVATION. SO YOU COULD GET INTO A VINYL. IT'S GOING TO SAVE YOU SOME MONEY ON THE WINDOWS, AND THEN TAKE THAT MONEY AND PUT IT BACK INTO NOVELTY. SOME OF THE NOVELTY YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO KEEP. BUT I UNDERSTAND THE SHEAR WALL AND THE VAPOR BARRIER. MY HOUSE DOESN'T HAVE ONE. A LOT OF HOUSES HERE WERE FRAMED, AND THEY PUT THE SIDING STRAIGHT ON THE BUILDING. SO YOU'RE RELYING ON PAINT AND CAULK TO STOP WATER COMING IN. DON'T FORGET HOUSES WEREN'T INSULATED BACK THEN, SO IT WASN'T A PROBLEM. WATER IN, WATER OUT THEY ARE NOW. SO IT IS A PROBLEM. SO I UNDERSTAND THAT IF YOU GO WOOD FOR WOOD, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY ON THIS BOARD, IN LIGHT OF THE CONDITION OF THE SIDING, WOULD HAVE AN ISSUE WITH YOU TAKING IT OFF, SHEETING THE BUILDING, PUTTING A VAPOR BARRIER ON AND PUTTING NEW WOOD ON BACK ON. YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SALVAGE SOME OF THE WOOD COMING OFF. DOUBTFUL BECAUSE IT'S DRY. IT'S BRITTLE. IT'S GOING TO WANT TO BREAK. BUT YOU MAY YOU MAY BE ABLE TO RECYCLE SOME OF IT BACK IN. IT'S A POSSIBILITY, BUT THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I SEE THE THE DRIFT OF THE BOARD HERE. AND I'M ALSO LISTENING TO COMMENT COMING FROM PEOPLE THAT HAVE GONE THE FULL MONTY WITH THESE THINGS. IT'S IT'S NOT CHEAP, BUT THE HOUSE BECOMES VERY VALUABLE WHEN IT'S DONE PROPERLY TOO. SO IT'S KIND OF A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD. AND I REALIZED FINANCE IS A FACTOR, BUT THAT IS ACTUALLY NOT. WE'RE SYMPATHETIC TO IT, BUT IT'S NOT PART OF OUR CONSIDERATION AS A BOARD. IT'S GOT TO BE EXTREME FINANCIAL HARDSHIP. AND, YOU KNOW, YOU TOOK ON A HOUSE THAT'S HISTORIC AND IT'S GOT TO BE REPAIRED IN A CERTAIN WAY. WHAT IS THE MOST COST EFFICIENT WAY OF GETTING TO AN ACCEPTABLE

[01:45:02]

I'VE SEEN PROPERTIES, YOU KNOW, ONE STREET OVER WITH ALL HARDIE BOARD. CAN YOU JUST PULL YOUR MICROWAVE UP AND MICROWAVE? OKAY, THAT'S MUCH BETTER. OKAY. I'VE SEEN OTHER PROPERTIES IN LINCOLNVILLE, IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH HARDIE BOARD. AND IT'S NOT IT'S NOT IT'S NOT THE FIRST TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED. AND I CAN TELL YOU IF IF IT GETS TO THE POINT WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE TOO EXPENSIVE, I'M NOT I JUST DROPPED THE WHOLE PROGRAM. THE WHOLE THE WHOLE PROJECT. SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT I'VE COME IN HERE WITH A REASONABLE PLAN TO SAVE THIS HOUSE. AND I APPRECIATE THE NEIGHBORS, BUT WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW IS IN TERRIBLE CONDITION. AND IT'S BEEN MAYBE TEN YEARS OR MORE, AND NO ONE HAS DONE ANYTHING WITH IT. SO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A FULL DEMOLITION, IT MIGHT BE THE WAY TO GO. I'M NOT SURE. I READ IT AS YOU'RE GETTING A PASS ON VINYL WINDOWS, WHICH IS A PRETTY MAJOR SAVINGS. AND THE COMPROMISES YOU'VE GOT TO GO BACK WOOD SIDING, ADDRESS THE WINDOWS PROPERLY, AND YOU HAVE A BUILDING THAT'S GOING TO LOOK CORRECT. AND THE WOOD SIDING OUTSIDE OF ITS LONGEVITY, WHICH IS OF COURSE WHY YOU WANT HARDIE WITH THE CORRECT PROTOCOL PAINTING PROTOCOL BEFORE YOU INSTALL IT. YOU WILL GET LIFE OUT OF THAT. YOU CAN'T PUT IT UP AND NOT PRIME THE BACKSIDE. YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT STEP. BUT THE ACTUAL PRODUCT IS NO MORE EXPENSIVE THAN HARDIE.

MAYBE A LITTLE LESS. SO I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT THE AREAS THAT AREN'T IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT HAVE DIFFERENT GUIDELINES. SO IF A HOUSE HAS NOVELTY SIDING AND THEY WANT, THEY NEED TO REPLACE IT. AND IT'S OUTSIDE ONE OF OUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS, IT HAS TO HAVE NEW WOOD SIDING. IS THAT CORRECT? NO, IT HAS TO HAVE APPROVAL BY THE HARBOR IF THE DESIGN DOES NOT MATCH. SO THE REPLACEMENT OR REPLACEMENT, IF THE DESIGN DOES NOT MATCH, THEN THE HARBOR HAS TO GIVE APPROVAL OR OTHERWISE WE COULD ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVE IT. IF IF HE CAME TO ME WITH HIS PLANS AND EVERYTHING MATCHED THE DESIGN, SIZE, SCALE, TEXTURE OF THE EXISTING AND I COULD HAVE ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED IT.

BUT BECAUSE THERE ARE FEATURES SUCH AS THE HARDY SIDING THAT DOES NOT MATCH, YOU KNOW, IT'S A LAP SIDING THAT DOES NOT LOOK THE SAME AS THE THE NOVELTY. AND HE STATED ABOUT OTHER HOUSES HAVING A HARDY SIDING IN LINCOLNVILLE, THE PARTIAL DEMOLITION ORDINANCE WAS PASSED IN 2024, SO BEFORE THAT, HARBOR COULD NOT LOOK AT THE PROPOSED REPLACEMENT MATERIAL. SO. AND NOT ALL HISTORIC HOUSES HAD NOVELTY SIDING. SOME OF HOUSES HAD LAP SIDING, LAP WOOD SIDING.

SO THERE ARE GOING TO BE HOUSES THAT YOU CAN POINT OUT DIFFERENT MATERIALS. AND THAT'S

[01:50:06]

BUILDING ENVELOPE OR THEIR REMOVAL WON'T COMPROMISE THE OVERALL HISTORIC CHARACTER AND INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE. AND THEN THE SECOND UNDER B IS THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR'S REHABILITATION COMPATIBLE CONTEMPORARY DESIGN. SO. SO THAT'S REALLY WHERE YOU WANT TO FOCUS IS IT'S REALLY ABOUT A MORE HOLISTIC LOOK AT THE INTEGRITY OF THE STRUCTURE AND THE COMPATIBILITY OF THE HISTORIC STRUCTURES BUILDING ENVELOPE. SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT DESIGN ELEMENTS OR THAT THEY'RE APPROPRIATE, COMPATIBLE CONTEMPORARY DESIGNS. SO IT'S NOT IT'S NOT INTENDED TO BE AS RIGID AS HP. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? SO IT'S LIKE THE METAL ROOF, WHICH WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF A METAL ROOF. CAN WE APPROVE THAT OR IT'S GOT SHINGLES NOW.

I THINK THERE IS A HISTORIC PART OF THE FLORIDA MASTER SITE FILE DOCUMENTATION. I THINK THERE IS. I'D HAVE TO LOOK BACK. BUT AND HE THE APPLICANT STATED THAT THAT THERE WAS A METAL ROOF AT ONE POINT. AND THAT'S COMMON FOR THESE BUILDINGS AFTER THEY HAD THE WOOD SHINGLES OR SOMETIMES THEY ONLY DID HAVE THE FIVE METAL ROOF. SO YOU HAVE TO DECIDE AS A BOARD IF YOU'RE ACCEPTING THE STANDING SEAM PANEL THAT HE IS PROPOSING THAT HE PASSED OUT TODAY. OKAY. BUT HE CAN CERTAINLY GO WITH THE ASPHALT SHINGLE BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IS EXISTING PERMISSION NOT TO CHANGE IT. YOU CAN REPLACE IT IN KIND. THAT IS, IT'S ALWAYS AN OPTION FOR THE GENTLEMAN. AND FIVE IS APPROVED FOR VERNACULAR BUILDING. SO THAT FITS IN. I'M KIND OF LEANING. I'M SORT OF LEANING ON THE NOVELTY AND THE VINYL WINDOWS PERSONALLY, AND I'D STILL LIKE TO SEE WOOD IN THE FRONT. BUT YOU KNOW, IF IT HELPS, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD COMPROMISE. AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME SHIFT IN THE WINDOW DESIGN, WHICH I COVERED AT THE VERY BEGINNING, WHERE THERE'S A FEW WINDOWS THAT DON'T REALLY MAKE SENSE ON THE ELEVATIONS. AND THIS HISTORIC PHOTO, IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS A METAL ROOF. SO MAYBE THAT IS OUR EVIDENCE RIGHT THERE THAT THERE WAS A METAL ROOF. SO WE'RE GOOD WITH THAT.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THESE ARE THE AREAS WHERE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES WE'LL SAY, SURE, YOU CAN CHANGE THOSE WINDOWS ON THE SECOND FLOOR AND IT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND THEN THIS ONE'S NOT. AND YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE WE'VE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE TRY TO, YOU KNOW, GET US TO CHANGE SIDING MATERIALS, YOU KNOW, EVEN IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS. AND SO NOW I REALIZE, NO, YOU CANNOT ABSOLUTELY NOT CHANGE IT. SO THAT'S GOOD. YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS THE LOOK OF WHAT'S THERE, THAT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW. OKAY. HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO THIS? NOT TOO SURE. DOES THIS NEED TO BE CONTINUED? I WOULD THINK SO. I THINK IT DOES,

[01:55:06]

BRING THE DETAIL OF HOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE CASED. WE'RE STRONGLY RECOMMENDING NOVELTY SIDING BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S ON THE BUILDING. YOU'VE GOT CHOICES. YOU CAN GO TO BALL OR YOU STAY WITH THE PINE AND YOU DO THE PREP ON IT. THE PINE, THE PINE IS GOING TO SAVE YOU A FORTUNE. SO THAT'S GOING TO BE THE ROUTE YOU PROBABLY TAKE. AND THEN I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME OF THESE WINDOWS MOVED AROUND A LITTLE BIT. I CAN TEAR THIS OUT. SO YOU'VE GOT A GUIDELINE AND AND BRING IT BACK TO US SO WE CAN SEE IT CLOSER TO WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TODAY. BECAUSE I'D LIKE I'D LIKE TO VOTE ON IT AND GO, YES, LET'S GO. LET'S GET IT. BECAUSE YOU WANT TO MOVE TO. AND WE'VE HAD THIS FOR SOME YEARS NOW. WE'D LOVE TO SEE THAT BUILDING FIXED. I KNOW THESE GENTLEMEN WOULD TO IT'S GOOD FOR THE TOWN. YOU KNOW, I AGREE. THERE ARE DETAILS OF THE PROPOSED WINDOWS STARTING ON THE APPLICATION, PAGE 35. HE PROVIDED THE CUSTOMER QUOTE AND IT HAS THE DIMENSIONS AND THE BRAND. HE INCLUDED A COUPLE PAGES FROM THE WINDOW BROCHURE THAT'S ON PAGE 40 AND 41. IT GOES, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY TO LET'S SEE IF YOU KEEP SCROLLING. THERE'S MULTIPLE PAGES ON THE WINDOWS, JUST SO YOU KNOW, THE WINDOW SURVEY AND APPLICATION IS REALLY GOOD. THE ONLY THING MISSING OUT OF THIS IS THE MUNTIN PROFILE. THESE ARE TWO OVER TWOS. WHAT IS THAT MUNTIN LOOK LIKE? WELL, I GAVE A A PRODUCT SHEET WITH THE ROOFING MATERIAL THAT SHOWED THAT THE MUNTIN WAS. WHAT'S IN HERE? YES.

IF YOU LOOK ON THE LAST PAGE OF THE LITTLE PACKET THAT WAS HANDED OUT THAT WAS HANDED TO YOU, IT'S ON THE LAST PAGE. WELL, ALSO THE EXTRA ELEVATIONS DON'T SHOW THE MOUNTAINS. THAT CAN BE A CONDITION. I MEAN. RIGHT, I KNOW, I'M JUST SAYING, I JUST IF WE WANT TO MAKE SURE, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO BE VERY SPECIFIC. IF YOU WERE GOING TO MOVE TO APPROVE IT TODAY, YOU WOULD WANT TO BE VERY SPECIFIC. SO JUST TO CLARIFY. SO IT CLEARLY STATES EXTERIOR APPLIED GRILL, IT'S GOING TO HAVE A FILLER BETWEEN IT AND PROBABLY SOMETHING ON THE INSIDE, WHICH IS OF LITTLE CONCERN TO US. THE EXTERIOR APPLIED GRILL IS THE CORRECT COMMENT. IS IT A FLAT PIECE OF LATTICE OR DOES IT HAVE PROFILE? THE PROFILE IS WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR. SO BRING A PIECE OF THAT OR A PHOTOGRAPH SHOWING THE PROFILE OF THE MOUNTAIN. OTHER THAN THAT, THE WINDOW PACKAGE YOU SUPPLIED, WE COULDN'T HAVE ASKED FOR MORE DETAIL. OKAY.

IT'S VERY GOOD. GOOD. THANK YOU. AND THEY PROBABLY JUST HAVE A CHOICE WITH THE WINDOW COMPANY.

THEY'LL HAVE IT OF WHAT THAT PROFILE LOOKS LIKE. SO YOU COULD JUST GET THEM TO SHOW, YOU KNOW, AND SAY THIS IS THE ONE I'M GOING TO GET. OKAY. NOW IF YOU IF YOU, IN FACT ADD SOME WINDOWS IN HERE, THIS WINDOW ORDER WOULD BE ADJUSTED. IT DOESN'T MATTER FOR US, BUT IT DOES FOR YOU. AND JUST WHEN YOU BRING THESE DRAWINGS BACK, BRING THOSE WINDOWS BACK IN PLACE. IF YOU CAN'T PUT THEM THERE FOR A REASON, EXPLAIN WHY. IT'S RATHER LIKE THE WINDOW DOWNSTAIRS IN THE BACK MISSING. AND I SAID, WELL, JUST PUT A SMALL ONE OVER THE SINK AND THEN THAT FACADE MAKES SENSE. I'M GOING TO TEAR OUT MY SHEET BECAUSE I PUT X'S WHERE IN MY OPINION, WINDOWS SHOULD GO. I'M ONE PERSON ON THIS BOARD, BUT I JUST I'M LOOKING AT THE FACADE OF THE BUILDING. I'M NOT THE ARCHITECT, I'M THE BUILDER. THESE ARE THE ARCHITECTS, RIGHT? I BELIEVE THAT THE THE KITCHEN SINK IS MOVED TO THE RIGHT ELEVATION AND THERE IS A WINDOW OVER THAT OVER THAT SINK. I'M HAVING TROUBLE HEARING YOU. I'M SORRY. THE THE THE KITCHEN SINK WAS MOVED TO THE RIGHT ELEVATION. I'M NOT SURE THE DIRECTION WHETHER IT'S WEST OR WHATEVER, BUT IT HAS A HAS A WINDOW OVER THAT SINK, NOT IN THE ELEVATION. IT DOES NOT ON THE FLOOR PLAN. YOU COULD SEE THE KITCHEN. YEAH. THERE'S A DOOR GOING OUT. I'M LOOKING OUT THE BACK ONTO THE DECK. THERE'S A DOOR ON THE LEFT, AND THEN THERE'S A CABINET RUN WITH A STOVE. HE'S SAYING THE STOVE IS WHERE YOU'RE SAYING PUT THE WINDOW. WELL, THERE NEEDS TO BE

[02:00:01]

I'M JUST GIVING YOU IDEAS. YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THEM ALL. IT'S TO DO WITH THE ESTHETIC LOOKING FROM THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING. YOU DON'T YOU DON'T SEE THAT IT'S ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, RIGHT? YEAH, IT'S ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, BUT IT'S A BLANK. IN FACT, IF I GO TO THE ELEVATION, IT'S BEYOND BLANK. THERE'S ONE DOOR DOWNSTAIRS, A BIG BLANK WALL UPSTAIRS. IT'S COMPLETELY BLANK EXCEPT FOR ONE PICTURE WINDOW. I PUT A QUESTION MARK ON THAT BECAUSE THAT LIKELY WOULD HAVE HAD TWO DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS IN IT. IT'S A BEDROOM, SO YOU GOT TO THINK ABOUT HOW IT'S GOING TO WORK WITH THE BEDROOM, WHERE THE BED'S GOING TO GO, THE SIZING OF THE WINDOWS, BUT IT NEEDS SOMETHING OTHER THAN THAT. YES, IT IS ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. I THINK PROBABLY THE BEST CHOICE WOULD BE IN THAT BEDROOM ABOVE WHERE THE STOVE IS. INSTEAD OF HAVING ONE WINDOW, HAVING MAYBE THE BED IN THE MIDDLE AND HAVING TWO WINDOWS, YOU KNOW, LIKE A WINDOW ON EACH SIDE OF THE BED, YOU GOT A BATHROOM JUST TO BREAK UP THE WALL. I THINK THE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE, THE, THE BEDROOM? THAT'S ALL THE WAY IN THE BACK. YEAH, YEAH. SO THERE'S, THERE'S A WINDOW ON THE SIDE. THERE'S ONE ON THE SIDE, A TRANSOM WINDOW, LIKE WHERE THE BED WOULD GO. YEAH. WE'RE JUST, WE'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE, THE BACK WALL PIECE THAT'S ABOVE WHERE THE, THE, THE RANGE IS DOWNSTAIRS ON THAT WALL. IF YOU BROKE THOSE, THAT ONE PAIR OF WINDOWS UP AND YOU PUT IT, YOU KNOW, WHERE YOU HAD TWO, I THINK IT COULD KIND OF MEET WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR ON MULTIPLE WINDOWS VERSUS ONE. I MEAN, I'M GOING TO LET YOU TAKE THIS. YEAH. I JUST PUT MARKS WHERE I THOUGHT WINDOWS SHOULD GO AND THE QUESTION MARK ON THE PICTURE. DO YOU WANT US TO PUT THAT UP ON THE OVERHEAD? ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. I CAN GET.

YOU'RE SAYING FOR THE TOP FLOOR, THE SECOND FLOOR REAR ELEVATION TO DO TWO WINDOWS, MISS DUNCAN, INSTEAD OF THE TRANSOM WINDOW. THAT'S JUST A THOUGHT. YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE TRYING TO BREAK UP THE WALL WITH WINDOWS AND YOU HAVE YOUR CABINETS AT THE FIRST FLOOR, YOU COULD GAIN TWO WINDOWS THERE. INSTEAD OF HAVING THAT, I'M ASSUMING YOU'RE PUTTING THE BED BELOW THAT ONE WINDOW, RIGHT. AND THE BATHROOM IS TO THE RIGHT. THE BATHROOM IS TO THE RIGHT. SO THERE'S NOT MUCH ROOM FOR ANOTHER. IT DOESN'T BALANCE EASILY. SO UNLESS YOU USE A TWIN BED OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT WELL, NO, HAVE THE BED YOU NEED. SO YOU KNOW THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF TWEAK IT, MAYBE COME UP, MAYBE YOU HAVE TWO OF THOSE SPLIT UP, DO SOMETHING TO MAKE IT A BIT MORE INTERESTING. YEAH. AND YOU CAN ALSO REFER TO THE PLAN AND GO, THIS IS WHY I HAD TO DO THAT. I CAN'T PUT A WINDOW DOWNSTAIRS BECAUSE THERE'S A STOVE THERE. MAYBE THE STOVE GOES WHERE THE SINK IS AND THE SINK LOOKS OUT TO THE DECK. YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU HOW TO DESIGN YOUR BUILDING. I JUST WANT TO GET. THAT'S SO BLANK. IT'S SO BLANK. MOVE TO THE RIGHT HAND DRAWING. YOU'LL SEE I MARKED IN. I JUST PUT TWO X'S THERE AND THE BOTTOM ONE. YEAH, A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. I KNOW, I'M SORRY. IT'S NOT REALLY FITTING THERE VERY WELL IS IT. THERE WE GO. SO TOOK OUT THE WINDOW ON THE UPSTAIRS PORCH. THERE'S A BEDROOM BEHIND IT, BUT THERE'S NO REASON A WINDOW COULD NOT BE THERE. IT WAS THERE AND IT WOULD LOOK BETTER WITH IT. AND THEN I KNOW YOU TOOK THE OTHER ONES OUT BECAUSE YOU HAD A STAIRCASE. YOU COULD POSSIBLY PUT A SMALL WINDOW MATCHING THE ONE DOWNSTAIRS THAT'S GOING TO BE IN THE LANDING OF THE STAIRS. AND THEN UPSTAIRS IS AN OPEN HALLWAY. THAT'S WHERE THAT AC UNIT WAS. IF THE AC CAN GO TO THE ATTIC, THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.

THEN THERE ARE CODES TO DO WITH PUTTING AC IN AN ATTIC. SO BUT YOU COULD PUT EITHER A BLANK WINDOW THERE WHERE IT'S ONLY VISIBLE FROM OUTSIDE AND YOUR AC GOES THERE. NOW THAT NOW THAT ELEVATION LOOKS CORRECT, THERE'S A COUPLE OF WAYS YOU CAN DO IT. THIS, THIS WINDOW

[02:05:06]

OKAY. WELL JUST ONE THING WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT. YOU CAN SEE IT ON THAT ELEVATION. IT'S CALLING FOR ALUMINUM HANDRAILS ON THAT PORCH. SO IS THAT JUST A A BLACK ALUMINUM. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE PROPOSING? YES. SO WE COULD GO BACK WITH WOOD. THAT WOULDN'T BE. YEAH. WOOD IS OKAY, I THINK. DEAL. BUT WE I THINK WOOD WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATE. YES, YES. THAT COULD BE A FULL WINDOW. OKAY. WE NEED A KIND OF PUT TOGETHER A MOTION. ARE WE GOING TO CONTINUE THIS. I THINK WE HAVE TO. OKAY. UNFORTUNATELY, I JUST NEED TO MAKE A REMINDER THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF GROUND DISTURBANCE. SO YOU NEED TO GET AN ARCHEOLOGICAL REVIEW OF YOUR SITE. ALL RIGHT. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE HE'S GOT THE RIGHT GUIDANCE. YEAH, YEAH. WE WANT TO GET THIS KIND OF TAKEN CARE OF FOR YOU NEXT TIME YOU'RE COMING UP. YEAH. SO FOR THE NOVEMBER 19TH COMMISSION MEETING OR I'M SORRY, BOARD MEETING, THE DEADLINE WOULD BE WOULD BE NOVEMBER 9TH. MISS POTTER, DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD HAVE YOU'D BE READY FOR NOVEMBER. HAVE ALL YOUR MATERIALS IN FOR NOVEMBER 9TH. THEY'RE THEY'RE CONSIDERING CONTINUING YOU SO YOU CAN GET ALL THOSE BITS AND PIECES TOGETHER TO THE NOVEMBER 19TH HARBOR MEETING. BUT THAT MEANS YOU HAVE TO HAVE ALL YOUR MATERIALS IN TEN DAYS PRIOR, WHICH IS NOVEMBER 9TH. I'D LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE. ARE THESE RECOMMENDATIONS OR ARE THESE WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO VOTE ON HERE ARE GOING TO BE WHAT'S REQUIRED IN TERMS OF THE SIDING AND WHATNOT, BECAUSE IT'S IT'S WHAT IT'S TELL HER THEY'VE ALREADY THEY'VE ALREADY PUT THE FOOTINGS IN FOR THE ARCHEOLOGICAL. IS HARB TALKING ABOUT CONTINUING THE ITEM OR MAKING A VOTE? YES. SO, SIR, THEY'RE NOT THEY'RE NOT. THEY'RE SUGGESTING IF YOU AGREE TO CONTINUE IT ANOTHER MONTH SO YOU CAN GET A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ON THE ISSUES THEY'VE RAISED. AND BUT YOU YOU DON'T HAVE TO AGREE TO A CONTINUANCE. YOU COULD SAY NO, I WANT A YES NO VOTE TODAY. THAT IS THE CHOICE YOU MAKE. IF THEY CONTINUE IT TO THE 19TH OF NOVEMBER, YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE ALL YOUR UPDATED MATERIALS IN. WHAT DID I SAY? THE DATE WAS? NOVEMBER 9TH WOULD BE THE DATE. YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE ALL YOUR MATERIALS IN. OKAY, I'LL SAY THIS THAT I'M READY TO MOVE ON THIS PROJECT. I HAVE THE FINANCING AVAILABLE TO MOVE ON THIS PROJECT. OKAY. BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO KEEP DELAYING THIS, THEN, YOU KNOW, I'D RATHER JUST GET AN ANSWER RIGHT NOW IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO IF WE'RE GOING TO REQUIRE ME TO PUT NOVELTY SIDING, WHICH IS VERY EXPENSIVE, THEN I'M NOT SURE THAT WE NEED TO CONTINUE THIS. I'LL JUST LET ME JUST CLARIFY, BECAUSE IF WE VOTE UP OR DOWN, I THINK I KNOW WHICH WAY THAT'S GOING TO GO. IT'S DEAD. YOU'VE GOT TO REAPPLY. IF YOU CONTINUE, YOU COME BACK NEXT WEEK. YOU DO HAVE TO HAVE THE INFORMATION, BUT YOU DON'T NEED THAT MUCH. YOU ALREADY HAVE A VERY GOOD WINDOW PACKAGE HERE. IT WOULD NEED SOME TWEAKING, WHICH IS REALLY ON THE ELEVATIONS. AND YOU CAN ALSO COME BACK AND EXPLAIN. I CAN'T PUT A WINDOW THERE BECAUSE THE STAIRS GOES THIS WAY. I MEAN, YOU CAN HAVE REASONS WHY NOT MARK ON THE PLAN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO NOVELTY SIDING, AGREE TO THAT. SO WE CAN SEE THAT THAT I'M GOING TO DO A FIVE V ROOF. OKAY. THAT FITS WHAT WE'VE ASKED FOR. WE'RE TALKING ELEVATIONS AND YOU DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH. YOU'VE GOT TO CHANGE. AND THEN YOU CAN PROBABLY COME BACK WITH A PACKAGE THAT CAN BE APPROVED NEXT MONTH AS OPPOSED TO KILLING IT TODAY. AND YOU START AGAIN. THAT'S PROBABLY NOT YOUR IT'S YOUR CHOICE. I CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. SO THERE WAS ONE OTHER THING I WAS GOING TO ASK FOR. OH, THE WINDOW DETAIL THAT YOUR ARCHITECT WOULD JUST

[02:10:01]

YOU HAVE THE DOCUMENT READY TO GO FOR NEXT MONTH. WE HAVE A GOOD CHANCE OF PASSING IT. OKAY.

WELL, I MEAN, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE WINDOW DETAIL. THAT'S NOT AN ISSUE. THE WINDOWS, IF IT'S FEASIBLE, LIKE I SAID, I DON'T THINK IT'S FEASIBLE FOR THIS, THIS PARTICULAR WINDOW BECAUSE RIGHT THERE IS A STAIRWELL. IT'S GOING THERE'S IT'S BLOCKING IT. SO I'M NOT SURE HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW, BUT THE SIDING IS A MAJOR STICKING POINT BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, WE'VE GOT MAJOR COMPONENTS OF THIS HOUSE THAT ARE COMPLETELY MISSING. SO IT'S IT'S GOING TO LOOK LARGELY THE SAME. SO LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. IF YOU AGREE TO A FIVE ROOF AND CHANGING THE SIDING OUT TO NOVELTY AND DOING WINDOW TRIMS TO MATCH EXISTING.

NOW I'M GOING TO SPEAK TO COUNCIL AND STAFF. WOULD IT BE UNTOWARD TO PASS THIS SO HE CAN GET MOVING AND HE'D HAVE TO COME BACK WITH DETAILS ON ANY OTHER WINDOWS THAT WE'VE ASKED FOR. IS THAT A POSSIBILITY TO DO? YES YOU COULD. AND MARIN, IT'S BEEN LIKE THIS FOREVER. HE WANTS. COULD YOU PUT THE SWITCH TO THE PROJECTOR VIEW, PLEASE? JUST SO YOU CAN SEE IF THERE WAS ANY OTHER QUESTION ON THAT. I AM PROJECTING PAGE TEN OF THE APPLICATION. SOME OF THOSE.

YEAH. SOME OF THOSE WINDOWS WILL WORK, SOME WON'T. AND ALL YOU'D HAVE TO DO IS COME BACK FOR THAT ITEM ALONE. IT WOULD BE ANOTHER APPLICATION BECAUSE IF WE PASS THIS, THIS ONE CLOSES AND THEN YOU JUST COME BACK FOR THOSE FEW DETAILS. BUT YOU WOULD THEN PASS TODAY AND YOU COULD GET MOVING. THAT'S WHAT WHAT'S THE WHAT'S THE VERDICT ON THE SIDING WITH THE SIDING. WE'D REQUIRE NOVELTY AND WOULD THAT DOESN'T GO AWAY. YOU CAN DO IT IN BALL TWO, BUT IT'S GOING TO PRICE YOU OUT. THAT'S NOT THAT'S GOING TO KILL THE PROJECT. I'M GOING TO TELL YOU THAT RIGHT NOW. IT'S GOING TO KILL THIS PROJECT. IT'S UP TO YOU. WELL, IT'S UP TO YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE MAKING THE DECISIONS HERE. I THINK THE BOARD IS IN AGREEMENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO REQUIRE YOU TO DO NOVELTY SIDING. AND YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES IN NOVELTY. ONE IS BALL. IT'S OUTRAGEOUS. THE OTHER IS PINE. IT'S NOT THAT EXPENSIVE, BUT YOU DO HAVE TO DO A PREP STEP IN THE INSTALLATION THAT WILL PASS TODAY. IF YOU AGREE TO DO WOOD SIDING. MY ENGINEER OKAY IS NOT APPROVING THAT ON HIS PLAN HE'S CALLING FOR WOULD HAVE TO REDRAW HIS PLAN TO SHOW WOODSIDE. HE'S TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S WHAT'S IN CODE. THERE'S NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CODE. IT'S FINISHED. IF YOU'RE REPLACING WOOD FOR WOOD, YOU HAVE THE STUDS EXPOSED. YOU PUT THE PLYWOOD ON IT, YOU PUT THE VAPOR BARRIER ON IT, YOU PUT THE SIDING ON IT, AND YOU'VE JUST MET THIS REQUIREMENT. ONCE ALL THAT SIDING IS REMOVED, NOW IT HAS TO BE BROUGHT UP TO CODE. FROM WHAT HE'S TELLING ME, YOU HAVE TO BRING THIS BILL. NO, THAT'S NOT TRUE. I MEAN, WOOD SIDING IS DEFINITELY ALLOWED. IT IS ALLOWED. YEAH, BUT THE CODE THING IS NOT AN ISSUE. YOU HAVE TO BRING THIS BUILDING UP TO CODE BECAUSE IT IS CONSIDERED A SUBSTANTIAL IMPROVEMENT. THE IMPROVEMENT IS OVER 50% OF THE VALUE OF THE BUILDING. THAT'S THE BUILDING CODE. I DO THIS EVERY DAY. WOOD SIDING IS AN APPROVED PRODUCT.

AND THE ASSEMBLY THAT YOUR ARCHITECT ENGINEER, I BELIEVE HAS REQUIRED. HE WANTS A SUBSTRATE. IT'S A GOOD IDEA. HE WANTS A VAPOR BARRIER. GOOD IDEA. YOU PUT THE WOOD SIDING ON IT. THAT'S AN ASSEMBLY AND IT MEETS CODE. HE'S GOING TO TELL YOU. YES. ON THAT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE HARDIE TO MEET THAT CRITERIA. THAT'S CORRECT. WE CAN VOTE ON THAT TODAY, BUT THAT'S UP TO YOU. SO WE'RE VOTING ON FOR ME TO REPLACE ALL THE SIDING WITH WOOD, YOU'D BE PUTTING WOOD SIDING BACK. THAT WOULD BE OUR REQUIREMENT. I GUESS. GO AHEAD AND VOTE ON IT. BUT I PROBABLY WON'T TAKE THIS ON. SO THAT'S THAT'S FINE. IF WE VOTE ON IT, YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT WE SAY. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. PARDON ME. IF WE VOTE ON IT, THEN YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THAT. YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. THAT'S FINE. BUT LIKE I SAID, I MIGHT NOT I MIGHT NOT TAKE ON THE PROJECT ITSELF. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU. WELL, YOU CAN COST IT OUT AND MAKE THAT DECISION. CORRECT. I'D LOVE I WOULD LIKE YOU TO DO THIS. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S YOU'RE SAYING UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN WE USE HARDIE. THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. NOT ON THIS BUILDING. I'M NOT SAYING IT. AND I'M ONE MAN ON THE BOARD. SO DON'T THINK I'M PICKING ON YOU BECAUSE IT'S NOT THIS IS A CONSENSUS. WE'VE HAD SOME COMMENT FROM THE PUBLIC.

ALL OF THAT COUNTS. THAT ALL GOES IN THE POT. WHAT IS CORRECT FOR THE BUILDING? HOW IMPORTANT IS THE BUILDING? VERY. ACTUALLY, YOU HAPPEN TO HAVE PICKED IT, BUT THAT ALSO GIVES

[02:15:06]

YOU'RE JUST OBLIGATED TO DO IT THAT WAY AND YOU CAN APPROVE IT. BUT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU MOVE FORWARD OR NOT DEPENDS ON WHAT I COME BACK WITH IN TERMS OF LIKE PRICING ALL THIS OUT, IT MAY SIT ANOTHER FIVE YEARS. AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THE NEIGHBORS ARE SAYING IT'S AN EYESORE. I WANT TO TAKE THIS ON, BUT IT'S GOT TO MAKE SENSE. SO GO AHEAD AND VOTE. THAT'S THIS. THIS BOARD'S JOB IS TO UPHOLD A CERTAIN STANDARD OF CONSTRUCTION WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. THAT'S OUR JOB. THAT'S ALL. IT'S NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO'S STANDING THERE.

IT'S JUST PROTECTING THE HISTORY, HISTORIC VALUE OF THE TOWN. THAT'S ALL WE DO. SO IT MAY NOT STAND MUCH LONGER IF YOU'VE BEEN IN THE HOUSE. I'M AWARE OF THE CONDITION OF THE HOUSE. IT'S NOT SAFE TO WALK AROUND. YOU KNOW, IT COULD FALL IN A BAD STORM. SO I KNOW IT'S NOT IN GOOD SHAPE. I KNOW THAT, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. OKAY. SO. ALL RIGHT, CAN WE GET A MOTION WITH THIS? SO THERE'S A FEW CAVEATS. I'M GOING TO MAKE AN APPROVAL TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE APPLICATION 2026 00761 60 ONEIDA STREET WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS. WE WILL AGREE TO APPROVE VINYL WINDOWS WITH THE CORRECT MOUNTAIN PROFILE TO BE. THEY MAY AS WELL COME BACK TO THE MEETING BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A MEETING ABOUT OTHER WINDOWS.

I'LL GET TO THAT IN A MOMENT. WITH THE USE OF A NOVELTY SIDING, IT COULD BE BALL THAT GIVES YOU A SYNTHETIC MATERIAL TO EXPENSIVE OR A WOOD NOVELTY WITH THE CORRECT PREP. A FIVE V METAL ROOF. WE WOULD APPROVE THAT. OBVIOUSLY, YOU CAN STILL DO SHINGLES IF YOU CHOOSE TO BECAUSE THAT'S ON THE BUILDING. THE OTHER REQUIREMENT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU COME BACK ON ANOTHER APPLICATION JUST TO DISCUSS THE WINDOWS REQUEST ON THE DRAWING THAT'S UNDERNEATH.

THE TELEPROMPTER NOW, SHOWING WHERE IT WOULD BE NICE TO GET WINDOWS BALANCED. AND IF THERE'S A REASON THEY CAN'T GO BRING US THE REASON WE AREN'T UNREASONABLE. WE JUST WE WANT TO GET THE BEST THAT WE CAN WITHIN THE PARAMETERS, I THINK. HAVE I MISSED ANYTHING? PREFER THE WOOD RAILINGS ON THE PORCHES? YEAH. THE DETAILS ON THE CASING OF THE OF THE WINDOWS. THAT'S AN IMPORTANT DETAIL TOO. AND PORCHES AND HANDRAILS. YEAH. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO. THAT'S NOT BEEN DISCUSSED ACTUALLY. HOW DO YOU PLAN ON DOING THE PORCH RAILINGS AND THE PICKETS? ARE THEY GOING TO BE TURNED OR SQUARE? I BELIEVE IN THE PICTURE THAT I SAW THAT THEY WERE SQUARE. BUT I'M NOT. I'M NOT. AND THAT'S OKAY. I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE INTENTION IS. WE HAD ALUMINUM, BUT I'M WILLING TO GO BACK WITH WOOD AND WE CAN WOOD. A WOOD SQUARE PICKET IS FINE ON A VERNACULAR HOUSE. YES, IT'S DONE EVERYWHERE. SO OKAY, SO I'LL ADD TO THAT MOTION THAT THE PICKETS AND RAILING SYSTEM WILL BE SQUARE IN WOOD. I'M ASSUMING. PRESSURE TREATED, PAINTED. CAN I JUST GET SOME CLARIFICATION BECAUSE I, I THINK I HEARD THE APPLICANT SAY HE WANTED A YES OR NO ON THE WHOLE THING TODAY.

AM I MISUNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU SAID, SIR? YEAH. I'D LIKE TO VOTE YES. SO WE ARE. JUST MAKE SURE YOUR MOTION DOESN'T QUALIFY ON HAVING YET ANOTHER HEARING, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THE APPLICANT DOES NOT. OKAY, GOOD. THANK YOU. YES. VOTE ON WHAT'S BEING PUT BEFORE US TODAY WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT DOWN IN THE MOTION, WITH THE REQUEST TO RETURN OVER THE WINDOWS THAT ARE MARKED ON THAT DRAWING. RIGHT. BUT THE REQUEST IS JUST A ADMINISTRATIVE REQUEST REQUEST. IT'S NOT NOT THIS ONE. AND CAN I ASK A QUESTION? ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL. HE ALREADY SAID THERE'S CABINETS ON THE WALL IN THE KITCHEN, AND THERE'S THE STAIR AND THE AIR HANDLER. ARE WE MAKING HIM MOVE THAT? IS THAT PART OF THE CONDITION OR ARE WE SAYING WHAT? WHAT ARE WE SAYING THERE? WELL, WE HAVE TO VOTE ONE WAY ON THIS, AS I UNDERSTAND. RIGHT. I THINK THE APPLICANT IS ASKING FOR A DEFINITIVE YES OR NO ON THE

[02:20:02]

SO IT IS A YES. BUT THE CONDITION WOULD BE CONSIDERATION OF OTHER FENESTRATION ON THE REAR OF THE BUILDING. AND THAT COULD BE ALMOST ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED. THAT'S WHAT I THINK. YEAH. THAT COULD BE ADMINISTRATIVELY APPROVED. I.

HOW ABOUT THAT. AND THAT WOULD BE FINE. BUT WHAT IF HE. IT SOUNDS LIKE HE'S ALREADY THOUGHT IT THROUGH AND DOESN'T FEEL THAT HE CAN CHANGE IT FROM THE DESIGN THAT HE'S PROPOSING.

SO IF THAT IS WHAT HE STATES TO STAFF, WELL, WE LIVE WITH IT THE WAY IT'S DRAWN AND IT'S AN UP AND DOWN VOTE. THAT MIGHT BE THE EASIEST WAY TO DO THIS. I MEAN, I CAN ADD THAT HE SHOULD CONSIDER IT, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE HE HAS CONSIDERED, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR THE WINDOWS. MARIN IF WE CAN HAVE THE PROJECTOR VIEW, PLEASE, JUST SO EVERYONE CAN SEE THE ELEVATIONS. IT'S MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE LOOK FROM THE OUTSIDE. AND THEY'RE ON SECONDARY ELEVATIONS TO. SO IT IS A LITTLE MORE FORGIVING. BUT YES, I AM TRYING TO DO AN UP OR DOWN VOTE. YES. YEAH, I'M JUST SAYING WE'VE GOT TO BE ABLE TO ENFORCE SOMETHING SO IT CAN'T BE. WELL CONSIDER SOMETHING. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN. IT'S GOT TO BE WE APPROVE THIS OR WE DISAPPROVE THIS. NOW DETAILS OF THAT COULD BE ADMINISTRATIVELY REVIEWED. BUT BUT STAFF HAS TO KNOW WHAT THAT IS, WHAT THOSE DETAILS ARE. SO I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT HAS SAID HE CAN'T DO SOME OF THE ADDITIONAL FENESTRATION THAT YOU HAVE SUGGESTED AT THIS HEARING. SO IF THAT'S A NO, THERE'S NOTHING STAFF WOULD BE ABLE TO ADMINISTRATIVELY CHANGE FROM YOUR MOTION. OKAY. CAN I LEAVE THE WINDOWS WHERE THEY ARE? OKAY. AND THERE'S GOING TO BE AN UP OR DOWN VOTE. AND I'M JUST THAT IS FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. YOU CAN DO IT OR NOT. BUT IT IS ALSO THE ESTHETICS AND THE LOOK FROM THE OUTSIDE. THAT WAY WE CAN DO AN UP OR DOWN VOTE. IT'S NICE AND CLEAN AND YOU CAN MOVE ON. THAT'S FAIR ENOUGH. WELL, I MEAN, THE ESTHETICS ARE THERE'S AN ABANDONED BUILDING RIGHT NOW IN POOR CONDITION. SO, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M DOING MY BEST TO TRY AND BRING THIS THING BACK TO BACK TO BACK TO LIFE HERE. YEAH.

I'M JUST WE'RE VERY LIMITED TO EVERYTHING. I'M JUST. I'M JUST SAYING IT. I MEAN, YEAH. OKAY.

OKAY. SO MY MOTION STANDS AS SUCH. ALL RIGHT. CAN I GET A SECOND? I'LL SECOND THAT. ALL RIGHT. MADAM SECRETARY, CAN YOU CALL ROLL. GARY MCDONALD. YES. MICHAEL. BLAKE. YES. CATHERINE.

DUNCAN. YES. LINDA POTTER. YES. BRAD BEACH. YES. ALL RIGHT, SIR, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. THAT'S A LONG ONE. ALL RIGHT. AT THIS TIME WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A TEN MINUTE BREAK AND THEN COME BACK AND WE'LL WRAP UP THE REST OF THE ICAN HAVE JULIE'S REPORT AF. IT'S A LITTLE BACKWARDS, BUT.

SURE. OKAY, WE'LL GET STARTED. THIS ITEM IS ITEM NINE A, IT'S FOR A CERTIFICATE OF

[9.a) HP2026-0077]

[02:25:06]

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOLLOWS AN OPINION OF APPROPRIATENESS APPLICATION THAT WAS APPROVED AT THE APRIL 2026 MEETING, WITH PROPOSED MODIFICATIONS TO THE SITE OF THE HOUSE PROPERTY. THE OPINION OF APPROPRIATENESS APPLICATION HAD THREE DIFFERENT PLANS INCLUDED, AND THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY HAD INDICATED THEIR PREFERENCE FOR OPTION A, WHICH WAS REFERRED TO AS THE EVENT SQUARE THAT ALLOWED FOR FLEXIBLE USE, STORMWATER PERCOLATION, AND TO ADD NEW SEAT WALLS TO THE EXISTING WALL AREA. AND I'LL GO BACK TO GIVE YOU JUST A VERY QUICK SUMMARY OF THE PROPERTY. THE LLAMBIAS HOUSE WAS OF COLONIAL ERA BUILDING THAT REACHED FINAL FORM BY 1788. IT IS LISTED ON THE NATIONAL HISTORIC LANDMARK REGISTRY. AS OF 1970. IT IS ONE OF ONLY FIVE OTHER SAINT AUGUSTINE STRUCTURES RECOGNIZED WITH THIS LEVEL OF INDIVIDUAL DISTINCTION, WHICH IS THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION DESIGNATION. IN 1945, THE HOUSE WAS PURCHASED BY THE CARNEGIE INSTITUTION AND DONATED TO THE CITY OF SAINT AUGUSTINE, AND THE BUILDING'S CARE CONTINUES TO BE ADMINISTERED BY THE SAINT AUGUSTINE HISTORICAL SOCIETY, WHO REFERS TO THE STRUCTURE AS THE FERNANDO FERNANDEZ LLAMBIAS HOUSE. SORRY. SO THE SCOPE OF WORK FOR THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS IS SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT THAN THE OPINION OF APPROPRIATENESS. THE HARDSCAPE INCLUDES ADDITIONAL AREAS THAT ARE SHOWN ON YOUR PLANS AND WILL BE DETAILED BY THE APPLICANTS. BUT INSTEAD OF THE HARD, VERY LINEAR CROSS SHAPED PATHWAY WHICH THE HAAB SAID, YOU KNOW, NEEDED TO BE SOFTENED. THE BRICK PAVED WALKWAY IS GOING TO BE NOW A COQUINA CONCRETE MATERIAL. THE APPLICANT SHOULD CLARIFY IF THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, TRUE COCONUT CONCRETE AND WHAT IS LABELED ON SOME OF THE DRAWINGS AS PERMEABLE CONCRETE. WITH BRICK BANDING, THERE'S AREAS OF THE EXISTING BRICK PAVERS AND COCONUT CONCRETE THAT ARE IMMEDIATELY TO THE REAR OF THE HOUSE AND ARE SHOWN ON THE STAFF PHOTOS AND THE APPLICATION PHOTOS. AND THE APPLICATION DID NOT INDICATE IF THOSE NEW PLANS PROPOSE FOR THE HARDSCAPE MATERIALS TO BE REMOVED OR REPLACED IN THOSE AREAS IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE HOUSE, THE AREAS OF THE LOOSE COQUINA SHELL HAVE BEEN REDUCED TO LARGE SQUARES ON EITHER SIDE OF THE WALKWAY, AND THE EVENT SQUARE AREA AND ABOVE IT, INSTEAD OF ON ALL FOUR QUADRANTS OF THE PROPOSED INTERSECTING BRICK WALKWAY AT THE CENTER OF THIS AREA. THAT WAS SHOWN ON THE OPINION OF APPROPRIATENESS, APPLICATION AND STONE PAVER PATHWAYS HAVE BEEN ADDED TO PARALLEL THE PROPOSED BERM ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE PROPERTY, AND SERVE AS LINKS BETWEEN OTHER AREAS, FURTHER SOFTENING THE LINEAR PRIMARY PATHWAY. THE APPLICANT SHOULD CONFIRM IF THERE HAS BEEN A LARGE CHANGE IN THE HARDSCAPE COVERAGE, AND HOW MUCH OF THAT IS PERVIOUS. AS FAR AS LANDSCAPING FEATURES GOES, THERE'S A GREAT VARIETY OF LANDSCAPING PROPOSED WITH THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS PLAN, AND THERE'S BEEN ADDITIONS OF SOUTHERN LIVE OAKS AND A LOT OF OTHER PLANT SPECIES, INCLUDING EVEN LIKE VEGETABLE TYPE OR FRUIT TREES, VEGETABLE PLANTS AND FRUIT TREES. THE PLANS LABEL THE PLANTS AS EITHER NATIVE OR FLORIDA FRIENDLY, AND I NOTED THAT FLORIDA FRIENDLY PLANTS GENERALLY STILL NEED HARBOR APPROVAL, SINCE THEY MAY NOT FALL UNDER EITHER OF THE PRE-APPROVED PLANTING MATERIALS THAT ARE LISTED IN OUR ARCHITECTURAL GUIDELINES FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION. SO THE APPLICANT SHOULD VERIFY IF THE FLORIDA FRIENDLY ARE ON THE A, G, H P OR NOT, BECAUSE THOSE

[02:30:04]

[02:35:06]

GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS MEGAN ALTICE AND I'M THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE SAINT AUGUSTINE HISTORICAL SOCIETY. AND WE TAKE OUR RESPONSIBILITY AS THE STEWARDS OF THE FERNANDEZ LLAMBIAS HOUSE VERY SERIOUSLY AND RECOGNIZE THAT THIS NATIONAL HISTORIC LANDMARK DEMANDS A LOT OF THOUGHTFUL CARE AND PLANNING. AND SO WE WERE REALLY, REALLY PLEASED TO WORK WITH JEREMY AND HIS TEAM TO, TO CREATE THIS PLAN THAT WE THINK IT UPHOLDS THE HISTORIC INTEGRITY OF THE SITE. IT IT RECOGNIZES AND RESPECTS THE HISTORIC, THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PROPERTY AS WELL. IT EVEN IS REFLECTIVE OF SOME OF THE STORIES OF THE PEOPLE WHO OCCUPIED THE SITE THROUGHOUT HISTORY. SO WE WERE REALLY PLEASED TO SEE THEM INCORPORATING ALL OF THESE ELEMENTS INTO THE PLANNING PROCESS. AND THEY ALSO PUT A LOT OF THOUGHTFUL CARE AND PLANNING IN REGARDS TO THE FEEDBACK THAT WAS RECEIVED FROM THE FROM THE ORIGINAL PLAN, FROM, FROM THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD, AS WELL AS MEMBERS OF THE GREATER COMMUNITY. WE SHARED THIS WITH SOME OF OUR LOCAL HISTORIANS AND PRESERVATIONISTS AS WELL. AND, AND THEY WERE VERY THOUGHTFUL AND TOOK THEIR THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS AND THEIR CONCERNS AND CREATED THIS REVISION TODAY. SO WE'RE VERY EXCITED. WE'RE VERY CONFIDENT WITH THE PLAN AND RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR YOUR APPROVAL AS WELL.

SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON. GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL. JEREMY MARQUIS, MARCUS LATIMER AND HORLBECK. I HOPE THAT YOU WILL SEE AS I GO THROUGH THE PLANS THAT WE LISTENED, THAT YOU ALL GAVE US SOME REALLY NICE FEEDBACK LAST TIME, PARTICULARLY ABOUT GETTING MORE SHADE IN THE SPACE. AND SO I MISS COURTNEY'S RIGHT THAT THERE'S A LOT OF COORDINATION STILL AHEAD OF US WITH THE CITY ARCHEOLOGISTS, BUT I HOPE THAT YOU'LL SEE THROUGH THE PLANS THAT ISABEL AND I AND THE WHOLE TEAM HAVE REALLY, HOPEFULLY COMPOSED A SPACE THAT WE CAN ALL BE VERY PROUD OF. AND A BIG THANKS AS WELL TO MR. SACKER AS WELL FOR WORKING WITH US THROUGH THE GENERAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT. SO, AS MISS COURTNEY HAD MENTIONED, WE DID MAKE QUITE A CHANGE TO THE HARDSCAPE. YOU MIGHT REMEMBER THAT WE HAD A LOT OF BRICK IN THE PATHWAYS LAST TIME. WE HAVE REALLY CONFINED THE BRICK TO IMMEDIATELY AROUND THE WELL WHERE YOU CURRENTLY HAVE IT, AS WELL AS TO BANDING AROUND THE COQUINA CONCRETE. NOW, THE IDEA THAT WE HAVE, BUT IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO TRY IN THE FIELD IS TO

[02:40:05]

SO THAT IS REALLY KIND OF THE FEATURE THAT YOU'RE SEEING AT THE END. THE DARKER GRAY THAT YOU SEE IN THE MIDDLE IS STILL A LOOSE, COMPACTED COQUINA SHELL. AND THEN WE HAVE THE COQUINA CONCRETE WITH THE BRICK BANDING ON BOTH SIDES. AS YOU ALL MIGHT IMAGINE, BEING THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY, WE HAVE ALL KINDS OF FUN THINGS IN STORAGE, INCLUDING A LOT OF NATURAL COQUINA, RUFFE, COQUINA, AND WE'VE INCORPORATED THIS INTO THE BASE OF THE STAGE ITSELF.

SO I'M ACTUALLY GOING TO GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE HERE. LET ME SEE IF IT'LL LET ME ZOOM IN. IT'S A LITTLE FAINT, BUT YOU'LL GET THE IDEA. I HOPE THAT THE TOP CAP WOULD BE A POURED COQUINA CONCRETE. BUT THEN WE'RE ACTUALLY USING IN THIS SECTION SOME OF THE ROUGH COQUINA THAT WE HAVE IN STORAGE AT THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY. THE STAGE ITSELF, AS I MENTIONED, IS ADA ACCESSIBLE FROM THE REAR. AND THEN IN THE FRONT, WE HAVE A FEW STEPS THAT LEAD UP TO IT.

IT'S ABOUT 18IN ABOVE EXISTING GRADE, SO WE DON'T NEED ANY HANDRAILS. WE HAVE A FEW RAILINGS IN THE BACK JUST TO HELP DEFINE THE RAMP, AS WELL AS TO PREVENT PEOPLE FROM WALKING OFF WHERE WE WOULDN'T WANT THEM TO GO. AND THE PERGOLA WE DESIGNED TO BE A NICE PROPORTION WITH THE STAGE THAT WE HAVE UNDERNEATH. AND SO WE ACTUALLY EXTENDED THE POST.

ANOTHER SEGMENT OUT ON BOTH THE EAST AND THE WEST, SO THAT IT FEELS LIKE IT'S ALSO PART OF THE LANDSCAPE AND THAT IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT COVERING THE STAGE. WE HAD A LOT OF FUN GOING THROUGH RED BOOK, AMONG OTHERS. AND WHAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING IN LOOKING AT HIS PERGOLA DETAIL, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT REFLECTED WITH OUR CURRENT PERGOLA, OUR CURRENT PERGOLA IS ALL ESSENTIALLY RECTILINEAR PIECES OF LUMBER. THE RED BOOK TALKS ABOUT ROUND POSTS THAT ARE THEN NOTCHED AT THE TOP, AND THEN YOU HAVE THE FOUR BY FOURS, ROUGH HEWN BEAMS THAT ARE ACTUALLY BROUGHT INTO THAT SPACE. AND SO THIS IS AS CLOSE TO VERBATIM AS WE COULD FROM ALBERT MAGNUS'S RESEARCH. SO THAT WAS ALWAYS FUN TO DO. A DEEP DIVE. MR. MAGNUS'S WORK ON THE STAIR. WE HAVE SOME SMALL BULLET LIGHTS THAT ARE INCORPORATED WITHIN. AND THEN AS I MENTIONED, THE CAP IS DESIGNED AS A ROUGH CUT COQUINA ALONG THE FRONT. AND THEN WE HAVE AN EXPOSED COQUINA CONCRETE WITH A CHAMFERED EDGE THAT'S DEFINING WHERE THE STAIRS ARE AND PROVIDES A LITTLE BIT OF A BARRIER SO THAT FOLKS DON'T JUST GO OFF THE FRONT EDGE. AGAIN, THIS IS ALL UNDER THE 30 INCH MAX, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE RAILINGS, BUT WE'VE STILL INCORPORATED SOME GOOD BARRIERS SO THAT PEOPLE STAY ON STAGE. AS YOU GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, WE ARE LOOKING AT BOTH HOW WE CAN USE THE EXISTING WALLS AND PUT SOME BERMS BEHIND THIS. SO FOR INSTANCE, YOU'RE LOOKING IN THIS DETAIL OF THE EXISTING COQUINA WALL THAT RUNS ALONG SAINT FRANCIS STREET. WE'RE ACTUALLY USING SOME OF THE MATERIAL TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL SUPPORT WHEN THOSE FLOOD WATERS COME IN. AND THEN WHERE WE ARE ALONG THE PERIMETER, WE'RE COMING IN WITH A COMBINATION OF A LUMBER WALL THAT'S ALSO

[02:45:08]

WHEN WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ROOM TO GET THE GRADE BACK DOWN. AS YOU ALL MIGHT IMAGINE, BY CREATING THAT SPACE SO WE CAN PUT THE BERM UP INSTEAD OF HAVING TO GO UP A 4 TO 1 OR A 3 TO 1 SLOPE TO THREE FEET AND THEN BACK DOWN, IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN UP A GOOD WIDTH OF THE LONGEST YARD. THIS ALLOWED US TO KEEP IT TO ABOUT FOUR FEET AT A MINIMUM. AND THEN THERE ARE CERTAIN AREAS WHERE WE HAVE FEATHERED IT OUT INTO THE LANDSCAPE. THE FLOOD GATES ARE A DEPLOYABLE FLOOD GATE THAT WOULD GO INTO THOSE OPENINGS OFF OF BOTH SAINT FRANCIS STREET, AS WELL AS FROM THE PARK TO OUR WEST. THE DETAILS. AS I MENTIONED, WE'RE HOPING TO TRY OUT THE PERMEABLE CONCRETE TO MIMIC AND TO LOOK LIKE THE APPROVED COQUINA CONCRETE. BUT IF WE AREN'T ABLE TO GET IT TO THE DETAIL THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, THEN IT WOULD GO BACK TO JUST REGULAR COQUINA CONCRETE. AND THEN WE HAVE A SOLDIER COURSE OF BRICK, AND WE'RE REUSING THE BRICK THAT IS CURRENTLY ON THE SITE. AND THEN THE COQUINA WALLS THAT ARE AROUND THE WELL, THE BOTTOM PORTION WOULD BE A CAST IN PLACE COQUINA WITH AN EXPOSED AGGREGATE. AND THEN WE HAVE A PRECAST CAP. SO THAT'S A NICE SMOOTH FINISH TO SIT ALONG. AND THEN I'D LIKE TO INVITE UP MISS HOPPERS TO WALK YOU THROUGH THE PLANT MATERIAL. HELLO, I'M ISABEL HOPPS, I WORK AT MARQUIS LATIMER AND BACK WITH JEREMY. AND I JUST WANTED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT PLANTS. SO PLANTS AT THE HOUSE. IN OUR SCHEDULE, WE HAVE A MIX OF NATIVE, FLORIDA FRIENDLY AND EGP APPROVED AS WELL. WE HAVE ADDED A GOOD AMOUNT OF SABAL PALM MEADOWS THAT ARE ADDITIONAL TO THE ONES THAT WERE ALREADY THERE. WE HAVE OLIVE TREEST OF THE HOUSE, WE HAVE SAGO PALMS, WHICH ARE VERY INDICATIVE OF AN OLD FLORIDA TYPE OF CHARM. WE HAVE SOUTHERN LIVE OAKS, AND LIKE JEREMY MENTIONED, WE ADDED FOUR TO THE PLAN TO ADD ADDITIONAL SHADE TO THE MAIN GATHERING AREAS AND THEN GOING A LITTLE BIT MORE INTO THE SHRUB AREAS. WE HAVE AGAIN, WE HAVE A GOOD MIX OF EGP APPROVED NATIVE AND FLORIDA FRIENDLY, BUT WE ALSO HAVE SOME RESEARCH FROM THE SAINT AUGUSTINE HISTORICAL SOCIETY THAT INDICATES A LOT OF THESE PLANTS, THINGS LIKE THE PASSIONFLOWER VINE THAT'S GOING TO BE ALONG SOME OF THE FENCES AND WALLS. AND THEN IN SHRUBS, WE HAVE EVERYTHING FROM ANISE TO CAST IRON PLANT AS SOME, YOU KNOW, STRUCTURAL PLANTINGS. AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF COLOR IN ROSES. LIRIOPE WE HAVE A COUPLE DIFFERENT TYPES OF ROSES. WE HAVE PINK MUHLY GRASS. AND THEN WITH SOME MORE STRUCTURAL PLANTINGS LIKE SCHILLING'S HOLLY, SPINELESS YUCCA, VERY INDICATIVE OF NORTH FLORIDA AND SAINT AUGUSTINE AS A WHOLE. AND THEN JUST WALKING THROUGH THE PLAN, WE ONE OF THE LAST THINGS I'LL MENTION ABOUT THE PLANTS IS WE ALSO HAVE A GOOD ASSORTMENT OF POLLINATOR FRIENDLY PLANTS, FLOWERS AND NATIVE WILDFLOWERS AND SUCH. SO THAT'S WHAT YOU'LL SEE WHEN YOU FIRST ENTER FROM THE NORTH. A GOOD AMOUNT OF THOSE POLLINATORS THAT ARE ALSO RIGHT NEARBY THE PRODUCTIVE GARDEN, WHICH IS RIGHT UP AGAINST THE HOUSE AND THOSE TWO GARDENS WILL WORK REALLY WELL TOGETHER. THE POLLINATOR PLANTS WILL HELP MOVE POLLINATORS NEARBY THE PRODUCTIVE GARDENS AND HELP WITH PRODUCTION. AND THEN MOVING INTO THAT GARDEN PATH THAT WE TALKED ABOUT ALONG THE EAST EDGE OF THE BUILDING.

THAT'S WHERE YOU'LL SEE A LOT OF THOSE MORE BEAUTIFUL SHRUBS, GARDEN ELEMENTS, VINES ON THE WALLS, A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A GARDEN PATH, WALK EXPERIENCE, AND THEN THE MAIN PATH THAT PUTS YOU INTO THE CENTER OF THE GATHERING AREA. YOU'LL SEE THOSE BIG SHADE TREES, THE CABBAGE PALMS, AND AT THE END YOU'LL SEE SOME OF THOSE MORE ORNAMENTAL ROSES AND COLOR FOR THE FRONT OF THE STAGE. SO ALL IN ALL, YOU'LL HAVE A REALLY GOOD MIX OF STRUCTURAL PLANTINGS, GARDEN PLANTINGS, PRODUCTIVE PLANTINGS, AND THAT WILL HOPEFULLY MAKE THE HOUSE VERY SUITABLE FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES. HISTORICAL EDUCATION ABOUT THE BUILDING AND WHAT IT WAS USED FOR, BUT ALSO FOR EVENTS AND WEDDINGS AND THAT KIND OF THING THAT THEY HOPE TO PUT ON HERE. SO THANK YOU. ALRIGHTY. THE NEXT SHE JUST HAS SOME NICE PICTURES OF WHAT ALL

[02:50:03]

AND THERE HAS BEEN A TON OF RESEARCH THAT THE UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA HAS DONE IN TERMS OF TAKING ESSENTIALLY AN AIRBOAT, CREATING HURRICANE FORCE WINDS AND TRYING TO BLOW DOWN TREES.

AND EDITOR GILMAN HAS BEEN LEADING THE CHARGE ON THAT. AND THIS IS ONE THAT SHOWS THAT IT CREATES THE STRONGEST ROOT STRUCTURE. BECAUSE WHAT'S REALLY FASCINATING ABOUT THIS IS IF YOU ONLY STABILIZE THE ROOT BALL VERSUS THE STRAPS THAT YOU NORMALLY SEE, THE ACTUAL TRUNK CAN MOVE WHEN THE BREEZE COMES THROUGH, WHICH SPURS ROOT GROWTH. AND THEN THE TWO BY TWO UNTREATED PINE ROTS AWAY. AND SO INSTEAD OF HAVING GIRDLING OF EITHER THE ROOT BALL OR THE TRUNK AND THE BRANCHES, WHEN FOLKS LEAVE THE STAKING UP WAY TOO LONG, THIS JUST GOES AWAY. IT'S OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MIND. SO AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO USE AS MANY BEST PRACTICES IN OUR ROLE AS THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY AS WE CAN. YES, MA'AM. ASK A QUESTION.

HOW DO YOU INSTALL THAT? SO IT'S ESSENTIALLY THAT YOU TAKE THE TWO BY TWO STAKES, YOU MOLD THEM INTO THE GROUND, AND THEN YOU JUST TAKE SCREWS AND YOU JUST TACK IN THE OTHER TWO BY TWO CROSS PIECE. AND SO THERE'S ONE ON EACH SIDE OF THE ROOT BALL. SO IT'S TWO OF THESE KIND OF YOU BRACKETS. SO IT HAS TO BE WITH A NEW TREE, BUT YOU CAN'T DO IT TO EXISTING. GREAT QUESTION. OKAY, SO A NEW TREE AND REALLY ANYTHING THAT IS 12FT AND SHORTER IN TERMS OF TREES THAT GO IN, THIS HAS BEEN SHOWN TO WORK REALLY, REALLY WELL. SO ANYWAY, WE'RE, WE'RE BIG PROPONENTS OF IT. AND AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO LOOK AT ALL THE VARIOUS WAYS THAT WE CAN SET A GOOD EXAMPLE HERE AS THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY. AND OF COURSE, IT'S A CITY OWNED PROPERTY. SO WE TAKE THAT VERY SERIOUSLY. THE LIGHTING PLAN. WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF UPLIGHTING ON THE OAK CANOPY, PARTICULARLY IN THE NORTHEAST AND THE SOUTHEAST CORNERS. AS Y'ALL MIGHT KNOW, THAT REALLY IS UP AGAINST OUR NEIGHBORS OVER AT THE NATIONAL GUARD. SO WE'RE KEEPING THE LIGHT AWAY FROM OUR RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORS WHILE STILL REALLY ACCENTING THE LOVELY PLANT MATERIAL, THE NEW FOUR TREES. WE DO HAVE A COUPLE OF UPLIGHTS ON EACH ONE OF THOSE, SO THAT CAN THE LIGHTS WITHIN THE CORE OF THE SPACE. ANYONE WHO HAS PROBABLY SEEN ME COME UP FRONT OF THIS BOARD BEFORE. I DO LOVE FESTOON LIGHTING. I THINK THAT IT ADDS A JUST LOVELY SECONDARY CEILING, ALMOST OF LIGHT. AND SO WE WOULD LOVE TO USE IN A PERMANENT INSTALLATION BETWEEN THE PALM TREES AS WELL AS THE PERGOLA. JUST A SIMPLE BLACK FESTOON LIGHT. AND YOU CAN SEE OUR DETAIL IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT THERE. AND THEN WE DO HAVE SOME SMALL STEP LIGHTS, LED STRIP LIGHTS, AND ALL OF THESE ARE LED FIXTURES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. SO JUST ANOTHER WAY THAT WE CAN SET A GOOD EXAMPLE. SO I'LL JUST TAKE A FEW MOMENTS. MAKE SURE THAT I'VE HIT ALL THE POINTS THAT I HEARD FROM BOTH MISS COURTNEY AND FROM YOU ALL LAST TIME. THE PERVIOUS CONCRETE WE SPOKE ABOUT THAT ALL THE LIGHTING, 2700 KELVIN, SOFT WHITE, SO THAT WARM WHITE COLOR. WE DID TALK ABOUT THE ARCHEOLOGY REVIEW AND THEN A LITTLE BIT MORE OF THE BACKGROUND IN TERMS OF THE LANDSCAPE. MARCIA CHANCE DID A WONDERFUL PRESENTATION TO THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. THERE WERE PLANS THAT I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO A REALLY GOOD HISTORY HERE IN THE CITY. I LEARNED A LOT FROM IT, SO IT WAS FUN TO SEE. BUT THE ITEMS WE TALKED ABOUT LAST TIME, THE COURTYARD BEING TWO PRIMARY IN THE DESIGN, HOW WE COULD BREAK THAT UP. I HOPE THAT YOU'VE SEEN THAT.

WE'VE DONE THAT. AND MISS DUNCAN, I THINK THAT YOU AND I ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT THIS COQUINA CONCRETE WITH THE BRICK LINING THE STAGE BEING A MORE PERMANENT FEATURE WE TALKED ABOUT IN MR. MCDONNELL, YOU MENTIONED YOU DON'T WANT THE FINAL DESIGN TO FEEL LIKE IT'S TOO MANICURED. I HOPE THAT YOU'LL SEE THAT THERE'S A SOFTNESS, THAT IT'S A GARDEN THAT WE'VE REALLY CREATED BACK THERE, AND THE BERMS TO HELP BACKFILL SOME OF THE WALLS. MR. BEACHY HAD MENTIONED ABOUT CREATING LOWER CONTRAST BY USING THE COQUINA CONCRETE AS OPPOSED TO THE BRICK PATHS, MORE SHADE TREES. AND THEN WE DID MAKE A BETTER CONNECTION.

AND I KIND OF SKIPPED OVER THIS, BUT BETWEEN THE WELL AREA AND THE PLAZA, WE ADDED A SECONDARY

[02:55:03]

SO A LOT TO DIGEST. WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND WE'RE HERE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. AWESOME.

THANK YOU. AT THIS TIME, I'LL OPEN IT UP FOR THE PUBLIC FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. IS THERE ANYONE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THIS PROJECT? I'M SEEING ONE, MR. CRITCHLOW, COME ON UP. I JUST DO. I NEED TO GET SWORN IN. OKAY. I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I AM CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE SAINT AUGUSTINE HISTORICAL SOCIETY, AND I WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES IS 100% BEHIND THIS DESIGN. WE THINK IT WOULD GREATLY ENHANCE THE HISTORICAL AMBIANCE OF THE PROPERTY, AND WE REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO IMPLEMENTING THIS DESIGN IN, YOU KNOW, IN THE COUPLE OF YEARS TO COME. SO WE'RE 100% BEHIND IT AS A BOARD, AND WE HOPE YOU LOOK FAVORABLY UPON THESE SUGGESTIONS. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE, MISS MIKE CLARK? COME ON UP. MARTHA EICHLER, 30 SPANISH STREET. I NEED TO BE SWORN IN.

YES. OKAY. DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU'RE ABOUT TO GIVE IS THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH? YES, I DO, I'M A MEMBER OF THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY BOARD OF TRUSTEES, AND AS MR. CRITCHLOW SAID, THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES IS 100% BEHIND THIS PROJECT. SO I'M HERE AS A MEMBER OF THAT BOARD ASKING YOU TO APPROVE OUR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS. WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO MOVING FROM THE PLANNING STAGE TO THE ACTION STAGE AND SEEING THIS HAPPEN IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS. I DO WANT TO SAY THAT MEGAN AND JEREMY AND HIS STAFF HAVE TAKEN MANY OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS, AND I WAS HERE AT THAT LAST MEETING, AND THEY TOOK YOUR SUGGESTIONS AND, I BELIEVE, IMPLEMENTED THEM INTO THIS DESIGN THAT WAS PRESENTED TO YOU TODAY. ALSO, AS A LONG TIME RESIDENT OF SAINT AUGUSTINE AND GOING TO MANY EVENTS AND FUNCTIONS IN THAT GARDEN AT THE LLAMBIAS HOUSE. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THIS MAJOR IMPROVEMENT. I THINK IT WILL BE AN ASSET TO OUR HISTORIC CITY. WE APPRECIATE ALL YOUR SUGGESTIONS AND YOUR SUPPORT, AND LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING THIS PROJECT CONTINUE.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THIS PROJECT? OKAY. SEEING NO ONE ELSE. SO I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND OPEN IT UP FOR THE BOARD DISCUSSION. ALL RIGHT. EXCITING PROJECT. LET ME JUST START. OKAY. OR DO YOU WANT TO START? OKAY, SO JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. SO ON THE SITE PLAN ON L 1.1. SO WHERE YOU'RE PUTTING THE BERMS, IT SAYS A SIX FOOT HIGH WOOD FENCE, BUT THEN YOU HAVE YOUR DETAIL IS LIKE A RETAINING WALL. CORRECT. SO IT'S THREE FEET OF RETAINING WALL AND THEN IT GOES UP ANOTHER THREE FEET TO PROVIDE THE SIX FOOT FENCE. AND SO IT'S IT'S BOTH ESSENTIALLY IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO. SO THE, THE FENCE IS BUILT LIKE ON THE PROPERTY LINE. SO THE PROPERTY ADJACENT WOULD SEE JUST A FENCE. CORRECT. OKAY. AND IN THE AREAS WHERE THERE IS NO BERM, HAVE YOU DONE, HAVE YOU USED ONE OF THESE BERMS BEFORE? WE HAVE NOW THIS IS A FAIRLY BEEFY ONE THAT WE'RE PUTTING IN IN TERMS OF THE LENGTH AND HOW EXTENSIVE IT IS. MOST OF THE BERMS THAT WE'VE DONE IN THE PAST HAVE BEEN TRUE EARTHEN BERMS THAT GO UP AND THEN BACK DOWN. IT'S JUST THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM TO ACCOMPLISH THAT. WELL. AND SO THAT'S WHERE THIS LOW WOOD RETAINING WALL. AND ALEX SWANSON, OUR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER, HAS BEEN WORKING WITH US ON THAT AND US TO CUT IT IN HALF. AND THIS WILL KEEP THE WATER OUT OF THIS SPACE. WELL, YES, MA'AM. UP TO THREE FEET. AND MY ONLY QUESTION IS THE AREA WHERE YOU HAVE THE ONE

[03:00:05]

SO WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE SOME INLETS THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH OUR CIVIL ENGINEERING TO PROVIDE A LITTLE BIT OF PASSAGEWAY TO THE EAST AND TO THE SOUTH. BUT WHAT WE'RE ALSO DOING IS WE'RE BUILDING UP THE ENTIRETY OF THE SOUTHERN PLAZA, THIS SECTION, SO THAT WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF CAPACITY SO WE CAN SHEET FLOW IT AND ACTUALLY KIND OF GET IT UNDERNEATH ESSENTIALLY THAT SPACE. SO WE'RE PROVIDING POSITIVE DRAINAGE AWAY FROM THE HOUSE.

SO THERE'S A BUTT UP AT THE TOP IN THAT CORNER. GO TO THE YEAH, TO THE FAR LEFT THERE. NO. WELL BACK UP IN THAT CORNER OVER HERE. YEAH. THAT HOW ARE YOU KEEPING IT FROM THE STREET? BECAUSE I'M JUST PICTURING I'M NOT. WHAT IS THE IS THERE A WALL THERE. CORRECT. SO THAT WOULD HAVE ANOTHER DEPLOYABLE FLOODGATE IN THAT SECTION. OKAY. AND THEN IT COMING DOWN TO THE ONE STORY, COQUINA BUILDING ALSO IS AN EXISTING WALL THAT WILL KEEP THE FLOODWATER OUT.

YES, MA'AM. OKAY. WHERE I JUST PUT IN THE BLUE, THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE DEPLOYABLE FLOODGATES. OKAY, OKAY. THAT'S GREAT. AND IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE BERM, WOULD THE WATER STAY OUT IF WE DIDN'T HAVE THE BERM, IT IT MIGHT IT WOULD BECOME A MUCH DIFFERENT WALL IN THAT CASE, BECAUSE THE BERMS ACTUALLY PROVIDING A LOT OF THAT STATIC PRESSURE BEHIND THIS WOOD RETAINING WALL FENCE HYBRID SO THAT WHEN WE GET THE STORM SURGE COMING IN, IF IT WAS JUST A WOODEN RETAINING WALL, LIKELY THE PRESSURE WOULD OVERWHELM IT. SO WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT MORE OF A CONCRETE RETAINING WALL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THE BERM IS PROVIDING THAT BACKFILL. SO WHAT KEEPS THE ORIGINAL WALLS THAT ARE THERE FROM HAVING THAT ISSUE? SURE. WELL, AND THAT'S PART OF I'M ACTUALLY GOING TO KIND OF GO FROM NORTH TO SOUTH BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, FOR INSTANCE, THAT COQUINA WALL HAS BEEN THERE FOR SOME TIME. WE TALKED ABOUT WITH THEIR STRUCTURAL ENGINEER. THERE ARE WAYS THAT WE CAN HOOK INTO AND TRY TO GET A LOAD PRESSURE. BUT HE SAID THAT SOMETIMES THAT CAN BE MORE DAMAGING THAN HELPFUL. AND SO THAT'S WHERE, FOR INSTANCE, ON THE NORTH SIDE, WHERE WE HAVE THE LONGEST OF THESE COQUINA WALLS, WHERE WE'RE PUTTING THE BERM UP AGAINST IT, SO THAT FOR THAT FIRST THREE FEET, THERE'S JUST THAT IT'S JUST KIND OF LIKE PRESSING AGAINST A DOOR TO KEEP IT FROM OPENING. SO WE'RE CREATING A LITTLE BIT OF BACKFILL ON THAT WALL. AND THEN AS YOU COME AROUND TO THE MASONRY WALL, WE'RE REINFORCING THAT NORTHEAST CORNER THAT YOU CAN SEE RIGHT ABOVE WHERE IT SAYS H S 104 WITH A LITTLE BIT OF BERM ON THAT SECTION. AND THEN WE'RE ALSO REINFORCING THAT MASONRY WALL WITH A LITTLE BIT OF EARTH. SO WE'RE TRYING NOT TO PUT, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO CREATE A PROBLEM WHERE WE'RE PUTTING WEIGHT AGAINST WALLS. BUT THAT'S WHERE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER WAS VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THE THREE FOOT LEVEL THAT WE'RE NOT SURCHARGING ON THE WALL, BUT WE ARE HELPING WHEN THE SURGE COMES IN, STORM SURGE TO KEEP THE WALL IN PLACE. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION, BUT NO, I MEAN, IT'S VERY TECHNICAL, SO IT'S HARD TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, BUT IT JUST SEEMS LIKE IF YOU'RE DOING ALL THIS WITH THE BERMS, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THE WHOLE THING DOESN'T HAVE A WEAK POINT, YOU KNOW, OF AN ORIGINAL COCAINE, A WALL THAT WOULD JUST HAVE THE WATER, YOU KNOW, COME THROUGH. BUT THAT'S IT'S INTERESTING. IT'S VERY INTERESTING. AND MR. DUNCAN, THE EAST AND THE SOUTH WALLS ARE CMU MASONRY AND A NUMBER OF THEM, INCLUDING, FOR INSTANCE, THIS WALL RIGHT HERE, IT WAS ACTUALLY BUILT WITHIN ABOUT THE PAST 12 TO 20 YEARS.

AND SO THOSE WEREN'T WALLS THAT WE WERE AS CONCERNED ABOUT THAT COQUINA WALL. WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. FOR INSTANCE, IF WE PUT THE FLOODGATES IN NOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE'S NO POP OFF VALVE THAT THERE IS TODAY WHERE YOU HAVE THE GATES. AND SO WE DIDN'T WANT TO CREATE THIS BARRIER, AND THE WATER HAS NO PLACE TO GO EXCEPT TO MOVE THE WALL. AND SO THAT'S WHERE OUR

[03:05:05]

THEY'RE GOOD THOUGHTS. SO THE REALLY PRIMARY LAWN SPACE, YOU CAN SEE THAT KIND OF DARKER GREEN THAT WE DID WANT TO SOFTEN IT UP JUST A LITTLE BIT, BECAUSE I THINK THAT YOU'RE RIGHT THAT THERE'S THESE KIND OF SOFTER ELEMENTS AND HISTORIC LANDSCAPES, ESPECIALLY IN SAINT AUGUSTINE. AND SO WE DO HAVE SOME LAWN AREAS. LET ME ZOOM OUT JUST A LITTLE BIT THAT ARE REALLY CONNECTING IN BETWEEN THE LOBBYIST HOUSE ITSELF AND THEN THE REST OF THE GARDEN.

BUT THERE WERE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT MADE IT, I GUESS WE WERE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE BALANCING THE FUNCTION OF THE SPACE, THE ADA ACCESSIBILITY, HAVING KIND OF TWO ZONES. SO FOR INSTANCE, HOW IT'S CURRENTLY OPERATED, WHEN A WEDDING IN PARTICULAR, AND THIS, THIS IS A WELL KNOWN WEDDING VENUE THAT YOU HAVE KIND OF THE CEREMONY AREA, AND THEN YOU HAVE A PLACE WHERE YOU NEED TABLES AND CHAIRS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, JUST COCKTAILS, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE WERE TRYING TO HAVE THIS LARGER AREA. AND THEN THE MORE I WAS LOOKING AT MAGNUS'S DRAWINGS, IN PARTICULAR, A LOT OF THESE HOMES, THE OUTDOOR SPACES WERE FAIRLY RECTILINEAR, ALMOST UTILITARIAN IN TERMS OF THEIR LAYOUT, THAT IT WAS LIKE, OKAY, THIS IS THE CLOSEST WAY IS A TO B, AND SO WE WERE TRYING THAT.

I'LL TELL YOU, I IN SOME OF OUR INITIAL SKETCHES, WE HAD PLAYED WITH THIS AREA AND KIND OF SOFTENING THAT. BUT THE CEDAR TREE IS SO SPECIAL THERE. AND SO I WAS TRYING TO HOLD OFF OF, AND IT'S ACTUALLY KIND OF RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BLUE. SO THERE'S THIS HUGE CEDAR TREE THROUGHOUT HERE. AND SO I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT I WASN'T GETTING INTO THAT ROOT SYSTEM MORE THAN I COULD. SO THAT WAS PART OF WHERE WE KEPT COMING BACK TO MAYBE THE AXIS

[03:10:04]

AND THERE'S A RETAINING WALL. ONCE IN A WHILE, SOMEONE HITS THAT IN A CAR BECAUSE THEY DON'T STOP ON THE CORNER AND THE WALL DOESN'T MOVE. SO THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD INDICATOR OF THE STRENGTH. SO I THINK THE BERMS WILL WORK WELL. SO ANYWAY, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT. I JUST I LOVE THE LANDSCAPE BECAUSE I'M NUTS ABOUT THAT. AND I REALLY APPRECIATED WHAT MRS. DUNCAN SAID HERE IN REGARDS TO THE SOFTNESS UP TO THE BUILDING, MAYBE SOME CURVATURE IN THE PATH JUST TO BREAK THAT LINEAR LINE. I THINK THAT GOES A LONG WAY. I WILL SAY, WHEN YOU LOOK DOWN ON IT, AND I THINK IT WOULD APPLY WHEN YOU'RE IN IT, WITH THE AMOUNT OF LANDSCAPING AND TREES, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE AS AWARE OF THIS HARDSCAPE AS IT LOOKS WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT IN THE PLAN. BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, IT LOOKS LIKE A LOT, BUT IN REALITY, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY SOFTENED BY THE TREE SCAPE. SO I THINK THE WHOLE THING, I LOVE ALL THE PLANTS TOO. THEY'RE JUST ALL DIFFERENT. YOU DO LIST PERMEABLE CONCRETE WHERE I BELIEVE IT IS SHELL CREEK, AM I CORRECT OR IS IT A PERMEABLE SHELL CREEK? GREAT QUESTION. SO WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH A COUPLE DIFFERENT CONCRETE MASONS TO SEE IF WE CAN DO ESSENTIALLY PERVIOUS CONCRETE LOOKS LIKE RICE KRISPIES WHEN IT'S PUT OUT, AND THEN TAKE SHELL AND BROADCAST ON TOP. I'M NOT POSITIVE THAT'S GOING TO WORK, BECAUSE THE CONCERN IS

[03:15:02]

SO IT'S THE STONE AGGREGATE, BUT THAT IT LEAVES THE VOIDS IN THERE FOR THE WATER TO GO THROUGH. SO DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE PERMEABLE COEFFICIENT IS ROUGHLY COMPARED TO? I MEAN, LET'S JUST SAY CONCRETE 100%. SURE. IT'S TYPICALLY IT'S AND IT KIND OF VARIES WHEN IT'S FIRST IN. I'VE SEEN IT BE AS GOOD AS LIKE IT'S A 60% VERSUS 100% THAT YOU GET 40% PERVIOUS OUT OF IT. IT USUALLY FILLS OVER TIME, THOUGH. YOU GET FINES. IT DOES REQUIRE SOME MAINTENANCE, BUT TYPICALLY YOU CAN STILL GET A 10 TO 20% FACTOR COEFFICIENT BETTER THAN THE 100%. JUST TRADITIONAL. JUST INTERESTING BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW. ALL RIGHT. THE LIBRARY THAT'S OVER BY DAVENPORT PARK IS ONE OF THE FIRST PERVIOUS CONCRETE APPLICATIONS IN THE CITY. AND IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE IT'S BEEN IN THERE, I THINK 30 YEARS OR SO AT THIS POINT. AND YOU CAN SEE VARIOUS LEVELS OF SUCCESS WITH IT, SOME OF IT THAT IT'S COMPLETELY CLOGGED AND OTHERS IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S STILL FUNCTIONING. SO IT'S AN INTERESTING PRODUCT. SO THAT'S 30 YEARS BECAUSE WE DID THAT AT THE RAINTREE AND THAT WAS 45 YEARS AGO. ALL RIGHT. WELL, THEN I THINK THE BEGINNING OF IT, AND WE DID HAVE SOME PROBLEM BECAUSE IT WAS ACTUALLY TWO PERVIOUS. AND OF COURSE THE WATER WENT THROUGH AND WASHED OUT UNDERNEATH THE CONCRETE. THAT CAN'T HAPPEN. AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS. SO THAT COEFFICIENT HAS GOT TO BE IN THE RIGHT PLACE. RIGHT. I'M GOING TO HAVE A LOOK AT DAVENPORT PARK. THAT'S INTERESTING. HARDSCAPE GREW UP BY TREES. BASELINE EDGING.

BRICK EDGING NICE CLEAN. YOU WANT TO GET A BIT MORE COLONIAL. COQUINA ALMOST LIKE SMALL ROCKS.

I MEAN YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE A TRIP HAZARD. AND THE BRICK IS CLEAN. I DON'T WANT TO DEAL INTO THAT TOO MUCH BECAUSE CURVING THE PATH A BIT, SOME OF THE THINGS YOU JUST CAUGHT MY MIND WITH THE PICTURE, ACTUALLY, AND JUST HOW RUSTIC THAT LOOKED. BUT THIS IS A WEDDING VENUE AS WELL. I GET THAT THE PERGOLA THERE WAS MENTIONED FROM STAFF THAT IT'S OUT OF SCALE IN, IN LIGHT OF ITS CONTEXT, IT'S NOT ACTUALLY IT WORKS FOR WHAT IT'S DESIGNED FOR. SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY ISSUES THERE. THE LAMPPOSTS ARE CORRECT. THE ASSEMBLY IS CORRECT, I THINK. I THINK THAT'S ALL GOOD. YEAH. I THINK IT'S AS USUAL, A PRETTY BLOODY GOOD PLAN. WELL THANK YOU. I THINK IT'LL LOOK FANTASTIC. WHEN ARE WE GOING TO BUILD IT, MISS POTTER? YES.

WELL, I AGREE WITH THE IDEA OF SOFTENING THE LANDSCAPE, GIVING IT MORE OF AN ENGLISH COUNTRYSIDE GARDEN LOOK, AS OPPOSED TO VERSAILLES. BUT I ALSO HAVE SOME. A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. THE ORIGINAL PERGOLA. WHAT IS THE WOOD FOR THE ORIGINAL PERGOLA? IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S JUST PRESSURE TREATED PINE THAT'S BEEN PAINTED. SO IT IS NOT IN TERRIBLY GOOD SHAPE. SO WE'RE HOPING TO REFINISH IT. BUT AND THE NEW PERGOLA IS GOING TO BE TREATED PINE. WHY NOT CEDAR. SO THE CEDAR POSTS ARE HARD TO COME BY. THE CEDAR UPPER PORTIONS I COULD SEE. BUT THEN WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY WANT TO HAVE TWO DIFFERENT COLORED AND AGING WOOD TYPES RIGHT NEXT TO ONE ANOTHER. SO THAT'S WHY WE JUST WENT WITH THE PRESSURE TREATED PINE THROUGHOUT. BUT THAT'S AT LEAST WHAT OUR THOUGHT WAS. WHAT IS THE LIFE EXPECTANCY OF TREATED PINE? IN

[03:20:01]

THESE ARE EIGHT INCH ROUND POSTS. THE LIFE EXPECTANCY EXPECTANCY WERE ANTICIPATED TO BE MUCH LONGER BECAUSE THERE'S JUST A LOT MORE WOOD THERE TO FRANKLY ROT AND BE IMPACTED. SO I'M HOPING THAT WHAT WE'VE DESIGNED IS AT LEAST A 20 YEAR KIND OF A PERGOLA. BUT ANYTIME YOU PUT WOOD IN GROUND CONTACT, IT'S CHALLENGING IN FLORIDA. YES. AND BEING FROM NEW ORLEANS, I ALWAYS HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE EFFECT OF HUMIDITY ON ON WOOD. YES. I'VE ASKED YOU ALSO ABOUT THE OAK TREES, BUT OKAY. MY OTHER QUESTION IS. THE LIGHTING. YES. THE DO THE FESTOON LIGHTS HAVE TO BE PERMANENT? COULD THEY JUST BE PUT UP WHENEVER THERE'S AN EVENT THEY COULD BE PUT UP WHEN THERE'S AN EVENT? THE ADVANTAGE, JUST FRANKLY, FOR THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY IS IF WE CAN LEAVE THEM UP, WE DO HAVE LIMITED STAFF AND LIMITED RESOURCES. SO THAT'S JUST ONE FEWER THING THAT WE NEED TO BE OUT THERE PUTTING UP. AND SO THAT WAY, IF WE HAVE JUST A SPEAKER SERIES THAT WE'RE ABLE TO CREATE THAT AMBIANCE WITH THE FLICK OF A SWITCH VERSUS NEEDING TO PUT THEM UP AND DOWN. SO THAT'S WHY THE REQUEST WAS THEY BE PERMANENT. BUT WELL, IF THEY ARE PERMANENT, WILL THEY BE ON ALL THE TIME? NO, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. SO THIS WOULD BE WHEN THERE'S EVENTS, AND I THINK THAT ALL THE EVENTS TYPICALLY ARE WRAPPED UP BY WHAT TIME. MEGAN. BY 9:00 IS THE LATEST EVENTS THAT WE WOULD HAVE. SO THERE WOULD BE A TIMER ON IT SO THAT THEY WOULD SHUT OFF AFTER 9:00. OKAY. THAT'S GOOD. AND ALSO, I'M LOOKING AT THE THE LISTING OF YOUR LIGHTS. YES, MA'AM. LIGHTING, CONTEMPORARY SERVICE MOUNT AND THE BRASS TEXTURED ARCHITECTURAL BRONZE LAMP. DO YOU HAVE EXAMPLES OF WHAT THOSE LOOK LIKE AND WHERE WOULD THEY GO? IT'S ON MLL44 .01. SO WE WERE USING THOSE AROUND THE STAGE ITSELF. AND THEN IT IS. LET ME GO BACK TO YOU. SORRY ABOUT THAT. SO THIS WAS AN ALTERNATIVE THAT WE WERE FINDING. I DO REALIZE THAT THIS PHOTO SHOWING THAT IT IS A BRUSHED NICKEL, BUT THAT'S WHERE THE CALL OUT THAT WE HAD ON THE OTHER SHEET, WHICH IS THE BRASS. IT'S THE I SHOULD HAVE BROUGHT YOU A SAMPLE. I'M SORRY. THAT'LL HAVE ONE. BUT IT'S THE SAME BRASS FIXTURE TYPE THAT WE'VE USED THROUGHOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHERE IT GETS A LITTLE BIT OF THAT KIND OF COPPERY, ALMOST PATINA TO IT, BUT IT'S A DARKER THAN WHAT YOU WOULD GET WITH A BRONZE AS AN EXAMPLE. SO OKAY. ALL RIGHT.

THAT EXPLAINS THAT. ONE FINAL QUESTION IS, IS ONE OF THE PLANTS THAT YOU'RE PUTTING IN? IS THE PASSION FLOWER? YES, YES, WHICH I LOVE. AND I ACTUALLY HAD ONE IN MY GARDEN AND IT JUST GREW TREMENDOUSLY. BUT I DID NOTICE ONE THING. IT ATTRACTS A LOT OF BEES. YES. SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF BEES BUZZING AROUND THAT AREA. WE KEPT IT VERY MUCH ON THE PERIPHERY, AND PART OF WHY WE DID THE POLLINATOR GARDEN UP WHEN YOU'RE COMING IN IS SO THAT THE MAIN GATHERING AREAS, WE WERE TRYING TO KEEP THOSE A LITTLE BIT LESS, SAY, BE FOCUSED. SO I THINK THAT'S REALLY FAIR COMMENT. YEAH, I MEAN, I LOVE BEES AND I'M GLAD THEY'RE THERE. BUT WE DO WANT TO WORRY ABOUT PEOPLE GETTING STUNG. STUNG. YES. FAIR POINT. I AGREE THANK YOU, MR. BLAKE. I THINK MOST OF MY COMMENTS ARE UP HERE BY THAT HISTORIC COQUINA WALL JUST TO THE LEFT OF THE HOUSE. IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT FROM THE STREET. SO I'M CURIOUS. I KNOW YOU'VE GOT PLANTS AND, AND THINGS ALL OVER,

[03:25:01]

SO IT WOULD BE SET ON OUR SIDE OF THE WOODEN GATES. SO THE WOODEN GATES ARE STILL GOING TO GET WET, BUT IT'S GOING TO HELP TO PROP UP THOSE WOODEN GATES SO THAT THEY THEY DON'T COLLAPSE. OKAY. I THINK THAT'S IT. I JUST CHIME IN ON YOUR PRESSURE TREATED PLEASE. I CAN'T NAME THE COMPANY, BUT GO NORTH ON ONE. THERE'S A COMPANY THAT SELLS WOOD FOR DOCKS. IT'S DESIGNED TO BE PUT IN SALTWATER AND STAY THERE. THAT'S WHERE YOU GET YOUR PRESSURE TREATED.

AND THEN WHEN YOU PUT IT IN THE GROUND, MAKE SURE YOU PUT GRAVEL UNDERNEATH IT, DROP IT IN AND THEN FILL IT UP WITH CONCRETE. THE CONCRETE WILL GO IN THE GRAVEL. YOU'VE NOW GOT IT COMPLETELY ENCASED, AND THEN GET ABOVE THE GRADE AND PUT A LITTLE BIT OF PITCH ON IT. AND THEN THE WATER THAT RUNS DOWN THE POST RUNS OFF. THE POST, DOESN'T GET WET. YOU'LL GET 20 TO 30 YEARS OUT OF A POST. EXCELLENT, I LOVE IT. GOOD TIP. I AGREE WITH EVERYONE'S COMMENTS. I THINK THE ONE ACTION ITEM WAS KIND OF AROUND THE, WELL, KIND OF REWORKING KIND OF THE LANDSCAPE AND HARDSCAPE. I WOULD BE CONCERNED WITH THE PERVIOUS CONCRETE WITH MAINTENANCE AND THE LOOK THAT YOU'RE LOOKING TO GET. I WOULD PROBABLY LEAN TOWARDS THE SHELL CONCRETE AS A CLEANER LOOK, BUT THAT'S MY KIND OF TAKE. IF YOU WERE TO DO THE PERVIOUS CONCRETE, CONCRETE, WOULD YOU HAVE TO GET WERE YOU LOOKING FOR ADMINISTRATIVE APPROVAL OR ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE A SAMPLE YOU SAID, OR ARE YOU HAVE TO COME BACK? WHAT WAS YOUR THOUGHTS ON KIND OF IF WE DID WANT TO LOOK AT THAT OTHER OPTION FOR CONCRETE. SURE. WELL, I GUESS WHAT MY HOPE WOULD BE, OR MY SUGGESTION IS THAT IF YOU ALL COULD APPROVE THE COQUINA CONCRETE, THE NORMAL EXPOSED AGGREGATE, BUT THAT WE COULD, IF STAFF WOULD BE WILLING TO DO THIS, THAT WE COULD WORK WITH STAFF WHEN WE GET TO THE POINT OF IMPLEMENTATION, TO ALSO EXPLORE A PERVIOUS COQUINA CONCRETE DIRECTLY WITH STAFF, MAYBE AS A TEST PROJECT. OKAY, IF YOU COULD GIVE US THAT LATITUDE, I THINK THAT IT'S AT LEAST WORTH LOOKING AT, BECAUSE WE CERTAINLY HAVE AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF HARDSCAPE, NOT THROUGHOUT DOWNTOWN. AND IF WE CAN FIND WAYS TO HAVE OUR CAKE AND EAT IT, TO HAVE A SHELL CONCRETE, BUT HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOU KNOW, POROSITY TO IT, IT'D BE NICE. SO ARE WE GOING TO HAVE ANY DESIGNS COMING BACK WITH SOME AREA AROUND THE WELL TO THE BOARD IN TERMS OF THIS EXPLORATION? I MEAN THIS IS PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT IN THE FUTURE FOR US AS WE'RE RAISING THE FUNDS TO THEN IMPLEMENT IT.

BUT WE HAVE HAD THOSE CONVERSATIONS. I WOULD BE HAPPY TO COME BACK TO THE BOARD. I'M JUST THINKING TO GET SOME SAMPLES OF THESE DIFFERENT FINISHES. YOU KNOW, TO ME THAT WOULD BE SUPER HELPFUL BECAUSE, I MEAN, WE SEE IT IN, I'M SURE MY HEAD HAS A DIFFERENT BUBBLE THAN EVERYBODY. I MEAN, WE NORMALLY NEED TO SEE THE FINISHES, YOU KNOW. YEAH, I AGREE. SO THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. AND MAYBE SEEING SOME OF THE REDESIGN AND THEN. THE LOCATION OF THE FESTOON LIGHTS. I MEAN, DON'T WE NEED SOME KIND OF A LIGHTING PLAN. BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE WHEN YOU START HANGING LIGHTS UP LIKE THAT, IT CAN CHANGE THE LOOK. WE HAVE A LOT.

YEAH. AND SO LIKE, WHERE ARE THEY GOING? WHAT'S THE IS IT JUST IS IN THE APPLICATION FOR 4.01 HAS THE FESTOON LIGHTS. YEAH. IT'S THE ZIGZAG. YEAH. AND 4.02. SO THE THERE'S A PLAN WITH THE LIGHTS. 014.01. MAYBE THE PAGE AHEAD THERE. IT'S THE APPLICATION PAGE. 237 AND YOUR

[03:30:04]

THAT'S JUST A THOUGHT. OKAY, I DON'T I'VE SEEN IT BEFORE THAT MY HUSBAND DID. IT STARTS TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU CAN SEE IT HANGING AND IT LOOKS REAL. I DON'T KNOW, I THINK I THINK YOU COULD GET THE SAME LOOK IN BOTH PODS TO BOTH SIDES OF THE SIDEWALK WITHOUT IT GOING ACROSS. I HAVE NO OBJECTION TO THAT. OKAY, THAT'S JUST MY THOUGHT. I WOULD POINT OUT THAT ALL THE FESTOON LIGHT IS ACTUALLY WITHIN THE CANOPY. CANOPY GOES AROUND IT. THE FESTOON LIGHT IS INSIDE OF IT. IT'S GOING TO MAKE A LOT OF DIFFERENCE FOR THE NEIGHBORS.

YEAH. NO, AS LONG AS IT'S WITHIN. I MEAN, IN FACT, IF YOU JUST DID IT IN PLACE WITH THE CANOPY, TO ME, THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO DO IT VERSUS SHOW IT AND HOPE THE CANOPY IS THERE BECAUSE THE FEET, THE TREES ARE YOU'RE PUTTING IN ARE ONLY MAX 12, LIKE 12FT HIGH, RIGHT? SO IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE HUGE, BIG TREES. CORRECT. NOW, THE PALM TREES THAT WERE CONNECTING INTO WILL GIVE US A LITTLE BIT MORE HEIGHT TO IT. AND WE'VE ONLY CONNECTED THE FESTOON TO THOSE.

BUT THEN YOU ARE RIGHT THAT THE UPLIGHTING FOR THE OAK TREES, THOSE ARE PROBABLY 12 FOOT WHEN THEY FIRST COME IN. RIGHT. LAST THING ON IRRIGATION. I KNOW YOU TOUCHED ON IT BRIEFLY.

IRRIGATION IS LIKE A DRIP IRRIGATION, JEREMY. OR OR HOW HOW DEEP IS IT IN THE GROUND? I KNOW MISS POTTER IS KIND OF PROBABLY WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE ARCHEOLOGICAL, YOU KNOW, COMPONENT OF THIS PROJECT. WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP EVERYTHING KIND OF ON A SURFACE LEVEL, THAT SORT OF THING. SO WHAT WAS YOUR VISION ON THE IRRIGATION AND KIND OF THE ZONING? AND THAT WE'RE USING THE BERMS FOR MOST OF THE PIPING SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO DIG DOWN FOR A MAJORITY OF IT. THERE ARE AREAS WHERE WE'LL BE CROSSING INTO THE CENTER PART OF THE GARDEN, WHERE WE WOULD BE MAKING THOSE THOSE CONNECTIONS IS EVERYTHING ACROSS THE BOARD, LIKE ON THE WHOLE PROPERTY IRRIGATED, OR IS THERE SOME AREAS THAT DON'T NEED THE IRRIGATION? THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT ONCE THE AIR, THE PLANTS ARE ESTABLISHED, THEY WON'T NEED EXTENSIVE IRRIGATION. SO WE WILL PROBABLY DO A COMBINATION OF TEMPORARY IRRIGATION IN THE MOST ARCHEOLOGICALLY SENSITIVE AREAS. AND FOR INSTANCE, AROUND THE CEDAR TREE. I DON'T WANT TO START CHOPPING UP THOSE ROOTS TO PUT IN IRRIGATION LINES. SO THAT WILL BE A TEMPORARY IRRIGATION SYSTEM ALONG THE BERMS THEMSELVES. WE'RE GOING TO BE USING MICRO SPRAYS. I'M TENDING TO LIKE THOSE BETTER THAN THE DRIP IRRIGATION, BECAUSE THE DRIP IRRIGATION WAS FRANKLY PUTTING DOWN A LOT OF PLASTIC ON OUR GARDENS. AND I THINK THAT THE THE MICRO SPRAYS CAN DELIVER THAT STILL POINT SOURCE, BUT WITHOUT HAVING ALL THAT TUBING. YEAH. BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE BERMS, THAT THOSE PLANTS ARE ALWAYS HEALTHY BECAUSE THAT WHOLE ROOT SYSTEM IS PART OF WHAT'S STABILIZING THE BERM AS A RESILIENCY INFRASTRUCTURE. OKAY, OKAY. THAT SOUNDS GREAT. MOVING FORWARD. BOARD, ARE WE CONTINUING THIS PROJECT OR BE GOOD TO DO THAT, TO KIND OF ADDRESS SOME OF THESE FOCUSED ITEMS? ARE YOU GOOD WITH THAT? I YES, I THINK THAT THE ONLY SIGNIFICANT PIECE OF REDESIGN, IF, UNLESS I MISS SOMETHING, IS THAT WE WERE GOING TO TAKE THE PATIO AROUND THE WELL AND EXPAND THE PLANTING AREAS. YES.

SO OR LAWN, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING WAS JUST MORE GREEN SCAPE, LIKE JUST KIND OF OPEN THE WAY IT IS.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO PUT MORE PLANTS NECESSARILY, BUT IT'S KIND OF UNDER THE TREE. YOU WERE SAYING. SO MAYBE JUST KIND OF LIKE THE SHADY AREA THAT'S IN THE BACK NOW, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALL I SEE WHERE IT'S JUST KIND OF OPEN AND MORE WITHOUT HAVING MORE WITHOUT PLANTS, PROBABLY LAWN. AND IT'S IF THIS IS HELPFUL AT ALL, WE'RE HAPPY TO COME BACK TO YOU ALL. WE'RE ALSO HAPPY IF YOU'D RATHER US WORK WITH STAFF TO MAKE THAT RESOLUTION TO THE PLAN THAT THAT MIGHT IF IF YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE AND THAT'S YOUR

[03:35:01]

BUT SURE, LET'S JUST LEAVE IT. I THINK THAT CAN STAY WITH. CAN YOU PUT UP THE PLAN, PLEASE? SURE. JUST SO WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE. AND I WOULD LIKE TO UNDERSTAND, MR. MARCUS, ABOUT THE PERMEABLE CONCRETE. DOES THAT REQUIRE ANY ADDITIONAL DRAINAGE AREA? KIND OF LIKE PERMEABLE PAVERS. YES, IT DOES, AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THAT WE KIND OF I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT, BUT LIKE DEEPER YOU HAVE TO DIG DEEPER TO. YEAH. AND THAT'S GENERALLY SOMETHING THAT'S A BIG CONCERN FOR ARCHEOLOGY. SO JUST BE AWARE OF THAT. IT'S GOT A GOOD RETAINING WALL. YEAH. IT TAKES WITH A REGULAR CONCRETE SHELL JUST CONCRETE SHELL CREEK.

I THINK THAT'S FINE. AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO ALMOST GO ON THE SURFACE WITH IT. IF WE HAVE A STRIKE OF BRILLIANCE, WE'LL COME BACK IN FRONT OF THE BOARD AND ASK FOR A CHANGE. BUT YOU'RE NOT GONNA YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH PERCOLATION WITH THE AMOUNT OF PLANTS. I REALLY DON'T THINK SO. IT'S A GREAT BIG SPONGE. IT IS. IT'S GOING TO SUCK EVERYTHING UP. IT'S GOING TO BE GOOD. BUT I THINK THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE REDUCING THE HARDSCAPE AREA AROUND THE WELL PATIO TO THE TUNE OF ABOUT 30% OF WHAT WE HAVE OUT THERE. AND EXPANDING THAT AS GREENSCAPE, WHETHER THAT'S LAWN AND OR PLANTINGS, I THINK IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. YEAH. CAN YOU PUT UP ALL 1.1, PLEASE? THE HARDSCAPE PLAN? YES, MA'AM.

OKAY. IT'S GOING TO BE AT SIX. MISS DUNCAN, CAN YOU QUICKLY JUST SAY THIS WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SCREEN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT REMOVING THE PATHWAY THAT CONNECTS THE WELL AREA TO THE EVENT SPACE OR. WELL, THERE'S THE CONCRETE AROUND THE WELL IS ALREADY THERE. SO YOU KNOW, THE WELL IS THERE AND IT HAS BRICK AROUND IT. AND WHICH IS LIKE A LITTLE WALKWAY. IF YOU WERE WANTED TO GO AND LOOK AT THE WELL, YOU COULD WALK ON THE BRICK. I WAS JUST THINKING, PULL OUT THE CONCRETE PART BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED IT. I MEAN, PEOPLE USED TO WALK JUST ON THE LAWN, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T HAVE SIDEWALKS WALKING THROUGH THE WHOLE BACK. IT'S LIKE YOU JUST WALK ON THE LAWN AROUND THAT. AND THEN THERE'S A WALKWAY. IF YOU WANT TO GO TO THE PAVED AREA, YOU CONTINUE DOWN THAT SPINE OF THE WALKWAY TO THE MAJOR PAVED AREA. THAT WOULD JUST BE A WAY TO SOFTEN IT. BUT IF THERE'S A REASON TO HARDSCAPE AROUND THAT WHOLE THING BEYOND THE BRICK, I MEAN, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU WOULD NEED TO GO IN THAT LITTLE PIECE THAT GOES, I MEAN, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE LET IT BE LAWN GRASS. I THINK THAT WE CAN STUDY THAT IF YOU'RE FINE WITH US WORKING WITH STAFF ON THAT. AND WHAT WE WOULD BE LOOKING AT IS ALSO JUST FUNCTIONALLY, WE'LL PROBABLY DO A FURNITURE LAYOUT PLAN TO WORK WITH STAFF ON SO THAT WE DECIDE IF WE'RE GOING TO ELIMINATE ALL THAT COQUINA CONCRETE OR IF WE'RE JUST GOING TO COME IN THERE. SORRY, THAT WAS TOO MUCH. BUT, YOU KNOW, DO WE COME IN AND START TO REMOVE THOSE SECTIONS? YEAH, ALL THIS BECOMES GREEN KIND OF THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WAS KIND OF THINKING. YEAH. OKAY. THANK YOU. PERFECT. ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE GONNA MAKE A MOTION. OH, NO, YOU MAKE THE MOTION. YOU MAKE A MOTION. ME AGAIN? YEAH. YOU.

YOU'RE GOOD. OKAY, SO I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE APPLICATION. HP20260077. THE LAMBERT HOUSE AT 31 SAINT FRANCIS STREET. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THE SECTION AROUND THE WELL MODIFIED, WHICH WILL BE APPROVED OR LOOKED AT BY STAFF. FURTHER QUESTIONS COULD BE REMANDED BACK TO US.

OTHER THAN THAT, I THINK WE ARE IN APPROVAL OF EVERYTHING. CAN I GET A SECOND? I'LL SECOND IT.

ANY DISCUSSION? WE'RE GOOD. GOOD. ALL RIGHT. MADAM SECRETARY, CAN YOU CALL ROLL GARY MACDONALD. YES. LINDA POTTER. YES. MICHAEL. BLAKE. YES. CATHERINE. DUNCAN. YES.

[03:40:04]

[9.b) HP2026-0075 ]

[03:45:04]

THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, MISS COURTNEY. ALL RIGHT. WE CAN HAVE THE APPLICANTS BACK UP TO PRESENT LIGHTING STUDIES.

ALL RIGHT. TWO MOMENTS. SORRY ABOUT THAT. PERFECT.

ALL RIGHTY. WE ARE. GOOD TO GO. GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL AGAIN. SO WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF FUN WORKING ON THIS PROJECT. ONE OF OUR TEAM MEMBERS WHO WAS NOT ABLE TO JOIN US HERE TODAY IS CHRIS FITZ. HE IS THE GENTLEMAN WITH ANGELS IN THE ARCHITECTURE WHO DOES A LOT OF THE NIGHTS OF LIGHTS LIGHTING THROUGHOUT DOWNTOWN, AND CERTAINLY ONE OF THE MOST TALENTED PEOPLE THAT I KNOW IN TERMS OF ARCHITECTURAL LIGHTING, NOT GOING IN AND LIGHTING, THINGS THAT WE WOULDN'T WANT TO SEE, BUT LIGHTING ELEMENTS IN A VERY, I THINK, APPROPRIATE AND NOT OVERDONE WAY. SO WE'RE EXCITED TO BE HERE TO GO THROUGH THIS.

AS MISS COURTNEY MENTIONED, THIS IS A PROJECT THAT COMMISSION HAS TALKED ABOUT.

ACTUALLY, A NUMBER OF COMMISSIONS HAVE TALKED ABOUT MAYOR NANCY SYKES. KLEIN WAS ONE THAT HAS BEEN LEADING IT THIS ROUND. COMMISSIONER CRITCHLOW IN THE PAST HAS BEEN HIGHLY INVOLVED WITH IT. AND SO WE'RE EXCITED TO BE AT THIS POINT TO HOPEFULLY GET YOUR YOUR BUY IN. AND WE EVEN HAVE IF THE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT, A LITTLE MOCK UP OF THE LIGHT SO WE CAN TURN ON. SO YOU CAN GET A SENSE OF THE COLOR TEMPERATURE, ETC. SO WE EVEN HAVE A LITTLE SHOW IF YOU FEEL SO INCLINED. BUT I'D FIRST LIKE TO ASK GAVIN TO COME UP HERE AND JUST KIND OF WALK YOU THROUGH THE PLANS, AND THEN I'LL GO THROUGH THE LIGHT FIXTURES THEMSELVES. THANKS, JEREMY. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. VICE CHAIR AND BOARD MEMBERS.

THIS FIRST PAGE, IF YOU WILL, AT THE AERIAL SHOWS THE THE MOMENTS WHERE THE LIGHTS WOULD BE LOCATED. NOW THERE ARE SECTIONS ON THE WEST SIDE AND THE EAST SIDE WHERE YOU CAN'T SEE THE ARCHES. I MEAN, YOU STILL HAVE THE PIERS UNDER THERE, BUT THAT'S WHY THE THE MAGENTA STARTS A LITTLE BIT FURTHER IN FROM LAND. SO THERE'S 16 LOCATIONS, BUT A TOTAL OF 32 FIXTURES. AND AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE MARKET THAT ARE THE MOCK UP THAT JEREMY IS GOING TO WALK YOU THROUGH IN A BIT, AND YOU CAN COME OVER AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE WAY THAT THE FIXTURES ARE MOUNTED. THE NEXT COUPLE SHEETS ARE JUST AS BUILTS OF THE BRIDGE. LET ME GET TO. THIS JUST SHOWS OVERLAYING ON THE. AS BUILTS THE SPECIFIC LOCATIONS, THE 16

[03:50:07]

AND WE'RE TRYING TO MINIMIZE. AND JEREMY CAN GO INTO MORE DETAILS ON THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF IT, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF MECHANICAL ATTACHMENTS ALL THE WAY THROUGHOUT THIS. AND THE ACTUAL FIXTURES LIKE THIS MOCK UP WOULD BE MOUNTED TO A PRECAST 24 BY 24. LIKE WALL CAP, IF YOU WILL, AND EPOXY TO ON TOP OF THE PIER CAP. SO THERE WOULDN'T BE THE MECHANICAL ATTACHMENTS TO THE HISTORIC PIER. THERE WOULD BE A JUNCTION BOX, WHICH YOU CAN SEE ON THE MOCK UP. AND THEN CONNECTED TO THESE THESE FIXTURES. SO I'M GOING TO PASS IT BACK OVER TO JEREMY TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE ACTUAL LIGHT FIXTURES THEMSELVES. GAVIN'S RIGHT. THEN WORKING WITH DOT, WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE SENSITIVE TO ANY ATTACHMENT POINTS ON THE BRIDGE. AND SO THE CONCEPT IS THIS 24 BY 24 INCH PRECAST CONCRETE WOULD HAVE FOUR AREAS OF EPOXY UNDERNEATH. WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IDEA IS THAT CHRIS FITS OVER ANGELS IN THE ARCHITECTURE. HE'S ACTUALLY DONE SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR WHERE HE DIDN'T WANT TO MECHANICALLY CONNECT THROUGH ROOF SURFACE. HE DID THIS, THE OLD MELLOW MUSHROOM. HE HAD SOME UPLIGHTS THAT ARE ON TOP OF THAT FLAT ROOF. AND SO, AS HE HAS TOLD ME A FEW TIMES, HAS GONE THROUGH NOW A NUMBER OF HURRICANES, IT HAS NOT MOVED. BUT WHAT WE'VE DESIGNED IS THAT THERE'S ACTUAL WEIGHT TO THE PRECAST. THE EPOXY IS GOING TO HELP TO HOLD IT IN PLACE, BUT IT'S ALSO LOW PROFILE. SO AS YOU HAVE WAVE ACTION THAT'S COMING THROUGH THERE, AND THESE SIT AT THE TOP OF THE ACTUAL PILLAR AREA, I'M ACTUALLY GOING TO GO DOWN THERE. YOU CAN SEE WHERE THEY'RE OUT OF THE WATER THERE AT THE TOP OF THE PIERS CENTERED IN THE SPACE. THE FIRST WAY THAT WE LOOKED AT IT WAS PUTTING ONE ON THE LEFT, ONE ON THE RIGHT. IT OVER LIT THE BRIDGE, IN OUR OPINION. SO WE BROUGHT IT DOWN TO THE ONE. SO YOU HAVE BIDIRECTIONAL, VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU SEE WITH THE MOCK UP. SO YOU HAVE ONE LIGHT THAT IS GOING TO THE EAST, ONE THAT'S GOING TO THE WEST. I THINK I SAID THOSE BACKWARDS, BUT YOU ALL GET THE IDEA. AND THEN THE LIGHT ITSELF IS AN ALL BRASS FIXTURE. IT'S AN LED ADJUSTABLE BEAM THAT'S INSIDE. IT IS 2700 KELVIN. IT IS NOT COLOR CHANGE. SO WE CAN'T MAKE IT RED, WHITE AND BLUE. WE CAN'T MAKE IT ANY COLOR EXCEPT FOR SOFT WHITE, WHICH IS VERY MUCH IN KEEPING WITH THE A G P GUIDELINES. AND AGAIN, IT'S A LOW VOLTAGE FIXTURE. SO IF YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, FOR THE SAFETY OF BOTH SERVICING THE LIGHTS, BUT ALSO THE FACT THAT ELECTRICITY AND WATER DOESN'T DON'T MIX WELL. AND SO WE'RE ONLY RUNNING 12 VOLT ELECTRICITY DOWN TO THESE FIXTURES. SO IF THE BOARD IS INTERESTED AND YOU WOULDN'T MIND US CUTTING OFF THE LIGHTS, WE CAN TURN ON THESE LIGHTS.

YOU'LL SEE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO FEEL FAIRLY BRIGHT. BUT REMEMBER THAT THESE ARE TRYING TO REACH BOTH DIRECTIONS UNDERNEATH THE BRIDGE OF LIONS. EACH FIXTURE, THE BEAM CAN BE ADJUSTED OR TUNED AS CHRIS LIKES TO USE THE TERM, BUT IT CAN GIVE YOU A SENSE OF THE COLOR TEMPERATURE. SO IF THE BOARD WOULD LIKE THAT, WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT. SURE. OKAY, SO AND RUSS AND ROBERT'S WITH OUR TEAM HAS BEEN WORKING REALLY WELL WITH US ON THIS. SO DO Y'ALL MIND IF WE TURN? I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO TURN OFF THE MAIN LIGHTS. THANK YOU,

[03:55:04]

AND THEN RUSSELL, DO YOU MIND ACTUALLY ADJUSTING? LET'S NOT SHINE THEM IN ANYONE'S LIGHT.

BUT CAN YOU ACTUALLY TAKE THE FIXTURE AND SHOW HOW IT CAN, WHERE THEY TIGHTEN DOWN PRETTY WELL. VERY STURDY. THANK YOU. SO WE HAVE BOTH UP AND DOWN MOVEMENT, BUT THEN THE LENS ITSELF, WE CAN ADJUST THE BEAM. SO WE'LL BE ABLE TO GO IN BOTH DIRECTIONS. BUT YOU CAN SEE WITH JUST HOW IT'S HIGHLIGHTING IT IS THAT WARM WHITE LIGHT. COULD YOU JUST COUPLE MONTHS.

SURE. THAT'D BE GREAT. NICE. I. SO IT'S SUBTLE, WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD THING, BUT IT'S GOT ENOUGH PUNCH TO IT THAT IT'S GOING TO HIGHLIGHT THE BEAUTIFUL ARCHES. COOL. THANK YOU. RALSTON. WHO'S NORMALLY ON. THANK YOU, MR. BEACH. APPRECIATE IT. SO WE'RE HERE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. WELL AT THIS TIME I'LL OPEN IT UP FOR THE PUBLIC. IS THERE ANYONE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF MR. CRITCHLOW? COME ON UP. YES. I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, 15, 20 YEARS AGO, WE TRIED TO DO THIS. WE WE EVEN. AND MARCUS BENSON IN THE BACK AND TELL YOU, WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT WORKING ON THIS PROJECT, CONSULTING WITH CONSULTANTS AND GETTING DIFFERENT FIXTURES. AND WE ACTUALLY HAD A CONSULTANT INSTALL LIGHTING UNDER THE BRIDGE ON TWO OF THE SPANS, I THINK ON THE, ON THE WEST END OF THE BRIDGE. AND WE ACTUALLY WENT AND GOT A BOAT. WE GOT ONE OF THE, I THINK ONE OF THE SIGHTSEEING BOATS AND GOT THE COMMISSION OUT ON THE BOAT AND LOOKED AT THE LIGHTS AT NIGHT OF WHAT IT WOULD LOOK LIKE. AND IT LOOKED A LOT LIKE WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED, BUT I, I WOULD LIKE TO REITERATE THE, THE ECONIC STATURE OF THE BRIDGE. AND I THINK THIS LIGHTING WOULD ONLY ENHANCE THAT ICONIC FEEL. IT. IT IS SUCH A CENTERPIECE IN THE BAY. AND I CAN JUST IMAGINE WALKING DOWN THE NEW SEAWALL, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, WALKING DOWN THE WALK AND LOOKING AT THAT AT NIGHT, I THINK IT WOULD JUST BE FANTASTIC. I REALLY HOPE WE CAN. WE CAN GET IT DONE THIS TIME, YOU KNOW, AND GET THIS THING APPROVED. BECAUSE I THINK ESPECIALLY FOR THE 100TH ANNIVERSARY, YOU KNOW, COMING UP IN 2027. SO I REALLY, I REALLY HOPE AND ENCOURAGE THE BOARD TO LOOK FAVORABLY ON THIS PROPOSAL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE? I'M SEEING? NO ONE. SO I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND OPEN IT UP FOR DISCUSSION. MR. BLAKE.

SO THIS IS THE CONDUIT THAT YOU RUN. IS IT JUST FROM ONE SIDE OR THE OF THE BRIDGE OR THE OTHER? SO ONE SIDE WOULD REMAIN UNCHANGED. CORRECT. SO IT WOULD COME FROM THE SOUTH SIDE IS SIDE FOR ALL THE CONNECTIONS. AND THEN DOWN. OKAY. CORRECT. I THINK I FOLLOW AND GENERALLY I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT CAN SUPPORT. ARE YOU GOING TO DO ACTUAL MOCK UP OR LIKE LIKE A PHYSICAL MOCK UP, LIKE IN ONE OF THE BAYS JUST TO SEE HOW MUCH IT IT DOES ILLUMINATE IF ONE LIGHTS ENOUGH OR TWO, I THINK BEFORE WE DEPLOY IT ON EVERYTHING, WE WOULD BE DOING AN ADDITIONAL MOCK UP WHERE WE WOULD. SIMILAR TO WHAT MR. CRYSTAL WAS MENTIONED, WE WOULD HIT IT FROM TWO OF THE PIERS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THE RIGHT FIXTURES, BUT WE'VE DONE

[04:00:05]

SO LET ME ANSWER THAT IN TWO DIFFERENT WAYS. YOU CAN GET A FIXTURE, WHICH IS NOT THIS FIXTURE THAT HAS COLOR CHANGE LED TO IT. WE VERY SPECIFICALLY CHOSE THE SOFT WHITE FIXTURE BECAUSE DOT ACTUALLY CONTROLS WHAT CAN AND CAN'T BE LIT ON THEIR BRIDGES. AND OUR THE CITY'S GUIDELINES ARE VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT SOFT WHITE. SO FOR A MULTITUDE OF REASONS, THESE ARE ONLY SOFT WHITE. THESE PARTICULAR FIXTURES. I AGREE. I AGREE WITH THE SOFT WHITE. I'M JUST THINKING LIKE JULY 4TH. WOULDN'T IT BE COOL? NO. AND THERE'S THERE'S REASONS FOR THAT. THE CITY WAS INVOLVED IN ENGLAND. I'M SAYING THIS. YOU'RE SHOUTING ME DOWN. I UNDERSTAND THAT AND IT'S NOT A PATRIOTISM THING. IT'S A WE GOT SUED BADLY AND LOST AND HAVE AN INJUNCTION BY A FEDERAL JUDGE. SO WE WILL NOT BE DOING ANY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, COLORED LIGHTING TO TIE IN WITH PEOPLE'S SOCIAL POLITICAL EVENTS. I LIKE THE SUBDUED WHITE, DON'T GET ME WRONG. YEAH, IT'S A CLASSIC. JUST ASKING INAPPROPRIATE QUESTION. AS USUAL. WE MIGHT HAVE TO PAINT THE UNDERSIDE OF THE BRIDGE. WE MAKE ENOUGH NOISE ON JULY 4TH.

WE DON'T NEED ANY HELP THERE. IS THERE ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ARE WE IN FAVOR OF THIS LIGHTING PACKAGE? ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT, MR. BLAKE, CAN YOU. I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE, AS PRESENTED HB 2026-0075 FOR THE ADDITIONAL LIGHTING BELOW THE BRIDGE OF LIONS AS PRESENTED. ALL RIGHT. CAN I GET A SECOND? I WILL SECOND THAT. ALL RIGHT, MADAM SECRETARY.

MICHAEL BLAKE. YES. MR. MCDONALD. YES. LINDA POTTER. YES. RED BEACH, YES. THANK YOU.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANKS, GUYS. THAT'S GONNA LOOK FANTASTIC. YEAH. LOOK GREAT. IN YOUR PACKET. YOU SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED THE CITY OF SAINT AUGUSTINE REPAIR, MAINTENANCE AND NEW CONSTRUCTION FOR THIS PAST MONTH. AND IT LOOKS LIKE MISS SEYMOUR HAS SOME MORE PAPERWORK FOR US. YES. OH, NO.

[11.a) Current threat to Section 106 UPDATE]

[04:05:03]

BUT THEY'RE ALSO ASKING PEOPLE TO TRY TO CONTACT YOUR STATE SENATORS OR YOUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THE SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN ON THIS RECENT PROPOSAL. SO THANK YOU. I THINK THAT'S ALL THAT I HAVE REGARDING THAT. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? BOARD HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT? IS THE WEBINAR TAPED? CAN YOU WATCH IT LATER? YES, GENERALLY YOU CAN.

OKAY. THE NATIONAL TRUST, THEY'RE PRETTY GOOD ABOUT DOING THAT. AND THEY HAVE IT USUALLY LINKED TO THEIR WEBSITE. SO I'LL TRY TO FORWARD YOU THAT. I'VE DONE THE HARD PART. YES, YOU WERE GREAT AT RESPONDING WITH YOUR WITH YOUR LETTERS. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE? THAT'S IT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE FOR DISCUSSION TODAY, MISS COURTNEY? NO. EVERYTHING ALL RIGHT? WELL THANK YOU, TEAM, FOR ANOTHER AMAZING AFTERNOON. THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT. NEXT NEXT MONTH, THANKSGIVING

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.