[00:00:01] >> GOOD EVENING. THIS REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION IS CALLED TO ORDER. [1. CALL TO ORDER] MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. >> NANCY SIKES KLEIN? >> HERE. >> BARBARA BLONDER. >> HERE. >> CYNTHIA GERRES? >> HERE. >> JIM SPRINGFIELD? >> HERE. >> JOHN D PRATER? >> HERE. >> WE WILL OBSERVE A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOLLOWED BY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE LED BY VICE MAYOR BARBARA BLONDER. THANK YOU. PLEASE STAND IF YOU'RE ABLE. >> >> THANK YOU. FIRST ITEM WE HAVE IS MODIFICATION AND APPROVAL OF THE REGULAR AGENDA. [2. ADMINISTRATIVE ITEMS] I HAVE ONE ITEM. I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER. I WOULD LIKE TO ADD PUBLIC COMMENTS TO ITEM 10A, WHICH WE WOULD NOT NORMALLY HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR A STAFF PRESENTATION, BUT I THINK IN THIS CASE, WE PROBABLY WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE COMMUNITY. >> I AGREE. >> ANYONE ELSE? YEAH. >>I'LL MAKE THAT MOTION. I GUESS YOU GAVE US A SECOND. ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY OTHER MODIFICATIONS? STAFF HAS NO MODIFICATIONS. COMMISSIONERS? WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. >> AYE. >> AYE. >> THANK YOU. THAT WILL BE PUBLIC COMMENT UNDER 10A. THERE WE GO. PERFECT. THE NEXT ITEM WE HAVE ARE PROCLAMATIONS. [3. SPECIAL PRESENTATIONS, RECOGNITIONS AND PROCLAMATIONS] I HAVE TWO PROCLAMATIONS TONIGHT. ONE WILL BE READ SINCE THERE IS NO ONE HERE TO ACCEPT I WILL READ IT, AND THEN ON I'LL READ THE FIRST ONE AND THEN WE'LL GO ON TO THE SECOND ONE AFTER THAT. LET'S SEE. WHEREAS, INDIGENOUS PEOPLE'S DAY HONORS THE HISTORIES, CULTURES, AND PERSPECTIVES OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES AND THEIR ANCESTORS WHO LIVED ON THE LAND NOW KNOWN AS NORTH AMERICA. THEY EXISTED IN THESE AREAS FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS BEFORE THE FIRST EUROPEAN EXPLORERS ARRIVED, AND WHEREAS THE ARRIVAL OF EUROPEAN EXPLORERS AND SETTLERS BROUGHT DISEASE, GENOCIDE, AND SLAVERY TO THE AMERICAS, AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE INCREASINGLY LOST ACCESS TO THEIR ANCESTRAL LANDS AND NATURAL RESOURCES, WHICH SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACTED THEIR ABILITY TO PRACTICE ASPECTS OF THEIR CULTURES AND TRADITIONS. WHEREAS, DURING THE PLAINS WAR OF THE MID 1800S, THOUSANDS OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES WERE FORCED FROM THEIR HOMELANDS. DOZENS OF THEIR LEADERS AND WARRIORS WERE IMPRISONED OVER 01,000 MILES AWAY FROM HOME IN FORT MARION, WHAT IS NOW KNOWN AS THE CASTILLO DE SAN MARCOS IN ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA. WHEREAS INDIGENOUS PEOPLE'S DAY IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REVEAL TRUTHS ABOUT THE PRE EXISTING INDIGENOUS CULTURES AND PEOPLES THAT HAVE SURVIVED A MOST OFTEN VIOLENT COLONIZATION PROCESS AND WHO CONTINUE TO EXIST AND THRIVE IN PRESENT DAY AMERICAS. WHEREAS ON THE SECOND MONDAY OF OCTOBER, WE HONOR THE HISTORIC AND CONTEMPORARY SIGNIFICANCE OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES, THEIR CULTURE, THEIR GOVERNMENTS, THEIR ANCESTRAL LANDS THAT ALSO BECAME KNOWN AS THE AMERICAS. WE RECOGNIZE THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS TO COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE NATION AND ALL OVER THE WORLD. NOW, THEREFORE, THE CITY COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA, HEREBY PROCLAIMS OCTOBER 13, AS INDIGENOUS PEOPLE'S DAY IN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE URGES ALL OF OUR CITIZENS TO UPLIFT AND CELEBRATE OUR COUNTRY'S INDIGENOUS ROOTS, HISTORY, RESILIENCE, AND CONTRIBUTIONS. [00:05:01] I WOULD LIKE TO JUST SAY THAT THE ARCHAEOLOGY PROGRAM HAD A DIG ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO ON HYPOLDA STREET, RIGHT IN FRONT OF WHAT IS NOW RIVER AND FORT. THEY DISCOVERED THAT INDIGENOUS PEOPLE HAD BEEN THERE ACCORDING TO CARBON DATING SINCE ABOUT 4,070 YEARS AGO IN THAT LOCATION, WHICH IS SIGNIFICANT. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A GOOD SPOT. [LAUGHTER] PEOPLE HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A VERY LONG TIME. IT'S NICE THAT WE RECOGNIZE OUR INDIGENOUS PEOPLES THAT WE'RE HERE. SOME OF US STILL HAVE INDIGENOUS BLOOD PASSED THROUGH. I KNOW MY FAMILY DOES. I THINK DARLENE MENTIONED THAT SHE HAS ANCESTORS THAT WERE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INDULGENCE IN APPROVING THIS PROCLAMATION. THE NEXT ONE, I WILL READ, AND THEN WE CAN COME UP AND STAND, AND MISS MELISSA WHISTLE WILL COME AND ACCEPT THE PROCLAMATION. WHEREAS CITY GOVERNMENT IS THE GOVERNMENT CLOSEST TO MOST CITIZENS AND THE ONE WITH THE MOST DIRECT DAILY IMPACT UPON ITS RESIDENTS, PROVIDING SERVICES AND PROGRAMS THAT ENHANCE THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR RESIDENTS, MAKING THEIR CITY THEIR HOME. WHEREAS CITY GOVERNMENT IS ADMINISTERED FOR AND BY ITS CITIZENS AND IS DEPENDENT UPON PUBLIC COMMITMENT TO AND UNDERSTANDING OF ITS MANY RESPONSIBILITIES. WHEREAS CITY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS AND EMPLOYEES SHARE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO PASS ALONG THE UNDERSTANDING OF PUBLIC SERVICES AND THEIR BENEFITS. WHEREAS FLORIDA CITY WEEK OFFERS AN IMPORTANT OPPORTUNITY FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS AND CITY STAFF TO SPREAD THE WORD TO ALL CITIZENS OF FLORIDA THAT THEY CAN SHAPE AND INFLUENCE THIS BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT. WHEREAS THE FLORIDA LEAGUE OF CITIES AND ITS MEMBER CITIES HAVE JOINED TOGETHER TO TEACH CITIZENS ABOUT MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT THROUGH A VARIETY OF ACTIVITIES. NOW, THEREFORE, THE CITY COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE DOES HEREBY DECLARE OCTOBER 20 THROUGH 26, 2025 AS FLORIDA CITY WEEK. DURING THIS WEEK, THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE URGES ALL CITIZENS TO RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANT ROLE CITY GOVERNMENT PLAYS IN THEIR LIVES, THE SERVICES PROVIDED FROM PUBLIC SAFETY TO TRASH COLLECTION TO PROMOTING OUR COMMUNITY'S CULTURE AND ITS CONTRIBUTION TO A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE IN FLORIDA. IF YOU'LL JOIN ME UP FRONT, WE'LL PRESENT THAT TO MISS WHISTLE. THERE YOU ARE. >> I KNOW THE DRILL. I'LL HAND THE MICROPHONE TO YOU BECAUSE I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE SOME THINGS PLANNED FOR US. >> T HANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE DO HAVE SOME FUN THINGS PLANNED. WE ARE GOING TO KICK OFF THE WEEK WITH COFFEE WITH A COMMISSIONER. EACH OF OUR COMMISSIONERS HAS AGREED TO MEET WITH RESIDENTS. DESTINATIONS TO BE REVEALED ONCE WE GET EVERYTHING FIRMED UP. WE'RE ALSO GOING TO BE OFFERING A RESIDENT TOUR OF THE VISITOR INFORMATION CENTER AND WALKING TOURS OF FISH ISLAND. WE ALSO ARE GOING TO BE JOINING A TOUR WITH SOME OF THE FLAGLER COLLEGE STUDENTS OUT TO THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT, I BELIEVE. OF COURSE, WE'LL HAVE A GREAT CAMPAIGN ON SOCIAL MEDIA, HIGHLIGHTING OUR DEPARTMENTS AND OUR DIVISIONS AND OUR GREAT WORKERS. STAY TUNED FOR A GREAT WEEK OF CITY GOVERNMENT WEEK. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE'LL GET A PICTURE NOW. >> THAT'S YOURS. >> GOOD. >> PERFECT. >> THANK YOU. >> THE NEXT ITEM [4. PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS OR FOR AGENDA ITEMS NOT REQUIRING A SEPARATE PUBLIC HEARING] IS PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS. IF YOU'LL JUST GIVE ME ONE SECOND TO LOOK THESE CARDS OVER, I WANT TO BE SURE THAT I GET THEM RIGHT PEOPLE IN THE RIGHT THING. ITEM 10A. THANK YOU. MISS HEATHER WILSON, ARE YOU HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT THE HORSES? [00:10:07] NO, I'M NOT CALLING YOU NOW. I'M JUST ASKING. YOU COULD RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU'RE HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT THE HORSES. THANK YOU. MISS CARLA WILSON, ARE YOU HERE TO SPEAK ABOUT HORSES? PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU ARE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT LOOKS LIKE I HAVE TWO SPEAKER CARDS FOR GENERAL GENERAL PUBLIC HEARING, GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS. AT THIS TIME, WE WILL HAVE PUBLIC COMMENTS ON MATTERS THAT ARE NOT SCHEDULED FOR A PUBLIC HEARING. ANY PERSON WISHING TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION SHOULD FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD, AND I WILL CALL ON YOU TO THE PODIUM WHEN IT IS YOUR TURN TO SPEAK. YOU WILL HAVE THREE MINUTES TO SPEAK AND SHALL COMPLY WITH THE CITY'S RULES OF DECORUM. THOSE ARE, COMMENTS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED TO THE COMMISSION AS A WHOLE AND NOT INDIVIDUAL COMMISSIONERS, AND COMMISSIONERS SHOULD NOT BE EXPECTED TO ANSWER QUESTIONS FROM SPEAKERS. NO PERSON MAY ADDRESS THE COMMISSION WITH PERSONAL, IMPROPER OR SLANDEROUS REMARK OR WITH BOISTEROUS BEHAVIOR. MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE WILL REFRAIN FROM ANY CLAPPING OR DISRUPTIVE DEMONSTRATIONS OF APPROVAL OR DISAPPROVAL OF ANY COMMENTS. FINALLY, I WOULD ASK THAT ANY SPEAKER WHO USES THE OVERHEAD PROJECTOR TO PLEASE SUBMIT THOSE ITEMS TO THE CITY CLERK SO THAT THEY MAY BE ENTERED INTO THE PUBLIC RECORD. THANK YOU. THE FIRST SPEAKER CARD I HAVE HERE IS MR. BRUNO DE FABIO. GOOD EVENING. YES. YOUR SPOT IS RIGHT THERE. YOU GOT IT RIGHT. >> GOOD EVENING, EVERYONE. MY NAME IS BRUNO DE FABIO AND I'M THE OWNER OF BRONX HOUSE PIZZA ON THE CORNER OF US ONE, AND CINCINNATI AVENUE. I NOT ONLY OPERATE THE RESTAURANT, BUT I ALSO OWN THE BUILDING. WHEN PIZZA HUT CLOSE, I LEVERAGE EVERYTHING I HAVE INTO REBUILDING THAT PROPERTY. WHAT HAD BEEN A VACANT EYESORE NOW, I HOPE, IS A REAL ASSET TO ST. AUGUSTINE. FROM THE START, I'VE WORKED TO BE THE BUSINESS NEIGHBOR THAT THIS CITY DESERVES. I LIVE HERE IN THE SHIPYARD. I'VE PARTNERED WITH PORT AND THE STORM AND ST. FRANCIS HOMELESS SHELTERS, PERSONALLY, COOKING MEALS, HOSTING FUNDRAISERS AND ORGANIZING FOOD DRIVES WITH LOCAL SCHOOLS. IT'S AN ISSUE THAT'S CLOSE TO MY HEART, AS MY MOTHER AND I WERE OFTEN JUST A TICK AWAY FROM BEING HOMELESS MYSELF AS A YOUTH. NOW ON THE ISSUE OF PARKING ON CINCINNATI AVENUE. CINCINNATI IS A TWO WAY STREET WITH PARKING ON BOTH SIDES, FITTING CLOSE TO 60 CARS. IT HAS 19 RESIDENTS ON THE SOUTH SIDE AND 17 RESIDENTIAL UNITS ON THE NORTH SIDE. IT'S A MIX OF SINGLE AND MULTI FAMILY PROPERTIES. CURRENTLY, I BELIEVE 13 OF THOSE HOMES ARE BEING OFFERED AS AIRBNBS. THAT'S ABOUT 40 PERCENT OF THE STREET. I UNDERSTAND THAT THE FRUSTRATIONS THAT THE RESIDENTS FEEL, ESPECIALLY DURING NIGHTS AND LIGHTS WHEN TRAFFIC IS AT ITS PEAK. I RESPECT THOSE CONCERNS. THAT'S WHY FROM DAY 1, WE HAVE NEVER ALLOWED OUR EMPLOYEES, OR MANAGERS OR OUR OWNERS TO PARK IN OUR OWN PARKING LOT. I'D LEASE AN OFFSITE LOT ACROSS THE STREET FOR STAFF SO THAT EVERY SPOT AT BRONX HOUSE IS STRICTLY RESERVED FOR CUSTOMERS ONLY, IT'S BEEN AN ACTUAL NET GAIN FOR THE PARKING SITUATION ON CINCINNATI BECAUSE OUR PEOPLE ARE NOT COMPETING FOR THOSE SPOTS. STILL, I MUST STRONGLY CAUTION AGAINST DESIGNATING CINCINNATI AVENUE AS A RESIDENTIAL ONLY PARKING. DOING SO WOULD TAKE A VALUABLE CITY ASSET, ROUGHLY 60 PARKING SPACES AND RESTRICT IT FOR THE BENEFIT OF A VERY SMALL GROUP. WHEN AVNITA MENENDEZ RECEIVED IT DISTINCTION AS A RESIDENTIAL ONLY PARKING AREA, IT WAS BECAUSE NOT ONE SINGLE HOME HAD OFF STREET PARKING, AND CINCINNATI IS DIFFERENT. MOST HOMES HAVE DRIVEWAYS, GARAGES, OR ALLEY ACCESS. TO ELIMINATE PUBLIC PARKING WOULD NOT ONLY AFFECT VISITORS AND RESIDENTS, BUT IT WOULD ALSO PUT A REAL STRAIN ON BUSINESSES ALONG SAN MARCO AND US1. JUST THIS WEEK, I SPOKE WITH RESTAURANT AND SHOP OWNERS WHO WEREN'T EVEN AWARE THAT THERE WAS A PROPOSAL ON THE TABLE. FOR THEM LOSING CINCINNATI WOULD BE DEVASTATING. IF ACTION MUST BE TAKEN, I URGE THAT IT BE INCREMENTAL AND TEMPORARY. PERHAPS START WITH SATURDAY AND SUNDAY ONLY DURING THE HEAVIEST PART OF NIGHTS OF LIGHTS, AND ONLY ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET WITH CLEAR AND FRIENDLY SIGNAGE. LASTLY I WANT TO THANK MAYOR NANCY SIKES KLEIN, ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER RUBEN FRANKLIN, AND COMMUNITY SERVICES DIRECTOR JAMIE PERKINS FOR THEIR RESPONSIVENESS AND THEIR SUPPORT. THE LEVEL OF SERVICE GAVE ME CONFIDENCE THAT BUSINESS OWNERS VOICES MATTER AND THAT THE CITY VALUES PARTNERSHIPS AND SOLVING PROBLEMS AND CHALLENGES. THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME A SEAT AT THE TABLE FOR ALLOWING ME TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION AND FOR MAKING SURE THAT MY VOICE IS HEARD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [00:15:04] >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE APPRECIATE THAT. THE NEXT SPEAKER IS RICHARD HARDY. MR. HARDY, YOU'RE HERE TO SPEAK AGAIN. >> THANK YOU. I'M RICHARD HARDY, 117 INLET DRIVE. WE WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE COMMISSION TO RECONSIDER OUR REQUEST FOR A RIGHT AWAY AGREEMENT THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY SUBMITTED FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS. WHEN THIS PROJECT WAS COMPLETED MORE THAN A YEAR AGO, WE HAD SECURED THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE PERMITS FOR A FENCE, LANDSCAPE LIGHTING, AND A FLOODPLAIN PERMIT WHICH SHOWS NEW AND EXISTING LANDSCAPING AND THE FENCE. I HAVE A COPY OF EACH OF THOSE PERMITS GRANTED BY THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE. WE BELIEVE THAT THE FENCING AND THE LANDSCAPING WERE WELL CLEAR OF THE RIGHT AWAY SINCE THEY ARE APPROXIMATELY 13.5 FEET FROM THE CURB. THERE IS AN ABERRATION IN THE LOCATION OF THE RIGHT AWAY ON OUR PROPERTY. FOR THE MOST PART, THE RIGHT AWAY SITS ANYWHERE 4-8 FEET ALONG CAMERAS AND INLET DRIVE, WHICH IS ALSO TYPICAL OF WHAT IS SEEN THROUGHOUT THE NEIGHBORHOOD. HOWEVER, THE RIGHT AWAY VEERS SHARPLY EAST OF OUR PROPERTY AND THROUGH OUR PROPERTY. THE RIGHT AWAY LINE INCREASES FROM APPROXIMATELY TEN FEET TO APPROXIMATELY 37 FEET WITHIN OUR PROPERTY. WE, OF COURSE, WOULD GRANT THE CITY FULL ACCESS TO A RIGHT AWAY AS NEEDED AT OUR EXPENSE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I HAVE NO MORE SPEAKER CARDS. I DO, I'M SORRY. I HAVE MISS [INAUDIBLE] FOR GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS. DOES ANYONE HERE WISH TO SPEAK DURING GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS? IF THEY DO, PLEASE PUT A CARD OUT, PUT A CARD IN. THAT IS EXCLUSIVE OF THE ITEM 10A. MISS DUNN, PLEASE. >> THANK YOU. BJ KALA WEST CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE. AS A REMINDER TO ST. JOHN'S COUNTY GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES AND OTHERS, THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE HELD A NUMBER OF PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT MEETINGS TO DISCUSS NIGHTS OF LIGHTS. THIS IS WHAT THIS MEMO IS ABOUT. I WANT THIS TO BE PUBLICIZED, EVEN THOUGH IT'S BEEN IN THE PAST. LET ME SAY THANK YOU TO THE CITY COMMISSION FOR YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT NIGHTS OF LIGHTS AT THE SEPTEMBER 25, 2025 BUDGET MEETING. I WASN'T ATTENDING THAT BECAUSE I THOUGHT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE BUDGET. THE CITY NEEDS TO ENFORCE THE CLEAN OF TIRES AT THE NORTHWEST INTERSECTION OF US ONE AND KING STREET. THIS BLIGHT HAS BEEN REPORTED TO CODE ENFORCEMENT. THIS BROWN FRIEL FIELD PROPERTY IS CONTAMINATED, AND FAILURE TO CLEAN UP THE TIRES ADDS TO THE WC CRA SLUM BLIGHT DESIGNATION. PLEASE LOOK UP ORDINANCE 2007-11, ADULT AND SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESSES. THERE IS CONCERN IN THE COMMUNITY ABOUT PROPERTY LOCATED AT 129 LINCOLN STREET, WHICH IS IN THE LINCOLNVILLE CRA, AND PROPERTY AT 26 MCMILLAN, WHICH IS NORTH OF THE CITY OFF OF US ONE. YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS, TOO, AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME AND EVERYTHING THAT'S GOING ON, WHETHER IT'S IN THE GOVERNMENT OR JUST IN PEOPLE'S LIVES. THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL. IT'S A FOUR LETTER WORD. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. MADAM CLERK, DO WE HAVE ANY MORE SPEAKER CARDS? IF NOT, I'M GOING TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD. MADAM CLERK? NO. THANK YOU, THEN. I THOUGHT I SAW CARDS IN YOUR HAND. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH. MOVING RIGHT ALONG. [5. CONSENT AGENDA] THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS THE CONSENT AGENDA, MR. CITY MANAGER. >> MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, AND COMMISSIONERS, TONIGHT'S CONSENT AGENDA INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING ORDINANCES ARE TENTATIVELY SCHEDULED FOR SECOND READING ON OCTOBER 27. ORDINANCE 2025-30, WHICH PROVIDES MINOR EDITORIAL CHANGES TO THE CITY'S PARKING REGULATIONS, ORDINANCE 2025-31, WHICH CREATES SECTION 8-117 REPAIR TIMELINES FOR MILESTONE INSPECTIONS. [00:20:03] ORDINANCE 2025-23, WHICH AMENDS THE FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION OF APPROXIMATELY 11 ACRES AT FLORIDA AVENUE AND THREE THEODORE STREET EAST OF NESMITH, ORDINANCE 2025-24, WHICH AMENDS THE ZONING OF THAT SAME PROPERTY. ORDINANCE 2025-25, WHICH AMENDS THE FUTURE LAND USE DESIGNATION OF APPROXIMATELY 6.57 ACRES AT FLORIDA AVENUE AND JEOR STREET. ORDINANCE 2025-26, WHICH AMENDS THE ZONING OF THE SAME PROPERTY. THESE ARE CITY OWNED CONSERVATION PROPERTIES. ORDINANCE 2025-27, WHICH AMENDS THE FUTURE LANDIS DESIGNATION OF 1014 IN 18 SMITH STREET IN EVERGREEN AVENUE EAST OF N NESBIT AVENUE. FINALLY, ORDINANCE 2025-28, WHICH AMENDS THE ZONING OF THE SAME PROPERTY. AGAIN, THIS IS A CITY CONSERVATION LAND. WE HAVE A REMINDER OF UPCOMING MEETINGS FOR THE OCTOBER 27, 03:00 PM COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY MEETING, OCTOBER 27, 5:00 PM REGULAR CITY COMMISSION MEETING. WE HAVE A REGULAR CITY COMMISSION MEETING ON NOVEMBER 10 AT 5:00 PM, AND A REGULAR CITY COMMISSION MEETING ON DECEMBER 8 AT 5:00 PM. WE HAVE A RELEASE OF LIEN FOR UNIT CONNECTION MORTGAGES FOR 856 HAMILTON AVENUE, CORNELL AND GLADYS MCMILLEN. WE HAVE A NOTIFICATION OF A PROCLAMATION 2025-32, WHICH PROCLAIMS 2025 AS A 150TH ANNIVERSARY OF GREATER ST. MARY'S BAPTIST CHURCH, SPONSORED BY COMMISSIONER CYNTHIA GERRES. FINALLY, WE HAVE A INVOICE FOR THE EMINENT DOMAIN LAWSUIT FOR LAKE MARIA SANCHEZ FOR PROFESSIONAL SERVICES, AND THAT CONCLUDES THE CONSENT AGENDA. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION. >> MOVE TO APPROVE THE CONSENT AGENDA. >> SECOND. >> SECOND. >> ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SIGNIFY BY SAYING AYE. >> AYE. >> AYE. >> THANK YOU. LET'S SEE. WE'RE BACK INTO OUR REGULAR MEETING. LET'S SEE. [9.A.1. Ordinance 2025-30: Provides minor editorial changes to the city's parking regulations (I. Lopez, City Attorney)] NEXT ITEM OF SUBSTANCE 9A, AND THESE ARE ORDINANCES. WE HAVE TWO. FIRST READINGS. THE FIRST ONE IS ORDINANCE 2025-30, AND THAT IS MADAM CITY ATTORNEY. >> MADAM MAYOR, MADAM VICE MAYOR, AND COMMISSIONERS, ORDINANCE NUMBER 2025-30 IS ESSENTIALLY A CLEANUP ORDINANCE TO ADD BETTER, MORE CONTEMPORARY DEFINITIONS TO OUR PARKING CODE. THINGS LIKE DEFINING A PARKING METER TO INCLUDE COMPUTER APPS, WEB BASED SERVICES, SIMILARLY WAYS TO PAY FOR PARKING ARE NO LONGER NECESSARILY OLD STYLE COINS, BUT IT COULD BE AN APP. IT COULD BE A CREDIT CARD AND SO ON. REALLY, IT CLEANS UP THAT LANGUAGE, BRINGS IT BACK INTO CONTEMPORARY USAGE OF WHAT THOSE TERMS WOULD MEAN. I ALSO WENT THROUGH AND CLEANED UP SOME OF THE LANGUAGE. THIS IS AN OLD 1960S ORDINANCE. IT WAS REFERRING TO STATUTORY SECTIONS THAT NOW HAVE BEEN RENUMBERED AND REPHRASED. I DID ALL OF THAT CLEANUP SO THAT FROM THIS POINT FORWARD, AT LEAST, THE ORDINANCE WOULD TRACK STATE STATUTE. REALLY, THERE ISN'T ANY TRUE SUBSTANTIVE CHANGE. IT'S ALL LANGUAGE CLEANUP, STATUTORY CLEANUP, AND I AM AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS, AND THIS IS FIRST READING. >> COMMISSIONERS, QUESTIONS, COMMENTS. FIRST READING. THERE IS NO PUBLIC HEARING HERE. I MOVE THAT WE PASS ORDINANCE 2025-30 ON TO SECOND READING AND PUBLIC HEARING READ BY TITLE ONLY IN. >> SECOND. >> ORDINANCE NUMBER 2025-30, AN ORDINANCE OF THE COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA, AMENDING CHAPTER 24, ARTICLE 2 OF THE CODE OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, PROVIDING FOR DEFINITIONS, PROVIDING FOR GENDER NEUTRAL LANGUAGE, PROVIDING FOR PARKING PROHIBITIONS CONSISTENT WITH STATE STATUTE, PROVIDING FOR SEVERABILITY, PROVIDING FOR INCLUSION IN THE CODE OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE. >> WONDERFUL. ANY FINAL COMMENTS? MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. >> NANCY SIKES KLEIN? >> YES. >> JIM SPRINGFIELD? >> YES. >> JOHN D PRATER? >> YES. >> CYNTHIA GERRES? >> YES. >> BARBARA BLONDER? >> YES. >> WONDERFUL. MOTION CARRIES. THE NEXT ITEM IS ORDINANCE 2025-31, [9.A.2. Ordinance 2025-31: Creating Section 8-117, Repair timeline for milestone inspections (R. Schauland, Building Official, Planning and Building)] CREATING SECTION 8-117 REPAIR TIMELINE FOR MILESTONE INSPECTIONS. [00:25:03] MR. SHAWD. GOOD EVENING. >> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR. VICE MAYOR COMMISSIONERS. I'M BUDDY SHAWD AND THE CITY BUILDING OFFICIAL. THIS IS FOR THE FIRST READING OF ORDINANCE 2025-31, WHICH IS CREATING SECTION 8-117, REPAIR TIMELINE FIVE MILESTONE INSPECTIONS. THIS IS COMING FROM 553.899 OF THE FLORIDA STATUTES, WHICH WAS A RESULT FROM THE SURFSIDE CONDO COLLAPSE, A FEW YEARS AGO. THE STATUTE REQUIRES MANDATORY INSPECTIONS ON ALL CONDOS AND COOPERATIVES THAT ARE THREE STORIES OR HIGHER WHEN THEY TURN 30-YEARS-OLD IN EVERY 10 YEARS THEREAFTER. TWO PHASE INSPECTION PROCESS, IF PHASE 1, INSPECTION FINDS ANY SUBSTANTIAL STRUCTURAL DETERIORATION, THEN A PHASE 2 INSPECTION IS REQUIRED. THE PHASE 2 IS A MORE IN DEPTH INSPECTION OF THE DETERIORATION AND WILL DETERMINE THE SCOPE OF THE REPAIR. THE STATUTE REQUIRES THE JURISDICTION TO ESTABLISH TIMELINE FOR THE CONDO OR COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATIONS TO SCHEDULE OR COMMENCE THE REPAIRS. WITH THIS ORDINANCE DOES, THAT IT GIVES 180 DAYS AFTER THE CITY RECEIVES THE PHASE TWO REPORT FOR THAT TIMELINE. IT ALSO ALLOWS FOR AN ADDITIONAL 185 DAY EXTENSION, BUT IT MUST COMMENCE WITHIN 365 DAYS AFTER THE CITY RECEIVES THE PHASE 2 REPORT. THIS ORDINANCE ALSO STATES THAT IF THE ASSOCIATION FAILS TO SUBMIT THE PROOF THAT THE REPAIRS HAVE BEEN SCHEDULED OR COMMENCED THAT THE CITY WILL HAVE TO REVIEW AND DETERMINE IF THE BUILDING IS UNSAFE FOR HUMAN OCCUPANCY. I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. >> COMMISSIONER'S QUESTIONS. >> THIS ORDINANCE PUTS THE ORDINANCE ON US TO DETERMINE WHETHER IT'S LIVABLE OR NOT? >> CORRECT. >> THEREFORE, OPENS UP THE LIABILITY FOR US IF WE SAY, YES, IT IS AND IT COLLAPSES. >> I THINK THAT I WOULD GET AN ENGINEER TO GO LOOK AT IT [LAUGHTER] >> STEVE FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, THIS IS VERBATIM, THE STATE STATUTE. IT REQUIRES THAT LANGUAGE. >> I UNDERSTAND. IT'S JUST ANOTHER THING THE STATE'S THROWN ON OUR BOARD TO GIVE US RESPONSIBILITY AND NOT THEM, SO JUST MAKING IT PUBLIC. >> THAT'S RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S AN UNFUNDED MANDATE OR IF IT'S A PREEMPTION. >> I THINK IT'S THE PASSING OF LIABILITY. THE STATE IS SAYING IF THE CITY MAKES A MISTAKE, IT'S THE CITY'S FAULT, NOT THE STATES, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT APPROVING THE INSPECTIONS WE ARE. >> IT DOESN'T COVER ANY COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT. >> CORRECT. >> I WOULD PUT THAT IN THE UNFUNDED MANDATE. COMMISSIONERS, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? >> NO PARTICULARLY HAPPY WITH IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT IT. >> I THINK IT'S A GOOD POINT. COMMISSIONER, GARRIS. >> I AGREE THERE'S NOTHING THAT WE CAN REALLY DO ABOUT IT, BUT MAKE SURE WE HAVE A LOT OF EYES ON IT JUST SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY LIABILITY. >> YES, MA'AM. >> I WOULD JUST THANK MY FELLOW COMMISSIONER FOR MAKING THAT POINT. >> THAT'S RIGHT. >> CRYSTAL CLEAR. >> YES, CRYSTAL CLEAR. THANK YOU. STAFF HAS A SOLUTION, WHICH IS ENGINEERING REPORTS. THAT'S OUR BEST PROTECTION AGAINST LIABILITIES. WELL, I MOVE THAT WE PASS ORDINANCE 2025-31. >> SECOND. >> ORDINANCE NUMBER 2025-31, AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA, CREATING SECTION 8-117 OF THE CODE OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE TO CONFORM WITH STATE STATUTE REGARDING A TIME FRAME FOR REPAIRS OF SUBSTANTIAL STRUCTURAL DETERIORATION TO A CONDOMINIUM OR COOPERATIVE ASSOCIATION, PROVIDING FOR INCLUSION IN THE CODE OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE. > THANK YOU, MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. >> NANCY SIKES KLEIN. >> YES. >> JIM SPRINGFIELD? >> YES. >> JOHN D PRATER? >> YES. >> CYNTHIA GERRES? >> YES. >> BARBARA BLONDER? >> YES. >> THAT WILL GO TO PUBLIC HEARING NEXT. WE'LL SEE YOU ON THE NEXT MEETING ZOOM. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. NEXT ITEM ARE STAFF REPORTS. [10. STAFF REPORTS AND PRESENTATIONS] THIS IS ITEM 10A. FIRST, WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE'LL HEAR FROM MR. SACRID. WE'LL HEAR HIS, AND THEN WE'LL OPEN IT UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN WE CAN DIVE IN. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? GREAT. THANK YOU. MR. SACRID. >> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, COMMISSIONERS. IF YOU GIVE ME ONE MOMENT TO GO AHEAD AND PULL MY PRESENTATION UP. [00:30:13] PLEASE FORGIVE MY PRESENTATION. IT'S VERY WORDY. IT'S GOT A LOT PACKED IN THERE, BUT WE THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO GIVE THE COMMISSIONERS A COMPREHENSIVE VIEW OF OUR HORSE CARRIAGE A LEASE AND AGREEMENTS THAT WE HAVE WITH OUR VENDORS. THIS IS THE ANIMAL DRAWN VEHICLE FRANCHISE. FIRST, THESE ARE THE LIST OF THE ORDINANCES THAT ARE GERMANE TO THE SUBJECT HERE. THEY WERE ALL PASSED. MOST OF THEM WERE PASSED IN 2011. THE ORDINANCE 2011-01 CONTAINS MOST OF THE INFORMATION THAT I'LL BE COVERING TODAY. THEN ALL THE WAY DOWN WITH, I'LL SHOW YOU THE AMENDED RESOLUTION 2012-21, WHICH IS I'VE HAD A REQUEST TO HAVE THAT PULLED UP, AS THAT'S THE ACTUAL ROUTE WE HAVE FOR THE HALLER STRONG CARRIAGES. FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO START WITH SOME OF THE BASICS FOR YOU TO GET YOU A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WE HAVE. WE HAVE TWO SETS OF AGREEMENTS. ONE IS THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, AND THEN THE OTHER IS A LEASE AGREEMENT. THEN THE LEASE AGREEMENTS ARE BROKEN DOWN EVEN FURTHER IN THE FACT THAT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S A ONE ACRE PROPERTY THAT WE HAVE HERE AT THE CITY THAT WE'VE LEASED OUT TO ONE OF THE HORSE CARRIAGE OR THE TRANSFER STATION, WHICH IS ACTUALLY OPERATED BY THE CITY. BOTH OF THOSE ARE LOCATED ON RIBERIA STREET. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE TRANSFER STATION FIRST. THERE'S A TOTAL OF 15 MEDALLIONS OR FRANCHISE AGREEMENTS AVAILABLE SET FORTH BY THE CITY COMMISSIONERS. RIGHT NOW, THERE'S ONE CURRENTLY OPEN, AND WE HAVE TWO APPLICATIONS THAT THE CITY MANAGER HAS ASKED ME TO HOLD ONTO UNTIL WE HAVE THIS HAVE THIS PRESENTATION. THERE'S THREE TENANTS, ONE OF THEM HAS ONE MEDALLION, ONE TENANT HAS TWO MEDALLIONS, AND THEN THE THIRD TENANT HAS A SINGLE MEDALLION WITH THAT ONE REMAINING THAT IS UNEXECUTED RIGHT NOW. NOW, THE TENANTS CONTRIBUTE TO A MONTHLY, THEY HAVE A LEASE PAYMENT WITH THAT, AND THEY HAVE A SINKING FUND. THE PROCEEDS OF THAT SINKING FUND GO INTO THE MAINTENANCE OF THAT FACILITY, AND YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THE IMAGES HERE. THE MAINTENANCE IS DONE BY THE CITY, AND RECENTLY, WE'VE INSTALLED SECURITY CAMERAS. WE'VE DONE THE PRESSURE WASHING. WE HAD THE ENTIRE STRUCTURE PAINTED THIS YEAR. WE'VE HAD NEW LIGHTING INSTALLED. LATER, WE HAVE DOORS ON ORDER FOR THE STALL DOORS, AND WE'RE HOPING TO GET THOSE IN IN THE NEXT WEEK OR SO. NOW, THE TENANTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THE UTILITIES, AND THEN ALSO THE UTILITIES ARE EVENLY SPLIT AMONG HOW MANY MEDALLIONS THEY HAVE. THEN, OF COURSE, THEY TAKE CARE OF THE WEED EATING, AND THEN THEY TAKE CARE OF THE MOWING AND ALSO THE MANURE REMOVAL. THAT'S THE TRANSFER STATION. WE HAVE A ONE ACRE PROPERTY ON 650 RIBERIA STREET, AND WE HAVE ONE TENANT WHO HAS 10 MEDALLIONS. THE ST. AUGUSTINE CITY OWNS THE PROPERTY, BUT THE TENANT AND ALL THE STRUCTURES THERE ARE OWNED BY THE TENANT, AND THEY MAINTAIN THAT AND THE GROUNDS. >> A REQUEST WAS MADE TO INCLUDE THE FRANCHISE FEES AND THE REVENUE. WE HAVE A STRAIGHT LEASE PAYMENT FOR THE PROPERTY AND THE TRANSFER STATION. BUT THIS IS UNIQUE IN THE PERMITS. THE SECTION IS LISTED THERE OF WHAT PART OF THE ORDINANCE IT'S IN, AND THEY HAVE TO PAY EITHER 2.5% OF THEIR GROSS REVENUE OR 1,000 TIMES THE PERMITS ISSUED. AS YOU SEE HERE, ALL OF THIS SLIDE DOESN'T NEED TO BE MODIFIED JUST A LITTLE BIT. I WANT TO SAY THAT OLD CITY CARRIAGES THE DAY AFTER I TURNED THIS IN, THEY ACTUALLY PAID MORE. THEY PAID ONE AND $500 FOR LAST YEAR. THEY PAID MORE THAN THE MINIMUM. THEN, OF COURSE, THE CITY SHALL HAVE THE ACCESS TO THE ACCOUNTING AND PERFORM AUDITS AS THEY DEEM FIT. HEAT TEMPERATURE AND THRESHOLDS. I WAS ASKED BY THE CITY MANAGER TO INCLUDE THIS SLIDE. WHAT I'VE ALSO DONE IS A LITTLE BIT OF RESEARCH IN SOME OF OUR SISTER CITIES THAT HAVE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES ALSO. OUR CITY, WHEN TEMPERATURE HITS 95 DEGREES, OR THE HEAT INDEX REACHES 105 DEGREES, WE PULL THE HORSES FROM THE STREETS. HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGES. THEN THE CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT MONITORS THAT. NOW, IN ADDITION, WE'VE ADDED WITH THE CITY OF SAVANNAH AND THE CITY OF CHARLESTON, AND THEY HAVE VERY SIMILAR, AND YOU'LL SEE IN THE UPCOMING SLIDES, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, SOME OF THE LANGUAGE IN OUR ORDINANCE IS IDENTICAL. WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT WITH THE CITY OF SAVANNAH'S ORDINANCES, AND CHARLESTON IS THE FACT THAT THEY'VE BOTH BEEN REVISED AND ONE WAS IN 2021 AND ONE WAS 2017. OF COURSE, OURS WAS DONE IN 2011. NOW, THESE ARE THE MAXIMUM OR HEAT THRESHOLDS. [00:35:05] I HAVE NOTICED IN SAVANNAH AND CHARLESTON, THEY HAVE OTHER ENGAGEMENT WITH THE ANIMALS DIRECTLY, SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT HITS EITHER 85 DEGREES, AND THEN AGAIN, AT 90 DEGREES. THERE ARE SPECIFIC ACTIONS THAT CITY EMPLOYEES TAKE WITH THE OPERATORS IN THOSE CITIES. OUR FLEET OPERATIONS DEPARTMENT TAKES CARE OF AN ANNUAL INSPECTION OF ALL THE CARRIAGES, MAKE SURE ALL OF THESE SAFETY, ALL THESE ITEMS ARE TAKEN CARE OF AND ON AND AVAILABLE AND ARE IN GOOD OPERATING SHAPE. THIS ALSO APPLIES TO ACTUALLY THE VEHICLES FOR HIRE AND THE TROLLEYS ALSO. FLEET OPERATIONS TAKES CARE OF ALL THOSE ANNUALLY. BEFORE WE GO INTO THE DEFICIENCIES IN CORRECTIVE ACTION, I WANTED TO REALLY THANK FOR THE PUBLIC COMMENTS AND THE RECORDS REQUEST, BECAUSE THIS FIRST ONE HERE IS REALLY UNIQUE THAT IT WAS A SMALL DETAIL THAT HAD BEEN MISSED FOR MANY YEARS. AS WE CAN SEE IN THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, THERE'S A LINE THAT'S UNDERLINED RIGHT THERE THAT SAYS, THIS AGREEMENT IS FOR ONE PERMIT AND ONE CARRIAGE. WHAT'S UNIQUE IS IT'S AMBIGUOUS WHEN WE LOOK AT THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT FOR THE ONE THAT HAS TWO MEDALLIONS AND ALSO HAS TEN MEDALLIONS, IT DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY SAY THAT THEY HAVE TEN MEDALLIONS OR TEN FRANCHISES TO HAVE TEN HORSES OUT AT ONE TIME. WE'RE ALREADY IN WORK ON MAKING AN AMENDMENT AND ANNOTATING THE ACTUAL NUMBER OF PERMITS ON THE LEASE AGREEMENT. HERE'S ANOTHER ONE. I WANT TO THANK THE FOLKS WITH PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST. THE CITY HAD TRADITIONALLY UTILIZED THE VETERINARIAN INSPECTIONS IN MAY AND NOVEMBER EVERY YEAR AS THEIR HORSE INVENTORY. BUT RIGHT ON THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, IT SAYS THAT THE CITY WILL HAVE A LIST, AND THEN THEY WILL TURN THEM IN. WHAT'S UNIQUE WITH THIS IS THAT WE'VE ALREADY ESTABLISH WE'VE CORRECTED THIS. WE'VE GOT IT OUT TO ALL OF OUR OPERATORS, AND THEY'VE GIVEN IT BACK TO US. BUT THE ONE PIECE THAT I WANT TO MAKE NOTE OF IS THAT THESE ASSIST OUR NIGHTLIFE COORDINATOR, MR. WHITE, IN ACTUALLY LOOKING AND SEEING WHICH HORSES ARE OUT THERE AND AND WHERE MARRYING UP THE VET CERTIFICATES WITH THE HORSES THAT THE OPERATORS SAY THEY HAVE. HERE'S A UNIQUE ONE. IT BEFUDDLES ME AND SEVERAL OTHER CITY STAFF HERE IS THE FACT THAT IN OUR ORDINANCE FROM 2011, IT SAYS THAT A RESOLUTION FROM THE CITY COMMISSION WILL ESTABLISH THE RIDE RATES. WE WERE UNABLE TO LOCATE THOSE, WHICH WAS AN ODDITY. BUT WE THINK THAT WE CAN LOOK AT THIS AS THE VEHICLE FIRE HIRE COMES UP. I BELIEVE THAT'S IN THE NEW SOME OF THE REVISED LANGUAGE THAT'S BEING WORKED ON NOW. I THINK WE CAN INCORPORATE THE CORRECTION TO THIS IN ANY CHANGES THAT THE COMMISSIONERS MAY HAVE. THIS GOES BACK TO THAT PREVIOUS ORDINANCE I TALKED ABOUT 2012, ALSO, IS THAT THE ROUTES ARE SPECIFICALLY DRAWN AND WHERE TO GO. WHAT WE'RE NOT DOING SUCH A GOOD JOB WITH IS THE CHARTERS. THERE ARE CHARTERS FOR WEDDINGS, WINE TOURS, STUFF LIKE THAT. ALL OF THOSE SHOULD BE APPROVED AHEAD OF TIME BY THE CITY MANAGER OR HIS DESIGNEE. THEN THOSE ON SECTION C THERE, THOSE CERTIFICATES SHOULD BE PLAINLY VISIBLE DURING THAT CHARTER. THEN, OF COURSE, THE COMPREHENSIVE DRIVER BACKGROUND CHECKS AND ADMINISTRATOR ROAD KNOWLEDGE TESTING. BOTH OF THOSE ARE STILL IN OUR ORDINANCE. CARE OF ANIMALS. WHEN WE LOOK AT THE CARE OF ANIMALS RIGHT HERE, THE REST, AT LEAST 15 MINUTES BETWEEN CONSECUTIVE TOURS, I'VE NOTICED THAT TO BE VERY CONGRUENT WITH SAVANNAH AND CHARLESTON. I'VE ALSO THIS IS WHERE WE GET SOME OF THE IDENTICAL LANGUAGE THAT WE HAVE IN BETWEEN HOURS AND THEIR ORDINANCES ALSO. WITHIN A 24-HOUR PERIOD, THE HORSES DO NOT WORK MORE THAN EIGHT CONSECUTIVE HOURS OR DO NOT WORK MORE A TOTAL OF 10 HOURS WITHOUT BEING UNHOOKED FROM THEIR CARRIAGE. THEN THE MONITORING OF COMPLIANCE. NOW, THIS ONE, 27146, EVEN WHEN IT WAS INSTITUTED, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT SAY WHEN THE HORSES LEAVE THE TRANSFER STATION, THEY COME IN AND OUT DAILY. HOW DO WE MONITOR THAT THEY'RE GETTING PASTURE TIME? THEN THE SAME THING WHEN IT COMES TO THE ONE ACRE FACILITY? SHELTER HEARING OF ANIMALS. THEY'RE SUBJECT TO INSPECTION BY EITHER CODE ENFORCEMENT OR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. WELL, THE LAST TWO YEARS, THE FACILITIES DEPARTMENT HAS DONE THOSE INSPECTIONS. [00:40:01] WE'VE SCHEDULED THOSE ANNUALLY FOR NOVEMBER. BUT LAST YEAR, WE WENT AHEAD AND TOOK THE EXTRA STEP, AND WE REACHED OUT TO ST. JOHN'S COUNTY, AND THEY HAD AGRICULTURAL DEPUTIES. THEY HAVE THIS JOINT, THEY HAVE THIS SHARED MISSION WITH FLAGLER COUNTY, AND WE HAD THREE DEPUTIES COME UP AND THEN WALK THROUGH OUR FACILITIES. OUR CITY MANAGER, TALKED TO THE FOLKS AT UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA, AND THEY PUT US IN TOUCH WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF ANIMAL SCIENCES. WE HAD THEM COME LAST MONDAY. WHAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT LAST MONDAY WAS, AS YOU'LL REMEMBER, WE HAD A TON OF RAIN JUST LIKE WE HAD THIS WEEKEND, AND THE GROUNDS WERE WET. I THINK THAT WAS A PERFECT TIME TO HAVE THOSE FOLKS COME OVER AND TAKE A LOOK. WHAT THEY NOTICED WAS, AND SAME THING FROM THE AGRICULTURAL DEPUTIES LAST YEAR. THEY NOTED THAT NOW, ALL THESE HORSES, THERE WERE NO HORSES, AT THE TIME OF MORNING, WE DID THIS. THERE WERE NO HORSES AT THE TRANSFER STATION. THEY HADN'T COME IN FOR THE DAY YET, BUT THERE WERE THE HORSES OVER AT THE ONE ACRE FACILITY. THE FOLKS FROM UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA, THEY NOTICED THAT ALL HORSES WERE HEALTHY AND IN GOOD WORKING CONDITION. THEY WERE WELL EXERCISED, WELL FED. THEY HAD NO MARKS, NO OPEN SORES, OR WOUNDS. THEY SAW THEIR HOOFS AND LEGS, AND THEY LOOKED IN GOOD CONDITION BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT ALL THOSE PASTURES WERE JUST SO WET. IF YOU LOOK AT THEM RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE STILL WET OUT THERE TODAY. NOW WE'RE GOING TO SHIFT GEARS A LITTLE BIT INTO FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS. AS THE COMMISSIONERS ALREADY KNOW THAT THE SEAWALL PROJECT IS GOING TO GET KICKED OFF RIGHT AFTER THE NIGHTS OF LIGHTS. FOR NEXT YEAR, DURING THAT PERIOD, WE'LL HAVE TO RELOCATE THE HORSES OR THE CARRIAGES AND WHERE THEY PICK UP AND DROP OFF BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO BE SUITABLE FOR THEM TO BE RIGHT THERE ON THE BAY FRONT. THE FIRST THING IS WHAT'S ALREADY APPROVED IN RESOLUTION 2012-21 IS THE CLOCK TOWER CIRCLE RIGHT THERE. THE CITY MANAGER DETERMINES THE CHANGE FOR THE PUBLIC SAFETY REASONS. BUT THEN IMMEDIATELY AT THE NEXT COMMISSION MEETING, THE CITY MANAGER CAN MOVE IT, BUT THEN IT HAS TO COME IN FRONT OF YOU FOR YOUR APPROVAL FOR FINAL APPROVAL. NOW, THIS IS WHERE THE SLIDE HAD TO CHANGE, MS. MARON. THE ORIGINAL PICTURE WASN'T GOING TO WORK BECAUSE WHAT WAS NOTICED WAS THAT TROLLEYS ACTUALLY DRIVE THROUGH THAT FIRST CIRCLE. WE DECIDED TO MOVE THE PROPOSED AREA FOR THE COMMISSIONER'S CONSIDERATION RIGHT UP TO THE CORNER OF KING STREET AND CHARLOTTE STREETS RIGHT THERE. FOR YOUR THOUGHTS. THAT CONCLUDES MY PRESENTATION WITH THE EXCEPTION OF I CAN PULL UP THAT MAP SHOULD COMMISSIONERS WANT TO SEE THAT. >> I ASSUME THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE PULLING UP THAT MAP NOW. >> YES, MA'AM. >> GREAT. THANK YOU. >> I'VE KEPT IT ON ITS SIDE. I THINK THE REPRESENTATION WILL STILL WORK OUT, BUT IT FITS MORE SO THE COMMISSIONERS CAN SEE IT A LITTLE BETTER. >> CAN YOU DO YOU HAVE A POINTER? >> DO YOU HAVE A POINTER. >> IT'S HARD TO SEE. BUT IF MAYBE YOU COULD SHOW US THE DIRECTION, THEY LEAVE FROM RIGHT NOW. >> WHERE THEY LEAVE? THEY LEAVE HERE? >> LEAVE FROM THE BAY FRONT. >> YES, MA'AM. >> GO NORTH. >> THEY GO NORTH, SOUTH CASTIO DRIVE IN FRONT OF THE FORT IN FRONT OF THE COSTIO. DOWN, THEY MAKE THAT TURN BY ON ORANGE STREET. THEY COME DOWN, MY GOSH. THANK YOU. CORDOVA STREET. DOWN CORREA SAVILLE STREET. MAKES A SLIGHT JOG. COMES OUT BETWEEN THE COLLEGE RIGHT THERE. FORGIVE ME. NO. COMES UP KING STREET, AND THEY HAVE AN OPTION HERE. SO THEY CAN CONTINUE DOWN KING STREET TO AVAL STREET, OR THEY CAN GO DOWN CORDOVA STREET AGAIN, CUT DOWN BRIDGE TO MARINE STREET, ALL THE WAY DOWN, AND THEN BACK UP AMINA MENENDEZ. THAT'S THE ROUTE THAT WAS APPROVED IN 2012. >> THAT CONCLUDES YOUR PRESENTATION? >> YES, MA'AM. >> BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC HEARING, DOES ANYONE WISH TO MAKE A COMMENT? QUESTION. ASK A QUESTION. [00:45:04] WHAT HOLD OUR COMMENTS. >> CAN YOU POINT TO WHERE THE NEW STAGING AREA WOULD BE ON THE MAP AGAIN FOR ME? >> SAY IT AGAIN, SIR? >> THE PROPOSED NEW STAGING AREA. >> THE CLOCK TOWER CIRCLE IS THIS AREA RIGHT HERE IN PURPLE? THAT ONE I GOT. THEN THE ONE DOWN BY THE B ONE IS ALL THE WAY DOWN ON KING STREET RIGHT OFF THE CATHEDRAL. IT WOULD BE JUST AFTER WHERE THEY MAKE THAT TURN DOWN AVAL STREET. AS A MATTER OF FACT, IMMEDIATELY AFTER THAT. THERE IT IS A COMMERCIAL LOADING ZONE DURING THE DAY. THAT WAS WHERE STAFF THOUGHT IT'D BE A GREAT POSITION TO PARK TO HAVE THEM TEMPORARILY. >> THANK YOU. >> MORE QUESTIONS? YES. >> WHAT WOULD THE NEW ROUTE BE? DO YOU HAVE THAT? >> NEW M. THE ROUTE WOULD STAY THE SAME. IT WAS THEY WOULD JUST DEPART AT A DIFFERENT LOCATION. >> GREAT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC HEARING? OKAY. GREAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> I DO HAVE ONE. >> WE HAVE A QUESTION. >> THE FEES. YOU HAD HIM QUOTED AS $100 EACH PER MEDALLION, BUT ISN'T IT $1,000 OR 2.5% OF THEIR GROSS, WHICHEVER IS HIGHER? >> THAT IS CORRECT. >> THANK YOU. >> GREAT. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? BEFORE WE MOVE ON. STICK AROUND. >> YES, MA'AM. >> PATRICIA RAMOS, FOLLOWED BY CARLA WILSON. >> HELLO. MY NAME IS PATRICIA. I AM HERE THIS EVENING TO SPEAK UP FOR THE HORSES THAT ARE BEING ABUSED IN ST. AUGUSTINE. UNLIKE WHAT THE OWNER OF COUNTRY CARRIAGES HAS SAID, WE DO NOT FIND SPEAKING UP FOR THE VICTIM'S WASTE OF TIME. YOU WILL SEE WHY. IN THE FOLLOWING FEW MINUTES, YOU WILL NOW UNDERSTAND THE MENTALITY AND EASE AT WHICH THE OWNER OF COUNTRY CARRIAGES MAKES SUCH MISOGYNISTIC ABUSIVE COMMENTS, SUGGESTING THAT I SELL MY BODY. I'LL HAVE TO HAND IN THAT VIDEO. IN THE FOLLOWING FEW MINUTES, YOU WILL NOW UNDERSTAND THE MENTALITY AT EASE AT WHICH THE OWNER OF COUNTRY CARRIAGES MAKES SUCH MISOGYNISTIC ABUSE OF COMMENTS, WHICH YOU'LL SEE. NOW TO FOCUS ON THE VICTIMS AT HAND. HERE IN JUST ONE POLICE REPORT, IT SHOWS WILLIAM CUSHION OF COUNTRY CARRIAGES ADMITTANCE TO VIOLENCE TOWARDS THE ANIMALS THAT THEY SAY THEY SO DEARLY LOVE. THIS IS HOW THEY TREAT THE FAMILY. WHO KNOWS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HORSE THAT BILL HAD MENTIONED KICKED HIM AT THE LAST MEETING, ALTHOUGH HE WAS ACTUALLY THE ONE WHO SAID IT WAS HIS OWN FAULT. THIS IS HOW HE BREAKS THEM. AND THIS POLICE REPORT OF ANIMAL ABUSE RIGHT HERE. A FORMER EMPLOYEE STATED WITNESSING MULTIPLE TIMES WILLIAM CUSHION OF COUNTRY COW JUST HITTING THE HORSES WITH A FEED BUCKET, METAL POOP SHOVEL, HIS FISTS, AND THAT HE HAS DONE THIS MULTIPLE TIMES IN FRONT OF HER, INCLUDING AUGUST OF 2022. SHE WITNESSED BILL BEATING HIS HORSE WITH A METAL SHOVEL. THIS PERSON STATED THAT AT THEIR SECOND LOCATION ON STRATTON BOULEVARD, THE HORSES WERE BEING MISTREATED AND HAD UNCLEAN STABLES. THE REPORT ALSO STATES THAT JENNIFER CUSHION ADMITTED TO SELLING OLD HORSES AS TIGER MEAT TO A PLACE IN LOCALA. THAT DEFINITELY IS NOT THE LOVE THAT ANY GENTIAN BEING WANTS TO EXPERIENCE. IT IS THEM WHO DOES NOT CARE FOR THE HORSE'S OUTCOME. UNLIKE THEIR CRAZY ACCUSATIONS, THAT THE ANIMAL ACTIVISTS PREFER TO WITNESS THE HORSES DEAD. IN THIS REPORT, WILLIAM CUSHIONS OF COUNTRY CARRIAGES IS SHOWN A VIDEO OF ABUSE WHICH OCCURRED IN SLUM PARK ON ROBIA STREET WHERE THE HORSE CARRIAGES COMPANIES KEEP THEIR HORSES. IF THAT WAS HIM STRIKING THE HORSES, HE REPLIED, YES. BILL ALSO STATED THAT HE NO LONGER OWNED THE ABUSED HORSE. BILL WAS ASKED EXACTLY WHY HE PUNCHED THE HORSE ON THE NOSE, AND HE SAID, TO KEEP THE HORSE OFF OF HIM. HE STATED DID I GO OVERBOARD? PROBABLY. THE THING IS HE SAID THE WAY HORSES TEACH ANOTHER HORSE NOT TO ATTACK IT IS TO BITE IT, AND THAT AIN'T GOING TO WORK FOR ME. HERE, THE REPORT SHOWS THAT IT IS FOR TORMENT, DEPRIVE AND MUTILATE. NEXT, YOU'LL SEE THIS IS WHY IT'S NOT A JOKE TO CONTINUE BRINGING UP THE HORSE CARRIAGES AT THESE MEETINGS, ESPECIALLY NOW, AS YOU WILL ALL WITNESS, JUST A SMALL SNIPPET OF THAT WHICH BILL ADMITTED TO IN THE POLICE REPORT ABOVE. HOPEFULLY, THIS PLACE, IF NOT, I WILL HAND IT IN. ABUSE IS ALWAYS UNCOVERED WHEN ANIMALS ARE USED. YOU MUST PLACE THE HORSES, PLEASE ON THE AGENDA. THANK YOU. [00:50:05] >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. NEXT SPEAKER IS CARLA WILSON FOLLOWED BY BRIAN WILSON. THANK YOU. >> GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS. IN SEPTEMBER 2023, AN ACCIDENT BETWEEN A MOTOR VEHICLE AND A HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE OCCURRED RIGHT HERE IN ST. AUGUSTINE. THIS IS THE POLICE REPORT. THIS ACCIDENT RESULTED IN DAMAGE TO THE MOTOR VEHICLE. THE HORSE WAS RUNNING OUT OF CONTROL, AND THERE WAS DAMAGE TO CITY PROPERTY. SINCE THIS ACCIDENT OCCURRED, THERE'S ALSO BEEN NATIONWIDE ATTENTION TO SIMILAR ACCIDENTS IN NORTH CAROLINA AND NEW YORK. IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME UNTIL ANOTHER INCIDENT OCCURS HERE IN ST. AUGUSTINE, IS ADDED TO THE LIST OF CITIES EMBARRASSED BY THESE OUTDATED, ANTIQUATED MEANS OF TOURISM. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE NEXT SPEAKER IS BRIAN WILSON, FOLLOWED BY LENNA RUSSELL. NAME AND ADDRESS, IF YOU'RE SO INCLINED, PLEASE. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BRINGING THIS FORWARD. OVER THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HAVE BEEN PRESENTING TO THIS BOARD NUMEROUS CODE VIOLATIONS. ISSUES WITH THE LICENSING AGREEMENTS AND THE GENERAL CARE OF THE ANIMALS THAT ARE WALKING THE STREETS OF ST. AUGUSTINE, I'D LIKE TO SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS ONE SUCH INCIDENT SO THAT YOU COULD HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC EXAMPLE TO INVESTIGATE AND PRESENT AS REGARD TO HB HENSON LLC. CLAUDEL BROOKS HENSON'S LICENSE WAS TRANSFERRED TO CB HENSON LLC IN 2017. THIS IS A DIRECT VIOLATION OF YOUR ORDINANCE. YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TRANSFER YOUR LICENSES BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS. AND IN FACT, IF 51% OF A COMPANY CHANGES HANDS, THAT LICENSE HAS TO BECOME PART OF THE PUBLIC INTEREST AGAIN AND HAS TO BE REBID AND REASSIGNED. IN ADDITION TO THAT, CB HENSON, LLC WAS DISSOLVED EARLIER THIS YEAR, IN SEPTEMBER OF 2025, AND YET THEY CONTINUED TO OPERATE IN FLORIDA STREETS. IN ST. AUGUSTINE STREETS, THEY CONTINUED TO ADVERTISE FOR RIDES TO BE AVAILABLE. THIS ORGANIZATION HAS BEEN DISSOLVED. AND IN FACT, THERE'S AN INITIAL QUESTION ABOUT THEIR LICENSING ALTOGETHER. THE INSURANCE THAT THEY WERE PROVIDING TO YOU WAS NOT INSURANCE REQUIRED BY YOUR ORDINANCE. IT WAS AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR LICENSE THAT AGAIN CALLS INTO QUESTION THE FACT OF, ARE YOU FOLLOWING YOUR CURRENT ORDINANCES. AND THEN YOU'RE SPENDING ALL THIS TIME EXPANDING YOUR REQUIREMENTS, AND WHEN YOUR PAST REQUIREMENTS HAVE NOT BEEN MAINTAINED. ANY ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD TO YOU WOULD HOPEFULLY HAVE MADE Y'ALL RETHINK THE ORDINANCES ALTOGETHER, GET THESE ANIMALS OFF OF THE STREETS BECAUSE THEY'RE A DANGER TO THE PUBLIC, AND THEY'RE A DANGER TO THE ANIMALS AND THEIR EMBARRASSMENT TO ST. AUGUSTINE. YOU HOPE THAT YOU DON'T CONTINUE TO TRY TO BAND AID THESE APPROACHES TO MAKING THE CITY STREETS SAFE FOR THE ANIMALS, BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY TO MAKE CITY STREETS SAFE FOR THESE ANIMALS. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. LENNA RUSSELL, FOLLOWED BY KAHUN SOUTER. >> HEY, THERE. I HAVE A SHORT VIDEO TO PLAY AS WELL, WHICH I SUBMITTED A FEW DAYS AGO. THIS IS JUST GENERALLY THE CONDITION OF THE HORSES. AND I JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE THIS VIDEO WAS ACTUALLY NEARLY THREE WEEKS AGO. SO, BEFORE THE EXTREME FLOODING, THIS IS JUST THE GENERAL CONDITIONS. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THESE HORSES HAVE NO FRESH GRASS OR PASTURES, AS WE'D ALL LIKE TO IMAGINE THEM ON THEIR TIME. SO, AS YOU CAN SEE AFTER THEIR LABOR, THE CARRIAGE HORSES ARE FORCED TO STAND FOR HOURS IN MUD, FILTH, AND WASTE, WITH NO CLEAN PASTURE, FRESH GRASS, AND NO REAL REST. WHEN THEIR WORK DAY ENDS, THESE HORSES ARE NOT TAKEN TO OPEN FIELDS BUT TO MUDDY PENS, CONFINED SPACES WITHOUT SOFT BEDDING OR GREEN GRASS. THEY'RE DENIED THE MOST BASIC COMFORT A HORSE NEEDS, THE ABILITY TO MOVE FREELY IN THE DAYTIME, AND THE ABILITY TO GRAZE AND REST ON DRY GROUND AT NIGHTTIME. STANDING IN WET MUD IS NOT JUST UNCOMFORTABLE, IS DANGEROUS. HORSES' HOOVES ARE SUPPOSED TO REMAIN DRY AND FIRM, AND WHEN THEY'RE CONSTANTLY EXPOSED TO MOISTURE AND MANURE, BACTERIA CAN TAKE HOLD, WHICH CAN LEAD TO PAINFUL INFECTIONS LIKE THRUSH AND HOOF ROT. THEIR LEGS CAN SWELL FROM PROLONGED STANDING ON UNSTABLE WET GROUND AT NIGHT, AND THEN ON CONCRETE PAVEMENTS IN THE DAYTIME, WITHOUT ANY SOFT GRASS, IT STRAINS THEIR TENDONS AND COULD LEAD TO EARLY CONDITIONS LIKE ARTHRITIS. [00:55:05] AND FOR THESE HORSES, THEY CAN'T WALK AWAY. THEIR SUFFERING IS SILENT, WHICH IS WHY YOU KNOW, I FEEL GRATEFUL TO BE HERE TO RAISE THEIR PLIGHT QUITE HONESTLY AND SPEAK FOR THE VOICELESS. ST. AUGUSTINE CAN HONOR ITS HISTORY WHILST MOVING FORWARD WITH COMPASSION FOR ANIMALS, FOR THE HORSES. OTHER CITIES HAVE REPLACED HORSE CARRIAGES WITH ELECTRIC OR VINTAGE STYLE CARRIAGES, WHICH STILL BRINGS MONEY INTO THE CITY AND PRESERVES THE CHARM WITHOUT SUFFERING ANIMALS. AND AS THE GENTLEMAN WAS TALKING ABOUT, PAINTING AND PRESSURE WASHING THE BUILDING, NEW DOORS, NEW LIGHTING, AND SECURITY CAMERAS DOES NOTHING TO IMPROVE THE WELL BEING OF THE HORSES. IT'S REALLY JUST AESTHETICS, AND CHANGING DOORS ON THE BARN AND SUCH LIKE. AND I DO APPRECIATE THE MENTION OF THE TEMPERATURE THAT THE HORSES ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK IN. BUT THE FACT IS, 104 FAHRENHEIT IS EXTREME TEMPERATURE THAT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO WORK IN. SO JUST A TINY TEMPERATURE LOWER, EXTREME HEAT THAT THESE HORSES ARE WORKING IN THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER AND EXTREME CONDITIONS. AND WHAT THE GENTLEMAN DIDN'T MENTION IS THE HUNDREDS OF CITIES THAT HAVE BANNED HORSE CARRIAGES DUE TO ETHICS AND WELFARE ISSUES AND SAFETY. AND 10 HOURS A DAY, SIX DAYS A WEEK, IS, IN MY VIEW, EXTREME LABOR. AND THESE HORSES TRULY DESERVE BETTER. AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. I REALLY APPRECIATE BEING HERE AGAIN. >> THANK YOU. KATHERINE ZUTTER, FOLLOWED BY ALEXANDER MOLINA. >> I'M KATHERINE ZUTTER. I'M HERE TO TALK MISUSE OF CITY LAND CURRENTLY BEING LEASED TO PRIVATE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE COMPANY COUNTRY CARRIAGES. THE STABLES OPERATED BY COUNTRY CARRIAGE ON CITY OWNED PROPERTY ARE CURRENTLY HOUSING MORE THAN 20 HORSES. RECENTLY, FOUR FOALS OR MANY HORSES HAVE APPEARED ON THIS PROPERTY. IS THIS NOW A BREEDING OR HORSE BROKERING OPERATION? IT CERTAINLY APPEARS THAT THIS HAS GONE FAR BEYOND A SIMPLE HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE OPERATION. ANYWAY, THIS PHOTO TAKEN YESTERDAY SHOWS FOALS ARE MANY FOALS. THE VIDEO IS PLAYING. THAT WAS THE VIDEO. THIS PHOTO, TAKEN YESTERDAY, SHOWS FOALS OR MANY HORSES SURROUNDED BY POOLS OF STAGNANT WATER. THESE CONDITIONS ARE ENTIRELY UNSUITABLE FOR HORSES. EXPOSURE TO A WET, UNSANITARY ENVIRONMENT PUTS THEM AT SIGNIFICANT RISK OF ILLNESS AND INJURY. ALLOWING ANIMALS TO REMAIN IN THESE CONDITIONS RAISES SERIOUS ANIMAL WELFARE CONCERNS. AS YOU CAN SEE, WATER IS EVERYWHERE. THEY HAVE JUST A SLIGHT SLIVER OF LAND. BEYOND THAT, THE PRESENCE OF FOALS OR MANY HORSES ON THIS PROPERTY IS A DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE LEASE AGREEMENT HELD BETWEEN THE CITY AND COUNTRY CARRIAGES. THIS IS A PORTION OF THAT LEASE. THE LEASE CLEARLY STATES THAT THE PROPERTY SHALL BE USED ONLY FOR THE STABLING OF HORSES AND STORAGE OF CARRIAGES NECESSARY FOR THE OPERATION OF HORSE DRAWN SIGHTSEEING BUSINESS. THE PRESENCE ON THIS LAND VIOLATES THE TERMS OF THE LEASE. THE CITY MUST STRICTLY ENFORCE THE TERMS OF THE LEASE TO PREVENT THE EXPANSION OF UNAUTHORIZED USES, WHICH THREATEN BOTH ANIMAL WELFARE AND THE INTEGRITY OF PUBLIC RESOURCES. I URGE THE COUNCIL TO ENSURE THAT ANY FOALS OR MANY HORSES CURRENTLY ON THE PROPERTY ARE REMOVED SAFELY AND RESPONSIBLY AND RELOCATED TO AN APPROPRIATE HUMANE FACILITY. I ALSO ASK THE COUNCIL TO MOVE TOWARD TERMINATING THE LEASE, AT THE VERY LEAST, TO ENSURE IT IS NOT RENEWED WHEN IT EXPIRES IN 2026. THANK YOU. >> NEXT SPEAKER IS ALEXANDER MOLINA, FOLLOWED BY HEATHER WILSON. HELLO. MY NAME IS ALEXANDRA. HUMAN CULTURE IS SHAPED BY TRADITION. WE CRAVE NOSTALGIA AND A QUAINT EXPERIENCE, YET OFTEN WE FAIL TO CONSIDER OUR IMPACT ON THE LIVING ANIMALS WHOSE FREEDOMS WERE TRADED FOR OUR ENTERTAINMENT. HORSES ARE THINKING, FEELING INDIVIDUALS, EXPERIENCING THEIR SURROUNDINGS, REAL TIME, AWARE OF THEMSELVES AND EACH OTHER, AWARE OF DISCOMFORT. [01:00:03] HORSES EXPERIENCE PAIN, BOREDOM, EXHAUSTION, AND SADNESS. WE MUSTN'T BE FOOLED BY THE FALSE NARRATIVE CREATED BY THOSE WHO PROFIT FROM THIS BUSINESS. THE CLAIM THAT THESE HORSES ENJOY THIS WORK DISCOUNTS THE HARSH REALITY THAT THE AGREEMENT TO BE STRAPPED TO A CARRIAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE IS BORN OF AN EXTENSIVE AND EXHAUSTIVE PROCESS OF WHIPPING, BEATING, AND RESTRAINING THESE INDIVIDUALS, EFFECTIVELY TAMPERING THEIR NATURE, BREAKING THEIR SPIRIT, AND FORCING THEM INTO COMPLIANCE. THESE HORSES DO NOT ENJOY PULLING TOURISTS THROUGH ST. AUGUSTINE TRAFFIC, BAKING IN THE FLORIDA HEAT. THEY ARE SIMPLY FORCED TO DO IT. AND WHEN THEIR SHIFT IS OVER, THEY ARE RETURNED TO A DIRT LOT WITH NO FREE GRAZING GRASS, OFTEN SEEN TETHERED BY SHORT ROPE RESTRICTING THEIR RANGE OF MOTION. THIS ISN'T WELL CARED FOR, AS THE CARRIAGE COMPANIES CLAIM. THIS IS ANIMAL ABUSE ON FULL DISPLAY IN THE STREETS OF YOUR CITY. THIS IS DANGEROUS FOR THE HORSES AND FOR PEOPLE. THERE'S BEEN EXTENSIVE DOCUMENTATION OF HORSE CARRIAGES ACROSS THE NATION, REVEALING A HISTORY OF HEAT STROKE, EXHAUSTION, HORSE DEATHS, AND CRASHES. WE MUSTN'T ALLOW OUR CRAVING FOR ENTERTAINMENT OR NOSTALGIA TO OUTWEIGH OUR COMMON SENSE OR COMPASSION FOR LIFE ITSELF. THIS PRACTICE IS ANTIQUATED AT BEST, AND A ST. AUGUSTINE TRAGEDY IN WAITING AT WORST. WE IMPLORE YOU IN THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. HEATHER WILSON, FOLLOWED BY SCOTT YORK. >> GOOD EVENING. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK, AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR AGENDA ITEM. TONIGHT, I WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT MISSING CARRIAGE HORSES. IT IS LITERALLY BUILT INTO THE ST. AUGUSTINE MUNICIPAL CODE THAT SPENT CARRIAGE HORSES CAN GO TO SLAUGHTER. THIS IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF EQUINE PRACTITIONERS, AND, YES, WE ARE SENDING CARRIAGE HORSES TO SLAUGHTER FROM THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE. LET'S LOOK AT A POLICE REPORT FILED BY MISS LACY SANCHEZ, A FORMER EMPLOYEE OF COUNTRY CARRIAGES, WHO THEN MOVED ON TO WORK FOR A DIFFERENT CARRIAGE COMPANY. HER COMPLAINT OF ANIMAL ABUSE IS BACKED WITH CLEAR VIDEOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE, WHICH WAS SHOWN EARLIER. AND HERE IS AN EXCERPT FROM THIS POLICE REPORT. LACY THEN STATED THAT JENNIFER CUSHIN HAD TOLD HER THAT SHE SOLD HER OLD HORSES TO AN UNKNOWN PERSON IN OCALA AS TIGER FOOD. HERE IS MISS SANCHEZ'S SWORN TESTIMONY TO THE POLICE, AND I HAVE AN AUDIO CLIP. >> [INAUDIBLE] STRAP. SO THEY HAVE SHE HAS LESS THAN AN ACRE OUT THERE, AND THAT'S WHERE SHE STASHES HORSES THAT CAN NO LONGER WORK OR THAT LOOK BAD. SHE DOESN'T WANT THEM DOWN HERE BECAUSE THE LOCKERS AND SHUFFLE SANS, SO SHE'LL TAKE THEM AND STASH THEM OUT THERE. SHE HAS TOLD ME BEFORE, SHE SELLS HORSES TO AMANA OCALA FOR TIGER FOOD. AT LEAST SHE GETS 200 OR $300. >> ACCORDING TO THE RECORDS THAT I HAVE RECEIVED FROM THE CITY, THE FOLLOWING COUNTRY CARRIAGE HORSES HAVE NOT HAD A VET EXAM SINCE 2020. CODY, CHIP, DALE, KING, LEXUS, DUKE, EARL, TUNA RIFFIC, HOLLY, RAZ, SUMMER, SPRING, MELDI, WHO IS INCIDENTALLY MISS SANCHEZ'S HORSE, AND A HORSE NAMED KING, WHICH IS RATHER ODD BECAUSE I MET A HORSE NAMED KING AT THE SLUMS AT HALING PARK. SO WHAT HAS BECOME OF THESE REMAINING 12 HORSES, WHOSE LAST KNOWN WHEREABOUTS WERE IN 2020? HAVE THEY DISAPPEARED AT THE CUSHIONS' PLACE AT STRATTON? HAVE THEY BEEN SOLD TO SOMEBODY IN OCALA FOR TIGER FOOD? HAVE THEY BEEN SENT OFF TO SLAUGHTER, AS IS ALLOWED BY ST. AUGUSTINE MUNICIPAL CODE? I'M ASKING IF WE CAN PLEASE KINDLY PUT THIS ON THE AGENDA AND NOT JUST THE WINDOW DRESSING OF LOOKING AT THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENTS, BUT ACTUALLY PUTTING THIS ON THE AGENDA. DO WE STILL WANT TO HAVE THIS CRUELTY AND CORRUPTION IN OUR CITY? BECAUSE WE NEED TO DO THIS BEFORE EVEN ONE MORE INNOCENT HORSE LOSES HIS OR HER LIFE. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. >> NEXT SPEAKER IS SCOTT YORK, FOLLOWED BY CHARLES BAILEY. >> GOOD EVENING, SCOTT YORK, 29 SPANISH STREET, THE MOST CHARMING STREET IN ST. AUGUSTINE. I HAD A FEW MOMENTS TO PULL TOGETHER A COUPLE OF VIDEOS REAL QUICKLY AS I WAS SITTING HERE LISTENING. I CAME ON MY VERY FIRST TRIP TO ST. AUGUSTINE WAY BACK IN 1979. [01:05:01] I WAS ON A FOURTH GRADE FIELD TRIP. I REMEMBER GOING HOME RIGHT AFTER THAT AND ASKING MY GRANDPARENTS IF WE COULD COME BACK BECAUSE I SAW THOSE HORSE AND BUGGIES RIDING DOWN THE STREET, AND I WANTED TO TAKE A RIDE ON THEM. AND WITHIN ABOUT A MONTH, THEY'D PULLED TOGETHER THE FUNDS TO BRING US BACK UP HERE. I STILL REMEMBER THAT FIELD TRIP. I STILL REMEMBER THAT CARRIAGE RIDE. FOR THE LAST 37 YEARS, I'VE BEEN BRINGING FOURTH GRADERS ON FIELD TRIPS HERE. I RARELY EVER GET A COMMENT ABOUT THE TROLLEYS AND THEN SEEING GO BY AND BEING EXCITED. THEY DO ASK ME IF THEY'RE GOING TO GET TO RIDE THEM, AND I TELL THEM, NO, WE'RE GOING TO RIDE RIDE AND LEFTY TODAY, OUR RIGHT FOOT AND LEFT FOOT. BUT WHEN THEY SEE THOSE HORSE AND BUGGIES GO BY, IT'S NOT JUST THE FOURTH GRADERS. THEIR PARENTS ARE EXCITED TO SEE THEM, TOO. IT IS SOMETHING THAT GIVES US PART OF THE CHARM. WE WERE VOTED IN THE TOP TEN CITIES BY CONNEAUT. AGAIN, SOMETIMES WE PAY FOR THOSE VOTES, BUT WE GOT IT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BRINGS THAT CHARM TO US IS THOSE HORSE AND BUGGIES. I'VE GOT A COUPLE OF VIDEOS HERE. JUST GOING TO LET THEM RUN. WHILE I FINISHED TALKING TO YOU, THIS IS THEM WRITING DOWN SPANISH STREET. THEY USED TO BE ABLE TO COME DOWN THERE, BUT WE'VE CLOSED THAT OFF NOW TO VEHICLES. BUT IT DOES SHOW YOU THE CHARM THAT IT BRINGS. IMAGINE WALKING AROUND ON A WALKING HISTORY TOUR AND BEING ABLE TO SEE THOSE HORSE AND BUGGIES GO BY. THEY'VE BEEN PLAYING A ROLE HERE IN ST. AUGUSTINE SINCE THE EARLY MID 1800S. THEY WORKED A LOT HARDER BACK THEN THAN WHAT THEY DO NOW. I GET TO WALK BY THE BAYFRONT EVERY SINGLE DAY AND SEE THOSE HORSES, NOT JUST WORKING, BUT BEING TAKEN CARE OF BY THEIR DRIVERS. THEY'RE THEIR FRIENDS. THOSE ARE THEIR BABIES. I'VE NEVER SEEN THEM MISTREATED OVER THERE. I CAN'T SAY I SEE EVERY SINGLE THING THAT GOES ON. BUT I'VE NEVER SEEN THEM MISTREATED THERE. I HAVE ONE MORE VIDEO, AND THIS COUPLE PAID US TO CAPTURE THEIR WEDDING MEMORIES WHILE THEY WERE HERE IN ST. AUGUSTINE. I GOT PAID $1,000 TO PUT TOGETHER AN EDITED VIDEO. THAT IS WAY MORE THAN WHAT THOSE HORSE AND BUGGY DRIVERS GET PAID FOR A RIDE AROUND OUR TOWN. THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF WAYS TO LEARN ABOUT THE HISTORY HERE IN ST. AUGUSTINE. WE WANT TO SHARE OUR HISTORY. WHETHER IT'S A TROLLEY RIDE, A WALKING TOUR, A GOLF CART TOUR, A HORSE AND BUGGIES, OR ANY ONE OF THE OTHER NUMEROUS WAYS TO LEARN ABOUT THE CITY. THIS IS JUST ONE WAY. THEY COST WAY LESS THAN A TROLLEY RIDE, AND I THINK THAT IT'S WORTHWHILE KEEPING THEM HERE IN OUR TOWN. THANK YOU. >> NEXT SPEAKER IS CHARLES BAILEY, FOLLOWED BY WILLIAM CUSHIN. >> THIS IS NEW TO ME. I'M FROM TROY, OHIO, I AM A PRACTICING EQUINE CHIROPRACTOR. I HAVE A DOCTORATE DEGREE FROM PALMER COLLEGE, BUT I'VE BEEN PRACTICING ON HORSES FOR 45 PLUS YEARS. I'VE BEEN DOING THE COUNTRY CARRIAGES HORSES. THESE HORSES ARE SO WELL CARED FOR, THEY GET CHIROPRACTIC CARE. HOW MANY OF YOU GET CHIROPRACTIC CARE? HOW MANY OF YOU PEOPLE GET CHIROPRACTIC CARE? THEY GET MASSAGE THERAPISTS, THEY ALSO GET ACUPUNCTURE. WE PERFORM ACUPUNCTURE USING RED LIGHT, LOW LEVEL LASERS, RELAXES THESE ANIMALS. I'VE SEEN THESE ANIMALS, I'VE TREATED THESE ANIMALS AS FAR AS THE STANDING WATER. I'LL TAKE YOU TO FARMS IN OCALA THAT ARE MAJOR HORSE FARMS. THE HORSES ARE STANDING IN WATER. YOU'VE HAD SO MUCH RAIN, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE WET PASTURES. I KNOW THESE HORSES GET THE BEST VETERINARY CARE. THEY CALL ME IN OHIO AT TIMES AND ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT TREATMENTS AND INJURIES. I'VE HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF WORKING WITH SOME OF THE TOP VETERINARIANS IN THE COUNTRY. I'M THE FIRST CHIROPRACTOR EVER PUT ON STAFF AT A VETERINARY CLINIC IN KENTUCKY. I TRAINED THOROUGHBREDS FOR 25 YEARS. TIGER MEAT, YOU'D BE SURPRISED HOW MANY THOROUGHBREDS GO FOR TIGER MEAT. WE EUTHANIZE THEM HUMANELY AND CAN'T USE DRUGS ON THEM, BUT THEY DO HAVE PURPOSE BEYOND THAT. THEY FEED LARGE ANIMALS THAT HAVE BEEN NEGLECTED AND RESCUED, SO THERE IS A PURPOSE. THESE HORSES MEAN A LOT TO ME, IT'S MY LIVING. LIKE I SAID, I'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR 45 YEARS. I GOT OUT OF THE HUMAN PRACTICE BECAUSE OF A MEDICAL CONDITION CALLED ESSENTIAL TREMOR WHERE YOUR HANDS SHAKE, HORSES DON'T CARE. I SEE THESE HORSES EVERY OTHER MONTH TO EVERY MONTH WHEN I'M DOWN THERE. I JUST MOVED BACK TO FLORIDA, AND I'D LOVE TO STAY IN ST. AUGUSTINE, BUT CAN'T AFFORD Y'ALL. BUT I'M STILL TREATING THEIR HORSES, WE'LL PROBABLY BE SEEING THEM IN THE NEXT WEEK OR SO. I INVITE THESE PEOPLE COME OVER AND SEE WHAT WE DO. SEE HOW THESE HORSES ARE CARED FOR. I HAVE TAKEN THE CARRIAGE RIDES, [01:10:02] AND IT WAS A GREAT WAY TO SEE ST. AUGUSTINE. I LOVE ST. AUGUSTINE, SO ALL I'M SAYING IS, I KNOW THE CHARACTER OF THESE HORSES GET, I KNOW THE VETERINARY CHARACTER GET. STANDING IN RAINWATER, YOU'VE HAD SO MUCH RAINWATER, THERE'S LOW AREAS. THEIR FEET ARE GOING TO GET WET, BUT THEIR FEET ARE CARED FOR. THEY'VE COME OUT OF THEIR STALLS OR OUT OF THEIR PADDOCKS. THE FEET I'VE SEEN THEM, THEY FEET GET PICKED, THEY GET CLEANED. IF THERE'S AN INJURY, THEY GET TREATED. I SEE A WHOLE LOT OF MANURE COMING OUT. WHAT I'VE SEEN SOME OF THESE PEOPLE, WHAT THEY KNOW ABOUT A HORSE IS HEY GOES IN ONE END AND IT'S RECYCLED ON THE OTHER SO THAT'S ABOUT ALL TIME. I'M ABOUT OUT OF TIME ANYWAY. BUT THANK YOU, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, COUNCILMAN, FOR LISTENING TO ME. I'M AN OUTSIDER, BUT I'M HERE FOR THEM. THANK YOU. >> NEXT SPEAKER IS WILLIAM CUSHION FOLLOWED BY MARK FRASER. >> HELLO, I'M WILLIAM CUSHION LIVE ON STRATTON BOULEVARD, THE WHATEVER THEY WANT TO CALL DISPOSAL PLACE. TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NONE OF OUR HORSES HAVE EVER GONE TO A SLAUGHTER HOUSE. WE HAVE THREE NOW OUT IN HASTINGS, WE'VE GOT MORE THAN THAT IN OCALA. ONCE THEY'RE DONE WORKING FOR US, WE TRY TO FIND A HOME FOR HIM THAT'S SOMEBODY THAT WANTS A BACKYARD PET OR SOMEBODY THAT'S GOING TO GO TRAIL DRIVE. PLAIN AND SIMPLE, I COULD NOT TAKE IT, AND THE PUBLICITY, IT WOULD BE DEVASTATING IF WE TRULY TOOK A HORSE TO SLAUGHTER. THESE GUYS GIVE US WHAT THEY CAN, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT TO THEM. AS FAR AS THE ABUSE COURSES THAT THEY WANTED TO RAMBLE ON, MY EXACT WORDS TO THE OFFICER THAT TALKED TO ME WHEN I HAD THE MINIATURE HORSE IN MY HAND, AND IT ATTACKED ME WAS THAT IF YOU ASKED 10 TRAINERS, HALF WOULD SAY I WENT TOO FAR, THE OTHER HALF WOULD SAY I DIDN'T GO FAR ENOUGH. IT'S ALL IN HOW YOU'VE BEEN TAUGHT AND HOW YOU'VE BEEN RAISED. IT IS VERY SAD THAT IT'S AS UGLY OUT THERE AS IT IS, AND I'M TALKING ABOUT UGLY TO THE BONE THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH. IT'S GOTTEN TO THE POINT I HAVE TO VIDEOTAPE EVERY TIME A CARRIAGE LEAVES STANDS WHEN THEY'RE THERE, SO THEY DON'T SCREAM PROFANITIES AT OUR PEOPLE. JUST FOR GIGGLES, THAT RIGHT THERE IS A LIST OF OUR HORSES THAT ARE INSPECTED, AND THE INSPECTION SHEETS ARE RIGHT THERE. I'M GOING TO MAKE THE CITY A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY 'CAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO REQUEST THEM AND GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE PAY FOR ALL THE COPYING THAT'S DONE. THE WAY THESE PEOPLE ARE TREATING, EVERYBODY'S ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION AND I'M TOTALLY OKAY WITH THAT. BUT WHEN YOU TALK TO ONE AND SAY, YOU'RE ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION, AND BEFORE I COULD FINISH SAYING, I'M ENTITLED TO MINE, THEY SAID, NO, YOU'RE NOT. THIS ISN'T ABOUT SAVING THE HORSES. HALF THE PEOPLE THAT SPOKE, I BELIEVE, AND I'M WORKING ON GETTING THE PROOF, ARE ALL PAID ACTIVISTS. IT'S SAD BECAUSE IF YOU'RE NOT PAID, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN AFFORD TO BE OUT THERE ON A FRIDAY, SATURDAY NIGHT. THESE PEOPLE AS MUCH TIME AS THEY'RE SPENDING HECKLING THE CITY AND DOING ALL OF THAT, IT'S RIDICULOUS. I'LL GIVE THIS BATCH OF PAPERS TO THE COMPANY, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. >> MARK FRASER IS OUR NEXT SPEAKER, FOLLOWED BY JENNIFER CUSHION WHO IS OUR LAST CARD. >> GOOD EVENING. >> EXCUSE ME. >> SURE. >> PLEASE. I'M ASKING FOR ORDER IN THE ROOM. PLEASE, LET'S ALL RESPECT ONE ANOTHER. THANK YOU. >> GOOD EVENING, COMMISSIONERS, AND MAYOR. IT'S 15 YEARS AGO, THE FIRST TIME I GOT THE JOY OF STANDING HERE BEFORE YOU. I KNOW AT LEAST ONE OF YOU SHOULD REMEMBER THAT. AT THAT TIME, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A CARRIAGE ORDINANCE. THERE WAS A LOT OF QUESTIONS, THERE WAS A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH IN IT, AND WE ENDED UP WITH WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE A VERY GOOD CARRIAGE ORDINANCE. I HAVE OWNED HORSES FOR OVER HALF A CENTURY MYSELF. I HAVE BEEN A PROFESSIONAL CARRIAGE DRIVER STARTING 38 YEARS AGO, I ALSO, FOR 22 YEARS, WAS IN PUBLIC SERVICE, FIVE YEARS OF WHICH, I WAS A DEPUTY SHERIFF, WHERE I WORKED WITH BOTH KINES AND THE MOUNTED PATROL UNIT. ONE THING THAT I'VE LEARNED OVER THE YEARS IS YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE ANIMALS. [01:15:01] THE HANDLERS DO KNOW HOW TO LISTEN TO THE ANIMALS. WE SPEND ENOUGH TIME WITH THESE ANIMALS THAT WHEN THERE IS A PROBLEM, THE ANIMAL LETS US KNOW, AND WE DEAL WITH IT ACCORDINGLY. THE OTHER THING THAT WAS BROUGHT UP TONIGHT, THERE WERE FOUR HORSES ON THAT LIST THAT ARE DISAPPEARED THAT I HAVE PERSONALLY DRIVEN. CHIP AND DALE HAVE NOT BEEN AROUND THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE WORKING FOR AT LEAST 13 YEARS. I HEARD SUMMER MENTIONED, SUMMER, HER MOTHER IS SPRING. SPRING AND SUMMER HAVE BEEN AROUND HERE. THEY WERE RETIRED AT THE BEGINNING OF COVID AND, YES, THEY LIVED IN MY BACKYARD OUT ON STRATTON BOULEVARD FOR MANY YEARS, AND THEY HAVE NOW BEEN MOVED TO HASTINGS. THE HORSES HERE ARE NOT EVER TAKEN FOR SLAUGHTER. I PERSONALLY, ANY HORSE I'VE BEEN AROUND, I DON'T KNOW THAT HAS EVER WENT THAT WAY. SOME OF THE HORSES THAT I HAVE DRIVEN IN THE PAST, HAVE DIED FROM OLD AGE. THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT LIVING BEINGS THEY DO DIE. BUT WE ARE OUT THERE, WE'RE TRYING TO TAKE CARE OF THEM. I'M GETTING TIRED OF HEARING SOME OF THE MISTRUS. WE TAKE A SNIPPET OF A VIDEO AND WE'RE ABLE TO MAKE IT INTO WHATEVER WE WANT TO MAKE IT INTO. THE CONSTITUTION GUARANTEES ME THE RIGHT OF P SUIT OF HAPPINESS AMONGST OTHER RIGHTS. FREEDOM OUT HERE IS SCARY ANYMORE. MY RIGHTS SHOULDN'T END WHERE SOMEONE ELSE'S FEARS BEGIN. AT THAT POINT, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO GET OVER IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND ATTENTION TONIGHT. >> I SEE WE HAVE MORE COMING. MY NEXT SPEAKER CARD IS JENNIFER CUSHION. FOLLOWED BY REBECCA FOGEL. >> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, COMMISSIONERS. JENNIFER CUSHION, WE ALL KNOW WHO. IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING, I KNOW Y'ALL ARE ABOUT THE SAME POINT AS WE ARE. AS FAR AS LACY SANCHEZ, YOU GUYS KNOW THE BACKSTORY ON THAT. SHE ENDED UP GETTING HER OWN LICENSE, AND SHE DIDN'T LIKE ME. EVEN THOUGH I TOOK CARE OF HER CHILDREN AND MANY MANY THINGS FOR HER. SHE WAS TRYING TO GET RID OF ME, SHE TRIED EVERYTHING SHE COULD, INCLUDING ALL OF THESE FALSE STATEMENTS AND POLICE REPORTS, SHE HAD ONE POLICE REPORT, SHE SAID I THREATENED HER. I WAS SITTING IN A CHAIR ON THE BAY FRONT AND SHE WAS ON THE FAR END. WHEN THE COP SAID, WELL, WHAT DID SHE DO TO YOU? DID SHE EVEN GET OUT OF THE CHAIR? SHE SAID, NO. WELL, THAT DOESN'T COUNT, I CAN YELL. ANYWAY, THAT'S POINTLESS BEHIND US, BUT AS FAR AS LACY IS CONCERNED, THAT'S NULL AND VOID. YOU ALL HAD AS MUCH PAPERWORK FOR HER AS YOU DID FOR THESE GUYS. AS FAR AS MY HORSES, MY HORSES ARE VERY LOVED AND CARED FOR. I JUST RETIRED THREE HORSES. ONE IS IN NORTH CAROLINA, NEAR, MYRTLE BEACH, AND I HAVE WONDERFUL PICTURES OF HIM. HE'S GOT A NEW DONKEY FRIEND THAT HE ABSOLUTELY ADORES, AND HE'S LIVING ON 50 ACRES AND HAPPY AS A CLAIM. HE GOT OUT OF THE BUGS, WHICH WAS A BIG PROBLEM FOR HIM. HE WAS A VERY FAMOUS HORSE IN OCALA. THEY HAVE PLAQUES FOR HIM IN THE SQUARE. HIS NAME IS TINY PRINCE CHARMING, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS ABOUT SEVEN FOOT TALL. THEN THE OTHER TWO, THEY JUST I BOUGHT HIM, I TRIED TO REHAB HIM. IT WAS WAY OUT OF MY REACH AND AFFORDABILITY, AND I FOUND THEM A NEW HOME THERE IN VIRGINIA TO RESCUE AND HAPPY AS CAN BE. HORSES DO PASS AWAY, WE DO LOSE HORSES. UNFORTUNATELY, IN FLORIDA, WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH SAND, AND SAND CAN KILL THESE HORSES EASILY. I CAN'T FATHOM THAT THEY EVEN THINK THAT SOMEONE WOULD SELL HORSES FOR TIGER. YOU CAN'T GIVE HORSES DRUGS. WELL, WHEN MY HORSES GET SICK, THEY GET DRUGS, THEY GET TREATED BY A VET, WHETHER IT'S HERE OR I GO OF TWO HOURS AWAY TO OCALA SO YOU CAN'T USE THEM FOR MEAT. I CAN'T EVEN THINK OF THE WORD, I'M SO FRUSTRATED. ANYWAY, MY HORSES ARE CARED FOR, YOU GUYS KNOW THE TRUTH. YOU SEE HOW THINGS GO. IN ALL HONESTY, I WISH YOU'D JUST TELL THEM THAT WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE. BUT THAT'S UP TO Y'ALL, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. >> NEXT SPEAKER, AND MY LAST SPEAKER CARD IS REBECCA FOGEL. [01:20:16] >> GOOD EVENING Y'ALL, MY NAME IS REBECCA FOGEL. I RESIDE AT 925 SHADOW WAY, ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA. I CAME INTO TOWN IN 2005, I HAD HOPPED A GREYHOUND BUS TO GO TO FLAGLER COLLEGE. ONCE I WAS ESTABLISHED HERE, LIVING ACROSS THE STREET, I TOOK A JOB, SELLING SHOES ON ST. GEORGE STREET. THAT WASN'T CUTTING IT. I TOOK A JOB AS A HORSE AND CARRIAGE TO GUIDE. I ANSWERED A AD THAT WAS PLACED IN THE ST. AUGUSTINE RECORD. IT STATED SIMPLY, CARRIAGE DRIVERS WANTED, EXPERIENCE PREFERRED WILL TRAINING READING THAT, BEING WHO I AM, WHICH IS A PONY TOWN GIRL FROM SOUTHERN KENTUCKY, VIRGINIA, NORTH CAROLINA, WHEREVER THE ARMY PUT MY DAD, I TOOK THIS JOB. I FELL IN LOVE WITH IT, I FELL IN LOVE WITH THE PEOPLE, THE HORSES, AND THE CITY. WHEN I GRADUATED FLAGLER IN 2009, I WENT A DRIFT IN THE WIND. I WORKED AT ST. GERARD CAMPUS OVER ON US ONE. I EVENTUALLY LANDED WITH THE UNITED STATES NAVY ON AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER, AND I SERVED FOR FOUR YEARS. WHEN I GOT OUT OF THE NAVY, I ATTENDED IDLE AERONAUTICAL UNIVERSITY, AND WHILE I WAS IN GRAD SCHOOL, I TOOK A JOB WITH AT THE TIME SISTER IN LAW JAN CUSHION WHO OWNS COUNTRY CARRIAGES WITH HER HUSBAND, BILL. I CAN'T TELL YOU WHERE I WOULD BE WITHOUT THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT THIS INDUSTRY PROVIDED ME. BECAUSE OF MY PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE AND MY DEGREES, IF YOU GUYS ARE REWRITING THE ORDINANCES, THERE ARE A FEW OTHER THINGS I'D PUT IN. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HEAT, WE TALK ABOUT THE HORSES, WE TALK ABOUT OTHER CITIES, BUT WHAT ARE WE DOING FOR THE DRIVERS? WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT FACILITIES FOR THE HORSES, HIGH AND DRY LAND, PLACES TO SLEEP, WHEN I'M AT THE BARN, I DON'T HAVE A POT TO PISS IN UNLESS I BRING IT PARDON MY FRENCH. THE ONLY WATER AVAILABLE TO DRIVERS COMES VIA A HOSE ON THE BAY FRONT. I UNDERSTAND WE'RE MOVING THAT TAKE OFF LOCATION. IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE GENEROSITY OF THE BUSINESSES ACROSS THE STREET FROM US, THE TINY MARTINI, ME AND THE HILTON, WE WOULDN'T HAVE BEVERAGES OR FACILITIES TO MAKE IT A HUMANE SITUATION FOR THE PEOPLE. THERE IS THE RECOMMENDATION I JUST LEARNED ABOUT TONIGHT WITH THE CORDOVA, KING STREET, HOWEVER IT'S GOING TO WRAP AROUND WHEN WE GOT 20 CARRIAGES OUT DURING THE NIGHTS OF LIGHTS YOU'LL TELL ME. BUT THERE ARE EXISTING FACILITIES FOR HORSES TO GET WATER THEY'VE BEEN PART OF OUR CITY FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS. IF THE CITY WAS TO JUST UPDATE THOSE, THAT WOULD HELP US A LOT. THE ONE THAT WAS BUILT THE PARKING GARAGE ON WEST CASTILLO IS IN NEED OF REPAIR CONSTANTLY, IT'S NOT DESIGNED PROPERLY. THANK YOU FOR MY TIME. >> THANK YOU, I HAVE NO MORE SPEAKER CARDS. PUBLIC COMMENT IS CLOSED. MR. SACRED. >> DID YOU HAVE ANY CLARIFICATIONS AFTER HEARING THE PUBLIC COMMENT? >> JUST ONE. LATE FRIDAY AFTERNOON, AN EMAIL CAME IN NOTING FROM ONE OF YOUR SPEAKERS TONIGHT, IDENTIFYING THAT THOSE PONIES WERE THERE, AND INDEED, IT IS CONTRARY TO OUR LEASE AGREEMENT. I REACHED OUT TO MS. CUSHIN SATURDAY MORNING, AND I INFORMED HER THAT AS OF THIS MORNING AS THE CITY, WE WROTE HER LETTER AS PER STANDARD THAT SHE'S IN VIOLATION OF THAT CLAUSE IN THE CONTRACT. THAT LETTER HAS GONE OUT, AND I'VE ASKED HER TO REMOVE THOSE ANIMALS FROM THE ONE ACRE STABLE. >> GREAT. THERE MIGHT BE SOME CONFUSION ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ONE ACRE STABLE AND THE TRANSFER STATION? I SAW SOME VIDEOS AND THINGS. COULD YOU JUST GO OVER THAT? WE ALL UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE. >> ABSOLUTELY. AT THE TRANSFER STATION, THERE ARE FOUR MEDALLIONS THERE. THOSE HORSES, THAT IS NOT A STABLING FACILITY. IT'S MERELY A TRANSFER STATION WHERE THE OPERATORS BRING THE HORSES IN THE MORNING OR IN THE EARLY AFTERNOON. THEY BRING THEM OFF THEIR TRAILER. THEY PUT THEM IN THE STABLE, AND THEN THEY HOOK THEM TO THE CARRIAGE, AND THEN THEY GO OUT FOR THE EVENING. THEY COME BACK. THEY DECOUPLE THEIR HORSES. THEY POSSIBLY PUT THEM IN THE STALL FOR A LITTLE WHILE, [01:25:01] AND THEN THEY TAKE THEM OUT AND THEN REMOVE THEM. THE OWNERS OR THE OPERATORS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE HORSES OVERNIGHT. THAT'S IN OUR LEASE AGREEMENTS. AT THE ONE ACRE HORSE STABLES, THAT IS A STABLING FACILITY. HORSES STAY THERE AND THAT'S THE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TRANSFER STATION AND THEN THE ONE ACRE PROPERTY. THEN, AGAIN, THAT ONE ACRE PROPERTY IS UNDER OPERATION OF COUNTRY CARRIAGES. >> OVER THE YEARS, I JUST WANT TO SAY BEFORE THE COMMISSIONERS DISCUSS. I JUST LIKE TO SAY OVER THE YEARS, THAT THAT MAY BE ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE DIDN'T SEE, I THINK YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT DEFICIENCIES IN CORRECTIVE ACTIONS, PROVIDING PASTURE TIME, AND I THINK YOU HAD MENTIONED, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW TO MANAGE THAT. WELL, I THINK AS I RECALL, WE WROTE THE ORDINANCE BEFORE WE HAD THE TRANSFER STATION. I THINK THE TRANSFER STATION WAS BILLED AFTER THAT SO THAT MAY BE AN AREA I THINK WE PROBABLY WANT TO ADDRESS. I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT BECAUSE I THINK THERE WAS A REASON WHY IT'S CONFUSING AND MAYBE ANTIQUATED. BUT I'M INTERESTED IN HEARING WHAT THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS FOR. DOES ANYONE HAVE QUESTIONS? COMMISSIONER GARRIS, YOU HAVE QUESTIONS OF STAFF BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO OUR DEBATE. >> YEAH. I BELIEVE I WAS A FACILITY. THAT WOULD HELP. I WAS IN FACILITIES WHEN WE OPENED UP THAT TRANSFER STATION AND IT WAS REALLY WELL NEEDED AND I RECALL THE OTHER PLACE THAT'S NEXT TO IT. I GUESS THAT'S ONE THAT WE RENT OUT THAT'S ON CITY PROPERTY. WE NEVER REALLY DID ANYTHING WITH I GUESS THAT'S THE COUNTRY CARRIAGE SIDE, IS THAT RIGHT? >> YES, FOR MY KNOWLEDGE, THAT WE'VE NEVER PUT ANY BUILDINGS ON THAT FACILITY AND THAT THEY WERE ALL CONSTRUCTED BY THE OPERATOR. >> WE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH THAT PARTICULAR BUILDING, BUT WE DID DO THE ONE THAT YOU SHOWED THAT'S BEEN PAINTED AND SO FORTH. WE'VE BEEN KEEPING THAT UP TO CODE AND TAKE CARE OF. >> YES, MA'AM. IN THEIR LEASE AGREEMENT, DIFFERENCE REMEMBER, WE HAVE THE FRANCHISE AGREEMENT, WHICH ALLOWS THEM TO OPERATE ON THE STREETS AND THEN A LEASE AGREEMENT, WHICH GIVES THEM THE PROPERTY TO LOAD AND UNLOAD A THE TRANSFER STATION, THEY HAVE A MONTHLY RENT. IN THAT MONTHLY RENT, THERE'S BUILT IN $50. IT'S CALLED A SINKING FUND IN WHICH THOSE FUNDS ARE UTILIZED TO MAINTAIN THAT FACILITY. >> IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, THEY HAD FANS AND ALL THINGS IN THERE TO KEEP THE HORSES COOL AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE ONCE THEY GO BACK INTO THAT PARTICULAR BUILDING, IS THAT RIGHT? >> YES, MA'AM. >> ARE ALL THAT STUFF IS STILL UPDATED AND OPERATING? >> WE DO NOT PROVIDE THE FANS, BUT YES ALL THE EQUIPMENT THAT THE CITY OUR STAFF TAKES PRIDE IN MAKING SURE THAT TRANSFER STATION LOOKS GOOD. >> WHAT IS THE CONDITION OF THE GRASS AND THINGS IN OUR AREA THAT WE'RE USING THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION THAT WE OPERATE OUT OF? >> THE TRANSFER STATION ISN'T SET UP TO HAVE ANY PASTURE. IT IS A FENCED IN AREA, AND THE OPERATORS DON'T LET THE HORSES ROAM AROUND. SO WHEN THEY BRING THE HORSES IN, THEY EITHER TAKE THEM OUT TO THE BACK OR THEY BRUSH THEM AND STUFF ALL THE WAY IN THE BACK? THERE'S A PAD OUT THERE. THEN, EXCUSE ME, I DON'T HAVE ANY. I'M NOT A HORSE. BUT THEY'LL BRUSH THEM DOWN, AND THEN THEY'LL TAKE THEM INTO THE STABLE, WHERE THEY HAVE TWO STALLS PER MEDALLION. THEN THAT'S WHERE THEY PUT THE HORSE IN PLACE. THE HORSES DON'T ROAM AROUND. >> THEY'RE JUST CONTAINED IN THERE. >> THAT'S CORRECT. THAT'S WHY IT'S A TRANSFER STATION, MA'AM. >> THANK YOU. >> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? NO. I WILL JUST GO THROUGH MY LIST REALLY QUICKLY. I APPRECIATE THE CHANGE IN THE ROUTE. IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE STAY IN OUR MINDS AT LEAST FLEXIBLE AS WE GO THROUGH THE NEW ROUTES AND THE NEW LOCATIONS WHEN WE HAVE TO MOVE THE CARRIAGES OFF THE BAY FRONT, BECAUSE WE MIGHT FIND THAT THEY DON'T REALLY FIT THE WAY THAT WE DISCUSSED, YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO PUT AS MANY CARRIAGES OVER AT THE CIRCLE AT THE TURNOUT AT THE VISITORS INFORMATION CENTER. THAT'S JUST MY OBSERVATION. IT SOUNDS PRETTY AGGRESSIVE. I THINK YOU HAD NINE CARRIAGES, YOU WERE THINKING, WAS THAT WHAT WE DISCUSSED ABOUT? >> I THINK WE CAN FIT SEVEN AT THE CLOCK TOWER. >> SEVEN AT THE CLOCK TOWER. IT SEEMED A BIT AGGRESSIVE TO ME. I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT WE KEEP OUR MINDS OPEN AS WE MOVE FORWARD WHEN WE MOVE THEM OFF OF THE BAY FRONT, WHICH IS GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN. DO WE KNOW? >> WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHEN DOT IS GOING TO START STAGING FOR THE C WALL REPLACEMENT, [01:30:04] OTHER THAN WE HOPE IT'S AFTER THE NIGHTS OF LIGHT. >> THANK YOU. I DO, LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, I THINK THAT WE PROBABLY WANT TO GO BACK OVER SECTION 27-146 MONITORING AND COMPLIANCE, IN LIGHT THAT WE HAVE THE TRANSFER STATION NOW AND REWORK THAT, FIND A WAY TO ACTUALLY MAKE THAT ENFORCEABLE. I GET THE PURPOSE BEHIND IT. I THINK THAT THE HORSES DO DESERVE PASTURE TIME AT INTERVALS, BUT WE REALLY NEED TO RETHINK THAT. I'D LIKE TO REVISIT THAT IN THE FUTURE. I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO ESTABLISH IT'S INTERESTING WHAT HAPPENED WITH 27-132 WITH THE LOADING AND UNLOADING.. ESTABLISHING THE COST OF THE RIDES. CONSISTENTLY WE DO THAT WITH CABS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DO. WE DID THAT WITH CABS. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING MAYBE WE JUST NEVER, AS A COMMISSION GOT AROUND TO DOING WHEN WE UPDATED THE ORDINANCE. MR. FRASER IS RIGHT, I WAS HERE WHEN WE UPDATED THE ORDINANCE, THE BIG UPDATE, THE FIRST ONE. I THINK THAT WE DO NEED TO TACKLE THAT ONE. I WOULD LIKE TO SUGGEST THAT WE LOOK AT AS YOU CALLED SISTER CITIES, SO TO SPEAK. I GUESS YOU'VE GOT C ISLAND, YOU'VE GOT SAVANNAH, YOU'VE GOT CHARLESTON, AND LOOK AT SEE HOW DO THEY MANAGE THAT WITH THE CONSISTENT HOW DO THEY CHARGE FOR RIDES? I THINK THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE. I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN WHAT THE OTHER COMMISSIONER SAY, BUT ALSO, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE LOOK AT THE STABLES PART, THE ONE ACRE PART, NOT THE TRANSFER STATION. I THINK YOU'RE DOING AN AMAZING JOB WITH THE TRANSFER STATION. IT LOOKS GREAT. I KNOW IT'S A NEWER FACILITY AND THAT YOU'RE TAKING GOOD CARE OF IT. BUT I THINK MAYBE I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT WE COULD DO WITH THE DRAINAGE, POTENTIALLY AT THE ONE ACRE STABLE SITE. HOW WE COULD CONTRIBUTE TO THAT. I KNOW IT'S EVERYWHERE IN ST. AUGUSTINE IS LOW AND WE ARE SUPER WET RIGHT NOW, AND IT'S BEEN SUPER WET THIS FALL. I'D BE INTERESTED IF THE COMMISSIONERS SUPPORT THAT IDEA TO LOOK AT WHAT WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE DRAINAGE THERE IN THE PASTURES AND THE PADDOCK AT THE STABLE FACILITY. IT IS OUR FACILITY, AND WE DO LEASE IT, AND I FEEL LIKE WE DO HAVE SOME RESPONSIBILITY THERE IN THAT. GENERALLY OVERALL, I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THE HORSE AND CARRIAGE INDUSTRY. I HAVE KNOWN MR. FRASER FOR MANY YEARS. I KNOW HIS CHARACTER. I KNOW MANY OF THE FOLKS FROM THE BUSINESS SIDE OF IT THAT HAVE COME AND BEEN OF GREAT ASSISTANCE TO THE CITY OVER TIME. IT IS A TOUGH BUSINESS. NOBODY'S GETTING RICH IN THAT BUSINESS, AND I TRULY BELIEVE IN MY HEART, THAT THEY DO IT FOR THE LOVE OF THE ANIMALS AND FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE CITY. WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THIS DEBATE SO MANY TIMES SINCE I'VE BEEN ON THE COMMISSION. WE'VE HAD PETER COME SO MANY TIMES WITH PROTESTS AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS. I'VE ALWAYS STOOD ON THE SIDE OF THE CARRIAGES. IT'S LIKE MR. YORK SAID, THAT IT'S A HISTORIC FEATURE OF OUR CITY, AND IT'S AN IMPORTANT ASSET TO US AS A TOURISM COMMUNITY. I'LL JUST SAY THAT, AND I'LL BE VERY INTERESTED IN HEARING HOW THE COMMISSIONERS FEEL ABOUT THIS. >> MADAM MAYOR, I ACTUALLY HAVE A POWERPOINT THAT I'D LIKE TO PRESENT. >> GREAT. >> I NEED TO COME OVER THERE. I WANT TO REMIND THE AUDIENCE THAT I HAVE MORE THAN THREE MINUTES. >> [LAUGHTER] YES, YOU WILL. >> I THINK BY OUR RULES, WE HAVE 10. >> YEAH, I GUESS SO IF YOU'RE DOING AN ACTUAL PRESENTATION. YOU'RE DOING SPONSORING YOURSELF, YOU HAVE 10 MINUTES. >> WELL, THE REASON I WANT TO DO IT THIS WAY IS BECAUSE I HAVE A LOT TO SAY, AND I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE ANY FRIENDS. I'M GOING TO LOSE FRIENDS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE BACK HERE. I HAVE HAD HORSES IN MY PAST. I RAN A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION THAT HAD HORSES AS HORSEBACK RIDING IN THE SUMMER IN FLORIDA. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE CARE OF ANIMALS, [01:35:01] PARTICULARLY WHEN I'M PAYING FOR THE VET OUT OF MY BUDGET. I DON'T REALLY BELIEVE THE HORSES ARE OVERWORKED. I THINK THERE ARE PROBABLY INDIVIDUAL CASES WHERE HORSES HAVE HAD PROBLEMS AND MISTREATED, AND THAT NEEDS TO BE SUPERVISED, AND WE CAN DO A BETTER JOB OF THAT. BUT I THINK GENERALLY THEY ARE CARED FOR AND THEY'RE LOVED, WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO FIND SOME FUNDS TO BE ABLE TO OFFER TO THE STAFF FOR THEM TO BE BETTER SUPERVISED. AVENIDA MENENDEZ IS THE DANGEROUS ROAD FOR SLOW HORSES, AND WE NEED TO GET THEM OFF PERMANENTLY. THE FEES WE RECEIVED FROM THE FRANCHISES APPEAR TO FALL VERY SHORT OF WHAT'S IN THE ORDINANCE, AND THIS WILL HELP US PAY FOR GETTING SOME SUPERVISION. MOVE OFF AVENIDA MENENDEZ FOR SAFETY REASONS AND FOR LOSS OF REVENUE. THERE ARE 16 PARKING SPACES THEY TAKE UP AT AN AVERAGE OF $24 A DAY TIMES $365 THAT'S 8,760 PER SPACE OR $140,000 A YEAR. WE'RE LOSING OUT OF PARKING FEES FOR THE HORSES BEING THERE. THE CURRENT CONDITION IS THAT THERE ARE 14 PERMITS, AND THEY EACH, IN THE PAST, HAVE PAID $1,000 PER PERMIT PER YEAR. THAT'S THE MINIMUM. THEY SHOULD BE PAYING AT LEAST 2.5% OF THEIR GROSS. NOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ACTUALLY MAKE AND I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD REQUIRE THEM TO TURN IN THEIR IRS FORMS. IT'S A PRIVATE BUSINESS, IT'S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS, BUT WE NEED TO SET OUR FEE STRUCTURE THAT CAN EQUATE TO THAT. ONE OF THEM DID PAY OVER $1,000 THIS YEAR, BY THE WAY, $1,000 IS EQUAL TO 2.5% OF $40,000. WE ARE ASSUMING THAT ONE CARRIAGE MADE $40,000 IN A WHOLE YEAR. SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES ARE JUST ONE CARRIAGE. NOW LET'S DO SOME ASSUMPTIONS. NOW, THIS IS NOT AN ASSUMPTION. THERE ARE 365 DAYS A YEAR. THE OFFICIAL WORK WEEK IS 260. BUT WE KNOW HORSES AREN'T OUT THERE ALL THE TIME. LET'S JUST ASSUME THEY'RE THERE 200 DAYS A YEAR. NOW, THIS IS NOT BASED ON ANY RESEARCH I DID. I'M JUST MAKING ASSUMPTIONS HERE JUST TO MAKE A POINT. LET'S ASSUME THAT THERE'S ONLY TWO RIDES A DAY PER CARRIAGE, 45 MINUTES OR AN HOUR. THEY OPERATE GENERALLY IN TWO SHIFTS, A MORNING SHIFT, AND AN AFTERNOON SHIFT OF ABOUT FOUR HOURS APIECE. YOU CAN IMAGINE THEY COULD DO MORE. THE MINIMUM COST ON THE WEB SITES IS $165. THAT GENERATES 400 RIDES TIMES 165 $66,000, AND THAT IS A LOT MORE THAN THEY'RE PAYING THEIR FEES FOR RIGHT NOW. MY INFORMATION IS THAT THEY CAN DO FOUR RIDES POSSIBLE IN A SHIFT, AND THEY PARTICULARLY DO THAT IN NIGHTS OF FLIGHTS, AND THEY HAVE AN OPTION TO DO TWO SHIFTS A DAY. THE PRICES ON THE WEBSITES VARY FROM $165 TO $475 FOR THAT BIG PUMPKIN WEDDING CARRIAGE WHICH I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THEM RECEIVING HOW MUCH EVER THEY CAN. I ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD NOT SET A FEE FOR THE HORSES THAT THEY SHOULD BE A COMPETITIVE BUSINESS AND MAKING WHAT THEY MAKE. I AGREE THAT THE CURRENT TEMPERATURE STANDARDS ARE NOT ADEQUATE. I SUGGEST THAT WE REDUCE IT TO 93 DEGREES AND REDUCE THE HEAT INDEX TO 100 DEGREES, AND WE BAN THE TOURS FROM JULY AND AUGUST BETWEEN THE TIMES OF 1:00-6:00. THOSE ARE THE HOTTEST TIMES OF THE DAY. WE DON'T HAVE TO GO OUT WITH A THERMOMETER AND CHECK WHETHER THEY'RE THERE. WE JUST KNOW THEY'RE NOT THERE DURING THOSE TIMES, AND THEY CAN RUN THEIR SHIFTS AROUND THOSE. THEY CAN HAVE A MORNING SHIFT FROM 10:00-1:00, AND THEN ONE FROM 6:00 UNTIL WE KNOW THEY GO LATE IN THE NIGHT. I WOULD MODIFY THE HOURS PER DAY FOR EACH HORSE WORKING RIGHT NOW, THEY CAN WORK EIGHT HOURS. I WOULD CHANGE THAT TO 6.5 IS CURRENTLY EIGHT, A MAXIMUM OF FIVE SHIFTS PER WEEK. BECAUSE IF YOU REALIZE THERE'S SEVEN DAYS, TWO SHIFTS, THAT'S 14 SHIFTS, AND A HORSE CAN'T WORK THAT. KEEP THE HORSE ACTIVITY, WHICH MEANS KEEPING A RECORD OF WHAT HORSES DOES WHAT SHIFT, AND WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME WAY OF TRACKING THAT. REQUIRE THE HORSE TO BE GIVEN A TURNOUT BREAK EACH SEASON FOR AT LEAST THREE WEEKS AT A PASTURE. THESE ARE MY SUGGESTIONS, GET THEM OFF THE AVENUE. CHANGE THE ORDINANCE TO REQUIRE A FLAT RATE. IT WOULD TAKE SOME INVESTIGATING WITH THE STAFF, MEETING WITH THE PROVIDERS TO SEE WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DO MAKE SOMEHOW TO FIGURE IT OUT SO WE CAN GET AN ACCURATE REAL DATA, [01:40:03] CHARGE PER YEAR FOR OPERATION, LOWER THE MAXIMUM ATTENTION AND CREATE RESTRICTIONS FOR TYPICAL HOT PORTIONS OF THE HOTTEST DAY, AND MODIFY THE HORSE SCHEDULES. THOSE ARE MY SUGGESTIONS. BY TAKING THE MONEY FROM THE PARKING LOT AND INCREASING THE FEES, WE CAN PAY FOR SUPERVISION. WE CAN ADD ONE CODE ENFORCEMENT OFFICER WITH THAT MONEY WITH 50% DUTIES BEING TO SUPERVISE THE FRANCHISES, NOT JUST THE HORSES. ADD HEFTY FINES FOR ANY VIOLATIONS RELATED TO THE HORSE CARE OF ABUSE OR OF HEALTH AND SAFETY, INCLUDING THE BARN. PERSONALLY, I THINK WE OUGHT TO CLOSE THAT BARN. THE RESULTS ARE SAFER FOR THE HORSES THAN DRIVER. IT MEETS THE NEEDS OF OUR PROTESTERS, TO SOME DEGREE. FRANCHISE FEES ARE MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF CURRENT ORDINATES AND THAT'S IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> THANK YOU. THAT WAS DEFINITELY NOT 10 MINUTES. WHO WOULD LIKE TO GO NEXT? [LAUGHTER] >> THAT. FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU. THAT WAS VERY INFORMATIVE AND VERY LOGICAL AND MATHEMATICAL. SO THAT VERY MUCH APPEARS TO ME. IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU WERE A TEACHER OR SOMETIMES. WELL, A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT COMMISSIONER SPRINGFIELD JUST SAID IS STUFF THAT I HAD WRITTEN DOWN, I THINK THIS IS A GOOD TIME TO DISCUSS THIS. I THINK THE CONVERSATION HAS BECOME UNNECESSARILY PERSONAL. AND THAT BOTHERS ME. SO I THINK THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS A GOOD REASON TO MOVE UP. I WAS JUST GOING TO FOLLOW UP ON A COUPLE OF THINGS JUST SAID, I HAD JUST WRITTEN DOWN A LOT LESS THAN YOU DID. AND THAT WAS UPDATING EXISTING FACILITIES. I THINK THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT. I THINK THE MAYOR TALKED ABOUT THAT. TEMPERATURE. I HAD WRITTEN DOWN LOWERING THE TEMPERATURE AND MAYBE LIMITING IT TO CERTAIN TIMES A DAY. I HAD THOUGHT ABOUT MAYBE TURNING THEM AROUND ON THE BAYFRONT AND RUNNING THEM SOUTH ALONG AVENUE, MENENDEZ, BUT THAT'S A GOOD DISCUSSION POINT THAT ROUTE, BECAUSE A BAYFRONT I'M VERY CONCERNED WHEN THE SEAWALL IS BEING CONSTRUCTED, TO HAVE THE HORSES ON THERE, HAVE THE PARKING ON THERE, HAVE THE EQUIPMENT ON THERE. SO I HAD OUGHT MAYBE ABOUT FLIPPING IT TO YELLOW SIDE OF STREET, BUT I AM OPEN TO A HEALTHY DISCUSSION ABOUT REMOVING THEM FROM THE BAY FRONT. MY CONCERN IS WITH THAT IS JUST A MOBILITY CONCERN. I UNDERSTAND THE BUSINESSES ARE IMPORTANT. I KNOW THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BE A SACRIFICE FOR THEM, BUT I LOOK AT IT LIKE A MOBILITY ISSUE, AND THE REASON I THOUGHT OF IT GOING SOUTH IS BECAUSE EFFECTIVELY, THERE'S ALMOST THREE LANES THERE ONCE YOU GET IN THE LEFT TURN LANE, I DO THIS A LOT. THERE'S TWO LANES GOING NORTH AND THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE BRIDGE, WHEN YOU GET OFF IF YOU'RE COMING OFF THE ISLAND, THEN YOU WANT TO GO NORTH, WHICH FROM MY GUESS IS ABOUT 80% OF THE PEOPLE AT LEAST, IT GETS BOTTLED UP, IT BOTTLES UP THE BRIDGE. I UNDERSTAND THE HORSE CARRIAGE BUSINESS, AND I UNDERSTAND THEIR CONCERNS AS A BUSINESS PERSON, BUT FOR ME, MOBILITY ON THAT BAY FRONT IS A HIGHER PRIORITY. HOPEFULLY WE CAN FIND ANOTHER ROUTE FOR THEM, AND THEY COULD STILL BE SUCCESSFUL. THAT I AGREE WITH YOU ON. PASTURES. YOU STILL LIVE IN A HORSE COUNTRY FOR A WHILE. I DID A LOT OF SCIENCE FOR HORSE FARMS. I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT AN EXPERT, BUT ONE ACRE OF PASTURE LAND FOR A NUMBER OF HORSES CAN BE CHEWED UP PRETTY QUICKLY. THIS ISN'T REALLY PASTURE LAND COUNTRY. IT'S NOT REALLY IDEAL FOR GROWING GRASS, AND GRASS DOESN'T GET ROOTS, AND THINGS WALK YOU WALK ON IT, AND IT CRUSHES IT. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM, BUT SO ANYWAY, THOSE ARE GENERALLY MY COMMENTS, AND I THINK, AGAIN, THIS IS A VERY GOOD DISCUSSION. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THAT. I APPRECIATE IT. >> EXCELLENT. COMMISSIONER GARRIS. >> THANK YOU. I HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS. FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY THAT CAME OUT TONIGHT TO DISCUSS THE HORSES, BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S BEEN A PASSIONATE DISCUSSION QUITE FREQUENTLY LATELY. SO I'M GLAD WE WERE ABLE TO DO A PRESENTATION ON WHERE WE ARE WITH THE HORSES. THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT REALLY STOOD OUT GOING ALL THE DISCUSSIONS AND ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENTS. ONE, MY FAVORITE WAS SCOTT YORK THAT SHOWED THE ESSENCE OF THE HORSES. WHAT THEY BRING TO THE CITY AS A WHOLE, AND THESE HORSES HOW ARE PART OF THE FABRIC OF THE HISTORICAL CHARM THAT WE DO HAVE HERE AND SHOWING THEM AT NIGHT, GLOWING, BECAUSE I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST SEE THE HORSES [01:45:02] AS AND SOME GOT A NUISANCE WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO GET AROUND THEM. BUT OTHER THAN THAT, I DON'T SEE ANY LOCAL PEOPLE THAT LIVE DOWNTOWN THAT HAVE COME IN HERE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE HORSES. I THINK THAT THEY HAVE LEARNED TO LIVE WITH THE HORSES BEING A CHARM AND REGARDLESS OF THAT, THEY STILL APPRECIATE THEM BEING OUT THERE. THAT HAS TO COME FROM THE CARE THAT THEY ARE GETTING CARE BECAUSE THERE'S STILL A LOT OF HORSES AND CARRIAGES ON OUR STREETS, AT LEAST 14 FROM WHAT THE LICENSE. I APPRECIATE THE DOCTOR TAKING THE TIME TO COME HERE AND LET US KNOW ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT GOES INTO THE CARE OF THE HORSES, BECAUSE THAT'S IMPORTANT, AND THERE HAS BEEN STATED THAT THE DOCTORS ARE NOT CARING FOR THESE HORSES. SO THAT REBUTTALS THEM SAYING THAT THESE HORSES HAVEN'T GOTTEN ANY TREATMENT. MAYBE WE MIGHT HAVE DROPPED THE BALL AS FAR AS SEEING HAVING ALL THE RECORDS DONE. BUT I KNOW WE'RE WORKING ON FIXING THAT AND STAYING MORE IN COMPLIANCE WITH EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THE LICENSES OF THE HORSES. SO WITH EVERYBODY COMING IN, IT JUST BROUGHT A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF AWARENESS. WITH ANY COMPANY OR CORPORATION OR GOVERNMENT, SOME THINGS DON'T COME TO THE FOREFRONT BECAUSE YOU'RE DEALING WITH THINGS THAT ARE MORE RELEVANT. I WOULD TAKE IT AS THAT'S WHY THAT HAS OCCURRED. THERE WAS A YOUNG LADY THAT SPOKE, I BELIEVE HER NAME IS REBECCA. THAT IS AN EMPLOYEE, AND SHE CAME TO OUR COMMUNITY, AND SHE'S A CARRIAGE DRIVER. WHAT SHE SAID CONCERNS ME, BECAUSE EVERYBODY'S SO FIXATED ON THE HORSES. BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DRIVERS? WHAT ABOUT THE DRIVERS HAVING TO BE AT THE MERCY OF SOMEONE GIVING THEM WATER? SO I WOULD PUT THAT ON THE EMPLOYER TO PROVIDE SOME CANTEENS FOR THOSE PEOPLE BECAUSE NOT ONLY ARE THOSE HORSES OUT THERE ON THE BAY FRONT, SO ARE THOSE EMPLOYEES. THEY NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR SOME OF THAT, OR THEY NEED TO GET SOME THERMOCIS THAT CAN PROVIDE WATER THAT STAYS COLD BECAUSE IF THEY PASS OUT, THEN THE HORSES ARE EVEN MORE VULNERABLE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GETTING WHAT THEY NEED. AS FAR AS THE GREEN PASTURES, WITH THE AMOUNT OF RAIN THAT WE'RE GETTING, WE WERE LIKE, FLOODED. IT WAS A RIVER DOWN HERE LAST WEEK. THE HORSES ARE UNFORTUNATELY GOING TO BE IN MUD, ESPECIALLY FOR THE ONES THAT STAY ON THAT SITE. THE TRANSIT PLACE, THEY'RE GOING TO TAKE THEIR HORSES OFF, SO THEY'RE NOT STANDING OUT THERE. SO WE DO NEED TO BE MORE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE RENTED SPACE THAT WE ARE PROVIDING. SO THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. VICE MAYOR. >> I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO ANOTHER POWERPOINT[LAUGHTER] AND DIDN'T GET TO YOU KNOW HOW MANY POWERPOINTS I DO IN A WEEK? ANYWAY, I'M GLAD YOU DID, INSTEAD, COMMISSIONER SPRINGFIELD. I THINK MY COLLEAGUES HAVE A LOT OF GREAT IDEAS. I WOULD AGREE WITH ALL OF THEM, REALLY. I JUST WANTED TO GO THROUGH A COUPLE OF THINGS MYSELF. I DO WANT TO THANK THE ANIMAL WELFARE ADVOCATES FOR BRINGING THIS DISCUSSION TO US. I KNOW THEY'RE PASSIONATE. I KNOW CARE ABOUT THE WELFARE OF OTHER BEINGS AND THAT MATTERS. I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO HAVE THAT KINDNESS. I ALSO WANT TO THANK THE FRANCHISEES FOR BEING OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS AND FOR BEING RESPONSIVE TO STAFF IN PROVIDING INFORMATION. I FINALLY WANT TO THANK COY SACRID FOR HIS PRESENTATION AND THE WAY HE APPROACHED IT WITH REGARD TO THE DEFICIENCIES IN CORRECTIVE ACTIONS. I THINK THAT WAS VERY PRAGMATIC. GIVEN THAT HE HAS ADDRESSED THOSE PRAGMATIC ISSUES, I THINK WE HAVE A GOOD JUMPING OFF POINT FROM WHICH TO CIRCLE AROUND AND GET THESE IDEAS AND MOVE FORWARD WITH THEM. I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR MY OWN BACKGROUND, BUT I DO TEACH NOW GOING ON 20 YEARS ANIMAL BEHAVIOR AT A COLLEGE LEVEL, AND THAT INCLUDES WHAT WE CALL ENRICHMENT OF CAPTIVE AND DOMESTICATED ANIMALS. THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF WELL BEING FOR ANIMALS. WE TALK ABOUT ZOOS AND WE TALK ABOUT DOGS, AND WHETHER MY OWN DOG IS GETTING ENOUGH ENRICHMENT AT HOME, FOR EXAMPLE. IN THAT ALMOST 25 YEARS, I'VE LIVED HERE AND BEEN GOING DOWNTOWN ALMOST DAILY FOR WORK. I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF ABUSE OF ANY OF THESE ANIMALS. I AGREE THE ONE ACRE PARCEL IS SUBSTANDARD IN A LOT OF WAYS, BUT EVEN IN THAT, IN TERMS OF AESTHETICALLY IN PARTICULAR, [01:50:01] AND I DO WORRY ABOUT THOSE HORSES BEING KEPT THERE FULL TIME FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME. BUT THOSE HORSES, WHEN WE GO TO HAILING PARK, WALKING OUR DOG, THEY COME OUT. WE GIVE THEM AND THEY INTERACT WITH OUR DOG AND THE DOG INTERACTS, BUT EVERYBODY SEEMS HEALTHY AND HAPPY. SO JUST THAT AS A BACKGROUND. TWO OF THE BIGGEST THINGS, AND I'M GLAD COMMISSIONER SPRINGFIELD BROUGHT UP AVENUE TO MENENDEZ. I HAVE SAID THAT IN THE PAST, AS WELL. IT'S BEEN A COUPLE OF YEARS, BUT I AGREE WITH HIM, THE SAFETY ISSUES. I WATCH CARS SPEEDING AROUND, AND I JUST REALLY, REALLY WORRY ABOUT BOTH THE HUMAN OCCUPANTS IN THESE CARRIAGES AND THE CONFLICT OF SLOW MOVING VEHICLES. THAT WOULD INCLUDE BICYCLE AS WELL, BUT THERE'S PEOPLE AND AN ANIMAL THAT'S WORKING. I REALLY WORRY ABOUT THEIR SAFETY. I AGREE WITH COMMISSIONER DE PRITER THAT MOBILITY IS IMPACTED AS WELL. I'M IN FAVOR OF US GETTING THE HORSE CARRIAGES OFF OF AVENTA MENENDEZ. I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. THE BIGGER ISSUE NOT BIGGER, BUT A VERY BIG ISSUE FOR ME TOO, WHICH, OF COURSE, COMMISSIONER SPRINGFIELD STOLE IS THE TEMPERATURE ISSUE. I HAD FUN WITH CHATGPT TODAY FOR ABOUT 15 MINUTES AND DID A PROMPT ABOUT LITERALLY ASKING IT TO SUMMARIZE WHAT SOME OF THE BOTH DAYTIME AND NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURE RESTRICTIONS ARE IN OTHER PLACES, IN OTHER CITIES. INTERESTINGLY, SEVILLA, SPAIN WAS THE FIRST ONE THAT POPPED UP WITH THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE AND FORWARD THINKING POLICIES. I'M GOING TO JUST SUMMARIZE A COUPLE OF THEM. I THINK THE TEMPERATURE REDUCTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN THROWN AROUND THE TABLE HERE. SEVILLA, DUE TO ITS HOT CLIMATE, I'M QUOTING HERE, "THE CITY HAS BANNED CARRIAGE RIDES FOR TOURISTS WHEN TEMPERATURES EXCEED 95 DEGREES DURING THE DAY." NOW THAT'S WHAT WE'RE AT. BUT I THINK WE CAN GO LOWER. 2011 IS A LONG TIME BEFORE WE WERE FACING THE CONDITIONS THAT WE'RE FACING NOW. THAT CUTTING OFF OF CERTAIN MONTHS MIGHT VERY WELL BE A GOOD IDEA, ESPECIALLY DURING THOSE TIMES OF THE DAY. BUT INTERESTINGLY, AND THIS IS WHERE I'VE BEEN GOING WITH THIS, IF MY AIR CONDITIONING BREAKS DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER, AND IT'S 80 DEGREES AT NIGHT, I AM NOT IN A GOOD POSITION IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM TO DO ANY WORK THE NEXT DAY. THAT'S HOW I THINK ABOUT THE INCREASING NIGHTTIME AVERAGE TEMPERATURES AND THE RECOVERY OF THE HORSES. WHAT SEVILLA DOES IS THAT IF THE NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES REMAIN HIGH, AT 77 DEGREES OR ABOVE THAT ALTERS THE DECISION MAKING ABOUT THE CARRIAGES GOING THE NEXT DAY. I THINK WE COULD IMPLEMENT SOMETHING THAT WOULD MIMIC THAT OR AT LEAST ADDRESS THAT. THERE ARE OTHER CITIES, CAIRO, EGYPT DOES A SIMILAR THING, ESPECIALLY AT AVOIDING MIDDAY HEAT AND NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURE CONSIDERATIONS. NEW YORK CITY'S LOOKING INTO THE NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURE CONSIDERATIONS, DUBAI AND THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES HAS A SIMILAR SITUATION IN TERMS OF NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES, AND AS DOES LISBON, PORTUGAL, AND SANTORINI, GREECE. WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF EXAMPLES IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT WE DO SEE THEM IN OTHER COUNTRIES, AND I THINK WE HAVE SOME GOOD MODELS TO WORK FROM, SO WE DON'T HAVE TO START FROM SCRATCH. I PERSONALLY, IN WRAPPING THIS UP, AM NOT INCLINED TO CLOSE DOWN OUR CARRIAGE FRANCHISES FOR MANY OF THE SAME REASONS THAT AT LEAST SEVERAL OF OUR SPEAKERS HAVE SPOKEN OF, AND SEVERAL OF MY COLLEAGUES, IF NOT ALL OF US HAVE SPOKEN OF. ALTHOUGH COMMISSIONER GARRIS SHE'S WITH THE ROOM. SHE HAS POINTED OUT THAT THIS HAS BEEN A FOCUS, AND MAYOR SIKES KLINE HAS ALSO SAID THIS ISSUE KEEPS RECURRING. I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE A DECISIVE STATEMENT PROBABLY TONIGHT ABOUT WHETHER WE ARE ACTUALLY ENTERTAINING THE IDEA OF DISCUSSING WHETHER OR NOT TO HAVE CARRIAGE FRANCHISES. I WOULD PUT THAT OUT THERE AS A CLOSING WRAP UP. >> I HAVE TO AGREE. I THINK WE SHOULD BRACKET THAT AND JUST MAKE THAT STATEMENT CLEAR AND THERE'S NOT AN INTEREST IN ELIMINATING THE INDUSTRY OR CURTAILING THE INDUSTRY, IN ANY WAY, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS MAKE IT A BETTER INDUSTRY MOVING FORWARD. IN A LOT OF WAYS THAT HAVE BEEN DESCRIBED TONIGHT. >> I AGREE. I THINK IF WE MAKE SOME DECENT CHANGES, [01:55:01] AND WE WERE ABLE TO SUPERVISE IT WELL. THE CITY MANAGER HAS SAID SEVERAL TIMES, EVERY TIME WE MAKE A NEW ORDINANCE, SOMEBODY HAS TO MANAGE IT, AND WE KEEP DUMPING THINGS ON STAFF, THEY TOSS THE HORSES AROUND SEVERAL DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS OVER TIME. WE NEED TO FIX THAT. WE NEED TO FIND SOMEBODY THAT'S GOING TO DO IT, AND WE NEED TO HIRE A PROFESSIONAL PERSON THAT IS FAMILIAR WITH HORSES AND TRANSPORTATION IN GENERAL FOR ALL THE FRANCHISES. >> WELL, THE THREE THINGS THAT I WALK AWAY GENERALLY IS THE BUDGET, I THINK IS A REALLY GOOD WAY TO DO IT, BECAUSE IF YOU PASS A LAW, YOU DON'T ENFORCE IT IT'S NOT REALLY DOING ANYBODY ANY GOOD. THE BUDGET WOULD BE FOR THE COMPLIANCE, AND THAT THE EMPHASIS WOULD BE ON SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO AVENUE TO MENENDEZ ON MOBILITY GOALS AND LOOKING AT THE HORSE CARRIAGES AS PART OF A BIGGER MOBILITY PICTURE, ALONG WITH OUR OTHER OPTIONS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO WORK ON. THOSE ARE THE THREE BASIC CATEGORIES FOR ME. >> I TRIED TO WRITE DOWN SOME THEMES, COMMON THEMES THAT I HEARD BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OUT THERE RIGHT NOW. I SAW CONCERN OVER THE ACTUAL FACILITY. I SAW CONCERN OVER THAT SEEMED TO GO THROUGH EVERYONE'S COMMENTS, THE TEMPERATURES BEING LOWERED, AND I THINK THAT MAYBE MOVING FORWARD, MY CONCERN IS GIVING STAFF INDICATION OF WHAT WE HAVE CONSENSUS ON. THAT WOULD BE ONE, WE'RE INTERESTED IN NOT CURTAILING THE INDUSTRY. I WANTED TO CATCH YOU UP ON THAT. ONE, TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE FACILITIES AND GIVE US SOME RECOMMENDATIONS ON WHAT WE CAN DO TO IMPROVE THOSE FACILITIES, AND SPECIFICALLY NOT THE TRANSPORTATION, BUT THE ACTUAL PADDOCK AREA, THE ONE ACRE AREA. THE TEMPERATURES, WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT LOWERED AND THAT ADDRESSED. ROUTE CHANGES. >> INCLUDING NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES TOO. >> THAT SHOULD BE PART OF THE SURVEY. I AGREE. JUST THE WHOLE COMPREHENSIVE IDEA. THAT ALSO WOULD MAYBE LOOK INTO THESE HOURS OF OPERATION THAT YOU BROUGHT UP. HOW DOES THAT LOOK? >> THE DATES[OVERLAPPING]. >> THE DATES OF OPERATION, THE SHIFTS, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, THE TIME FRAMES. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THAT. I DON'T THINK THE INDUSTRY PROBABLY WILL HAVE SOME FEEDBACK ON THAT ON WHAT THEY'RE DOING. THEN THE ROUTE CHANGE DEFINITELY I HAVE TO AGREE WITH THE IDEA THAT THE ROUTE CHANGE SHOULD BE PERMANENT. WE DID TRY TO CHANGE THE ROUTE YEARS AGO WHEN THE PARKING GARAGE WAS CONSTRUCTED, AND IT JUST WASN'T WORKABLE. I THINK THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THAT ROUTE CHANGE, IF ANYTHING, FOR JUST SAFETY REASONS, GETTING THE CARRIAGES OUT INTO A FOUR LANE HIGHWAY WITH A DIVIDED MEDIAN AT THAT SPEED. THE OTHER THING IS, I DID HEAR PASTURE TIME, WANTING TO ADDRESS THE PASTURE TIME, OR MAYBE THAT'S JUST ME. >> THE RATES. >> YOU HAD SAID SOMETHING ABOUT FLAT RATE FOR PERMIT. >> INSTEAD OF HAVING TO BE A $1,000 MINIMUM AND THEN BASED ON THEIR INCOME, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE OUGHT TO BE LOOKING AT THEIR IRS STATEMENTS. THAT WE OUGHT TO COME UP WITH SOME FLAT RATE THAT'S FAIR. $1,000 IS IN MY CALCULATIONS IS NOT APPROPRIATE. IT NEEDS TO BE MUCH HIGHER THAN. >> YEAH, WE CAN HEAR FROM THE INDUSTRY ON THAT. >>THE $1,000 DOESN'T COVER THE COST OF ENFORCEMENT. EXACTLY, THE BUDGET THING YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT. >> DOES THAT HELP YOU, MR. CITY MANAGER? >> IT DOES, INDEED. I'VE MADE A LIST. WE'LL GO BACK AND WATCH THIS WITH MY SENIOR STAFF, AND WE'LL JUST TAKE IT ONE STEP AT A TIME, ADDRESS ALL THESE ITEMS AND BRING THEM BACK TO YOU. >> EXCELLENT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE VERY MUCH APPRECIATE, MR. SACRED, YOUR REPORT OUT. OF COURSE, WE'RE GRATEFUL THAT WE'VE HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION. >> MADAM MAYOR, HAVE WE MADE A CLEAR ENOUGH STATEMENT, DO YOU THINK ABOUT WHERE WE ARE WITH REGARD TO THE FRANCHISES AND WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE RECONSIDERING. >> THAT'S PRETTY CLEAR. IT'S PRETTY CLEAR TO YOU, ISN'T IT, THAT WE'RE ALL INTERESTED IN MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS INDUSTRY HAND IN HAND, [02:00:02] MAKING IT BETTER. THANK YOU. >> YES. THERE'S A CONSENSUS THAT THERE ARE IMPROVEMENTS THAT NEED TO BE MADE, PHYSICAL IMPROVEMENTS, PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS, FINANCE IMPROVEMENTS, BUT THE INDUSTRY IS INTACT. >> THANK YOU. >> YES. THANK YOU. WONDERFUL. MOVING ON. THE NEXT ITEM IS 10B LICENSE AGREEMENT TO USE FLAGLER COLLEGE'S PARKING GARAGE DURING A PORTION OF NIGHTS OF LIGHTS. THAT'S MR. FRANKLIN. THIS IS A PRESENTATION. THIS IS A PRESENTATION. IT IS NOT REQUIRE A VOTE. >> YES. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR. COMMISSIONERS. THIS EVENING, WE HAVE THE AGREEMENT TO USE THE FLAGLER COLLEGE PING GAGE FOR NIGHTS OF LIGHTS, AND ALSO ON 4TH JULY. IT'S A THREE YEAR AGREEMENT. THERE IS A COST SHARE REVENUE. A MINIMUM OF $1,000 OR 20% OF THE REVENUE THAT WE GENERATE. THE PLAN IS TO SELL PARKING PERMIT PASSES AT $50 A PIECE, UP TO 250 OF THEM. WE'LL JUST SELL ONE PASS FOR ONE SPACE, SO IT WON'T BE A HUNTING LOT. IF YOU BUY YOUR PASS, YOU'RE GOING TO GET A PARKING SPACE. THAT WILL BE IN EFFECT FROM DECEMBER 13TH THROUGH JANUARY 4TH, WHICH IS WHEN FLAGLER'S ON WINTER BREAK. WE SET THE $50 RATE THAT COVERS THE SECURITY THAT'S REQUIRED FOR US TO PROVIDE DURING THAT TIME, AND THEN THE 20% REVENUE SHARE. IT WOULD BE ABOUT $12,500 IS WHAT WE'D TAKE IN. 10,000 OF THAT WOULD BE FOR SECURITY, AND THEN 2,500 WOULD GO BACK TO FLAGLER COLLEGE. >> GREAT. MR. SPRINGFIELD. >> THE SECURITY, IS THAT BEING PROVIDED BY FLAGLER COLLEGE? >> NO, WE'LL BE PROVIDING IT WITH OUR GIDDENS SECURITY. THEY DO SECURITY IN THE EXISTING PARKING GARAGE, SO WE'LL HAVE THAT VIA ASSIGNED LOCATION. >> BECAUSE FLAGLER COLLEGE DOES PROVIDE SECURITY FOR THAT GARAGE CURRENTLY, BUT MAYBE THEY DON'T DURING THE WINTER BREAK. I'M NOT SURE. ANYWAY. THANK YOU. >> COMMISSIONER GARRIS, ANY QUESTIONS? >> NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY QUESTIONS. THANKS. >> GREAT. ANY QUESTIONS? IT SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT PLAN. I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT. FOR SO MANY YEARS, WE'VE BEEN HEARING THAT THE EMPLOYEES WANT A PLACE TO PARK, AND THEY WANT THIS AND THEY WANT US TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT YOU PUT INTO THAT. MY ONLY QUESTION IS, IS WHEN YOU SAID THIS, IT'S NOT A HUNTING PASS, IT'S A DESIGNATED SPACE. IS IT ASSIGNED SPACE, OR IS IT JUST GOING TO BE YOU'LL ONLY SELL THAT MANY PERMITS? >> WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH FLAGLER COLLEGE, BUT WE'LL PROBABLY LIMIT IT BECAUSE THEY WILL HAVE PEOPLE IN THE PARKING GARAGE, TOO. WE'LL PROBABLY ISOLATE IT BY FLOOR. WE WON'T PUT ACTUAL SPOTS 1, 02, 3, 4, 5, BUT WE'LL HAVE THESE TWO FLOORS IN THAT WE'LL ONLY SELL THE NUMBER OF PERMIT PER SPACE ON THE FLOOR. >> THAT'S BETTER THAN WHAT WE DO IN OUR MUNICIPAL GARAGE. IT'S ACTUALLY A BIG LEAP, WHICH IS NICE. THEY GET THAT THEY'RE GUARANTEED THAT SPOT SO THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? GREAT. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> MOVING ON. ITEMS BY CITY ATTORNEY. WE HAVE NO ITEMS. ITEMS BY CITY CLERK. [12. ITEMS BY CITY CLERK] W>> E NEED TO OIL THIS MICROPHONE. I DO HAVE ONE ITEM THIS EVENING, MADAM MAYOR, MADAM VICE MAYOR, AND COMMISSIONERS. I HAVE A REQUEST FOR ONE APPOINTMENT TO OUR PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD. WE HAVE ACTUALLY TWO SEATS STILL LEFT TO BE FILLED. WE'VE BEEN ADVERTISING. WE DID RECEIVE ONE APPLICATION, WHICH I PROVIDED TO YOU FOR CONSIDERATION FROM MS. JANE KELLY, WHO, I BELIEVE, MEETS THE CRITERIA TO SERVE. >> THANK YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT THE CHAIR OF PLANNING AND ZONING WROTE ME AN EMAIL. I ASSUME THAT SHE WROTE EVERYONE, REQUESTING US TO RE-ADVERTISE, GIVE IT A BIT LONGER. ARE YOU ON ANY TIME CRUNCH THERE? >> NO, BECAUSE WE DO STILL HAVE TWO SEATS OPEN. [02:05:04] I FULLY INTEND TO LEAVE THE APPLICATION PROCESS OPEN FOR MORE, SO HOPEFULLY WE ENCOURAGE MORE PEOPLE TO APPLY. >> AND RE-ADVERTISE? >> YES, WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT. >> CONTINUE. >> I JUST WANT TO SUPPORT ADVERTISING FOR LONGER [INAUDIBLE]. >> MORE ADVERTISING. >> I GOT THE SAME EMAIL FROM MS. TUCKER. I SERVE WITH HER. SHE'S PRETTY CREDIBLE. I THINK THAT'S A GOOD SUGGESTION. BEFORE WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS, I TALKED ABOUT DIVERSITY. IF WE HAVE TWO SEATS OF ONE PERSON, I'D LIKE TO HAVE THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE IN TWO SEATS. I WOULD SUPPORT THAT. >> WONDERFUL. ANY OTHER COMMENTS? >> JUST A QUICK ONE. I WANTED TO THANK MS. KELLY FOR APPLYING. I HOPE SHE'LL STICK WITH THE PROCESS UNTIL WE GET A FEW MORE APPLICATIONS TO REVIEW. >> EXCELLENT. YOU HAVE OUR DIRECTION AT THAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. >> YES, MA'AM. >> ITEMS BY CITY MANAGER. [13. ITEMS BY CITY MANAGER] >> WELL, IT'S BEEN BROUGHT UP TONIGHT, BUT I'LL JUST REITERATE IT. WE DID HAVE A FLOODING AND STORM EVENT LAST FRIDAY AND SATURDAY. WE SAW WIDESPREAD FLOODING DOWNTOWN IN THE LINCOLNVILLE NEIGHBORHOOD, IN THE SOUTH DAVIS SHORES NEIGHBORHOOD. WE ALSO SAW FLOODING IN THE FULLERWOOD AND PARK TERRACE DRIVE AREA. I'M SORRY, THE NELMAR TERRACE AREA, AND OTHER AREAS AS WELL. OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT WAS BUSY RESPONDING TO SERVICE CALLS. OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS BUSY RESPONDING TO SERVICE CALLS AND OPENING AND CLOSING ROADS. WE DID CLOSE THE BRIDGE OF LIONS ON FRIDAY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. SATURDAY, WE WERE SURPRISED BY THE LEVEL OF FLOODING THAT WE SAW. WE SAW THE TIDE ACTION OVER TOP THE SEA WALL DOWNTOWN, WHICH WAS A SURPRISE TO US. OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT AND POLICE DEPARTMENT AND UTILITIES DEPARTMENT WORKED VERY, VERY HARD ON FRIDAY AND SATURDAY WITH SERVICE CALLS. I WOULD LIKE TO PUBLICLY THANK THEM FOR THEIR HARD WORK AND DEDICATION AND JUST MAKE THE COMMUNITY AWARE THAT YOU HAVE A TREMENDOUS TEAM OF FIRST RESPONDERS AND UTILITY WORKERS WHO QUITE LITERALLY RISK THEIR LIVES IN THESE STORM EVENTS. I JUST WANTED TO PUBLICLY THANK THEM FOR THAT. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP. DO WE KNOW HOW MANY HOMES WERE FLOODED YET? >> WE DO NOT KNOW YET. THAT CAME UP THIS MORNING IN OUR SENIOR STAFF DISCUSSIONS. THAT NUMBER IS GENERALLY COMPILED BY OUR PLANNING AND BUILDING DEPARTMENT. THAT'S WHEN THE POST-STORM DAMAGE ASSESSMENTS DONE THROUGH PLANNING AND BUILDING. WE SHOULD HAVE A CLEAR PICTURE OF THAT SHORTLY. >> GREAT. I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IT HERE AN UPDATE ON THAT WHEN WE HAVE THE DATA ON HOW MANY I SUSPECT IT'S GOING TO BE THE SAME HOMES THAT WE SEE REGULARLY. THANK YOU. COMMISSIONERS, ANY QUESTIONS OF CITY MANAGER? BEFORE WE GO ON TO COMMENTS. >> I'M SORRY, MAYOR. >> BEFORE WE GO ON TO COMMENTS, YES, ABOUT HIS REPORT. >> CORRECT. I KNEW WE HAD A COUPLE MANLIFT STATIONS. ANY INFORMATION ON THAT. >> WE HAD A LIFT STATION NUMBER 50, WHICH IS A NORTH DAVIS SHORES, HAD A MINOR SEWER SPILL. >> I WENT BY THERE ON MY BIKE, I SAW. >> LIFT STATION 11, WHICH IS ON RIBERIA AND SOUTH STREET, RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM MY HOUSE. HAD A LARGE SEWER SPILL. IT WAS RESPONDED TO IMMEDIATELY BY OUR UTILITIES FOLKS AND CONTAINED, AND THEY ARE WORKING ON SOLVING THAT PROBLEM RIGHT NOW, IN FACT. >> WAS THAT DUE TO OLDER INFRASTRUCTURE OR IS THAT JUST THE CONDITIONS. >> IT LOOKED LIKE A FORCE MAIN BREAK, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT I HAVE NOT GOTTEN UPDATED ABOUT SPECIFIC. >> WHEN YOU DO, JUST EVEN IF IT'S JUST WITH ME, I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THAT WAS. >> CERTAINLY. >> THANK YOU. >> GREAT. >> ACTUALLY, I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THAT INFORMATION, TOO, BECAUSE WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO ENSURE THAT OUR NEWER INFRASTRUCTURE IS DOING THE JOB IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO, AND IF IT'S NOT, THEN WE NEED TO FIX IT. YEAH, GET SOMETHING ON IT. >> KIND OF A STRESS TEST. I WOULD LIKE TO JUST KNOW THAT. >> WE'RE ON TO HONORS BY MAYORS AND COMMISSIONERS. [14. ITEMS BY MAYOR AND COMMISSIONERS] I HAVE QUITE A FEW, [02:10:02] BUT WE'LL SEE IF OTHERS ARE BRINGING THESE UP. I'LL LET Y'ALL BRING THEM UP. I'M SURE WE ALL PROBABLY THINK ALIKE. SO LET'S START WITH COMMISSIONER GARRIS. WE'LL GO FROM HERE. >> THANK YOU. I HAVE A FEW ALSO. I'M GOING TO FIRST GO WITH THERE WAS A LOT OF VIDEO FOOTAGE OF THE FLOODING WITH THE TROLLEYS GOING THROUGH, CREATING A WAVE IN LINCOLNVILLE. WHEN WE KNOW THAT THERE'S HIGH TIDES, WE NEED TO REACH OUT TO THE TROLLEY PEOPLE AND PREVENT THEM FROM GOING THROUGH LINCOLNVILLE BECAUSE THEY CREATED A WAVE, AND I KNOW SOME PEOPLE MIGHT STILL WANT TO GO TO THE MUSEUM, BUT I THINK THAT THEY COULD ANNOUNCE DUE TO THE FLOODING THAT THEY HAVE TO GO BACK TO THEIR REGULAR ROUTE, JUST TO PROTECT THOSE HOMES. ALSO, THE WATER LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE, LIKE, TRYING TO NOT GET WET WHEN THEY WERE ON THE TROLLEYS. IT WAS VISUAL THAT THEY HAD IT, AND THEN THERE WERE SOME EMAILS THAT I KNOW I RECEIVED ABOUT THE TROLLEYS GOING THROUGH. WE CAN JUST BE PROACTIVE WITH THAT WHEN WE HEAR ABOUT HIGH TIDES IN THE FUTURE. THE OTHER THING THAT I WANT TO BRING UP IS MR. HARDY, THAT CAME IN TODAY TO ASK FOR HIS FENCE TO BE RECONSIDERED. SINCE OUR LAST MEETING, MR. HARDY REACHED OUT TO ME AND HE ASKED ME TO TAKE A MEETING. WITH THE CITY MANAGER, I TOLD HIM OF THE MEETING THAT HE HAD REQUESTED, AND WE BOTH WENT TOGETHER TO HIS PROPERTY. I'M ASKING MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS TO CONSIDER HAVING ANOTHER MEETING IN REGARDS TO THAT IN THE FUTURE. I'LL TELL YOU WHY. I DO HAVE SOME PICTURES, MARIN, IF YOU CAN PUT THEM UP ON THE SCREEN. I WENT TO HIS HOUSE AND I TOOK THESE PICTURES. HE HAS A LOT OF PALM TREES. IF HE MOVES THAT FENCE BACK, HE'D HAVE TO TAKE DOWN THOSE TREES. HE EXPLAINED WHY HE HAD THE FENCE PUT UP. HE HAD THE FENCE PUT UP BECAUSE HE HAS A POOL ON HIS PROPERTY AND IT'S REQUIRED TO HAVE A POOL TO PREVENT ANYBODY FROM ACCESSING THAT POOL FROM THE STREET. IN ADDITION TO THAT, HE PROVIDED PERMITS FOR EVERYTHING THAT HE DID. HE ALSO PROVIDED THE DAVIS SHORE PLATE SHOWING THAT THAT PARTICULAR PROPERTY CURVES IN. IT'S NOT STRAIGHT LIKE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET. WHILE I WAS THERE, THE GENTLEMAN ACROSS THE STREET CAME OVER, AND HE TOLD ME THAT HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THAT FENCE. HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE TREES OR THE IVORY HE HAS OUT. HIS ONLY CONCERN IS IS THAT HE HAS SOME LIGHTS UP IN THE PALM TREES, AND THEY GO BECAUSE HIS HOUSE IS ONE STORY, THAT THEY BEAM DOWN INTO HIS HOUSE. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I'M SURE MR. HARDY WOULD ACCOMMODATE, OR HE COULD PUT THOSE SHADES UP TO PREVENT LIGHTS FROM GOING INTO HIS HOUSE. ALSO, DURING THAT CONVERSATION, HE TALKED ABOUT THE BULKHEAD AND HOW HE'S BEEN WORKING WITH PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT HE WOULD GIVE THEM THE RIGHT AWAY. HE WILL REMOVE THE FENCE IF THEY HAVE TO GO OUT THERE TO DO THE BULKHEAD, AND ALL THOSE THINGS OF THAT NATURE. LOOKING AT THE WHOLE COMPLAINT IN ITSELF, THERE IS ONLY ONE PERSON THAT FILED THE COMPLAINT, A NEIGHBOR DOWN THE STREET. MR. I THINK HIS NAME IS STILBECK. I'VE GOTTEN NUMEROUS PHONE CALLS FROM HIM, AND HE'S COMPLAINED ABOUT STAFF, AND HE'S BASICALLY WENT INTO SOMEWHAT OF A RANT. I'M SURE ALL OF YOU GOT THE EMAIL BECAUSE I LOOKED TO SEE WHO WAS COPIED IN IT. BUT IT'S NOT A PETITION FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD WITH THIS CONCERN. IT'S LIKE ANOTHER SCENARIO OF ONE NEIGHBOR NOT LIKING WHAT SOME OTHER NEIGHBOR IS DOING. WHEN I RODE PAST HIS HOUSE, HE HAD ALL KIND OF STUFF ON HIS RIGHT AWAY. HUGE PLANTS AND STUFF. IT'S LIKE, REALLY? WITH THAT BEING SAID, I WOULD JUST LIKE THAT WE CAN DO A PUBLIC HEARING, AND THEN WE CAN GET FEEDBACK FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD. BECAUSE AFTER I THOUGHT ABOUT MY VOTE, IT'S IN ITSELF, I THOUGHT IT WAS ON THE CASSIN AGENDA, SO I DIDN'T REALLY PAY IT ANY MIND, AND THAT'S MY NEGLIGENCE, BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE WENT OUT THERE LIKE JOHN DID AND SEEN THE PROPERTY JUST TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON. TO KNOW HOW THE FENCE WAS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. IT'S A WHOLE LOT MORE TO IT THAN JUST MOVING THE FENCE AS FAR AS THAT'S WHY I TOOK THE PICTURE SO YOU CAN JUST GET AN IDEA IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE PROPERTY. [02:15:02] LIKE I SAID, HE SAID HE WILL TAKE THE FENCE DOWN ANYTIME THE CITY NEEDS TO GET ON THAT RIGHT AWAY. WHAT MORE CAN YOU ASK FOR? THANK YOU. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS WANT TO CONSIDER THAT OR NOT. BUT ALSO, I MENTIONED ABOUT THE TROLLEYS AND ABOUT THE WAVE. >> JUST A LITTLE TINY REFRESHER ON ROBERT'S RULES. NOW, WE DO USE A SOFT ROBERT'S RULES BECAUSE OUR FUNCTIONS ARE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THAT TREATISE WAS WRITTEN FOR. WE'RE NOT THAT KIND OF ASSEMBLY. BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, OUR RESOLUTION SAYS WE'LL TRY AND FOLLOW THAT FORMAT AS MUCH AS WE CAN. UNDER ROBERT'S RULES, SOMEONE WHO'S ON THE WINNING SIDE OF EMOTION, SO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN ANYONE WHO VOTED TO NOT GRANT THE LICENSE AGREEMENT CAN BRING UP FOR RECONSIDERATION. YOU SHOULD HAVE A MOTION, A SECOND TO RECONSIDER, AND THEN A VOTE TO SEE IF A MAJORITY OF THE CITY COMMISSION WANTS TO RECONSIDER IT. I THINK THAT COMMISSIONER GARRIS SUGGESTION IS SOUND THAT IF THE BOARD OR IF THE COMMISSION WANTS TO RECONSIDER, YOU VOTE ON TONIGHT TO RECONSIDER, BUT NOT DO THE SUBSTANTIVE VOTE. SCHEDULE IT AT A FUTURE MEETING, SO INTERESTED FOLKS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CAN ATTEND. MR. HARDY CAN ATTEND, AND YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO OPENLY VOTE SUBSTANTIVELY ON THE SUBSTANCE OF THE RECONSIDERATION. TONIGHT WOULD BE JUST A PROCEDURAL MOTION. DO WE AGREE TO JUST REOPEN THIS? IT WOULDN'T MEAN THAT YOU NECESSARILY SUPPORT GRANTING THE LICENSE, JUST THAT YOU SUPPORT THE IDEA OF RECONSIDERING IT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? >> YEAH. IT DOES. I'LL JUST SAY, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, COMMISSIONER GARRIS, THIS IS MY NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN A BOILING CAN OF WORMS FOR A REALLY LONG TIME. MY NEIGHBORHOOD GETS REALLY JACKED UP ABOUT FENCES, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S IN THE PUBLIC RIGHT AWAY AND ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S ON THE WATERFRONT. THIS BY BRINGING THIS OUT AGAIN AND ASKING INVITING THE NEIGHBORS TO COME AND AIR THEIR DIVISIONS AND CONCERNS, PROBABLY NOT THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD TO DO. THE OLD SAYING, LET DEAD DOGS LAY MIGHT BE A GREAT ONE HERE. THIS COMMISSION DECIDED NOT TO GRANT THE LICENSING AGREEMENT FOR THE FENCE, AND I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF LEAVING IT ALONE JUST FOR THE SAKE OF THE PEACE OF MY NEIGHBORS. I DON'T THINK IT'S CORRECT TO CHARACTERIZE THAT IT'S ONE NEIGHBOR AGAINST ONE NEIGHBOR. IT IS NOT. IT IS NOT ONE NEIGHBOR AGAINST ONE NEIGHBOR. I HAVE SPOKEN TO NUMEROUS NEIGHBORS, AND IT IS, LIKE I SAID, JUST REALLY A BOILING ISSUE. IF YOU WANT TO AIR IT OUT, YOU WANT TO GO UP AND POP THAT BOIL, YOU CAN DO IT [LAUGHTER]. BUT I'M JUST SAYING I DON'T THINK IT'S A HEALTHY MOVE FOR US. I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S IT'S GOING TO SERVE ANY REAL PURPOSE. I THINK THAT MR. HARDY CAN MOVE THE FENCE WELL BACK TO PROTECT HIS POOL, AND HE CAN SAVE HIS LANDSCAPING. THERE'S PLENTY OF LAND BEHIND WHERE THE TREES ARE. HE CAN DO THAT VERY EASILY. HE'S A CONTRACTOR. HE CAN DO IT HIMSELF IN A HALF A DAY. THIS IS JUST VERY UNFORTUNATE. WELL, IN ALL FAIRNESS, MS. COMMISSIONER SPRINGFIELD WASN'T EVEN HERE TO VOTE EITHER WAY, SO I PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE JUST YIELD TO HE RETURNED. >> YEAH. >> I GOT A QUESTION BECAUSE THERE SEEMS TO BE MORE THAN JUST ONE CONCERN. THE FENCE IS A CONCERN. >> YEAH. >> THAT'S NOT THE MAJOR ISSUE, IS IT? >> THERE'S OTHER ISSUES. >> THERE'S MORE TO IT, NOT JUST THE FENCE. >> THERE'S A WHOLE LOT MORE TO IT, YEAH. >> DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION NOW? >> SOUNDS LIKE WE'VE GOT TO HAVE ONE. >> I'M NOT GOING TO SECOND THIS. I THINK IT'S PRETTY TOXIC, ESPECIALLY WHILE WE'RE CELEBRATING DAVID SHORES 100TH ANNIVERSARY. THE REASON I DIDN'T SUPPORT THE AGREEMENT THAT WAS PROPOSED IS BECAUSE OF THE PRECEDENT SETTING NATURE OF LEAVING A FENCE IN THE RIGHT OF WAY [02:20:04] AS OPPOSED TO LEAVING OTHER THINGS LIKE TREES AND SHRUBS AND SO FORTH. THAT'S WHY I VOTED AGAINST IT. I WON'T BE SECONDING THIS. WHAT I ASSUME IS YOUR MOTION BECAUSE OF THAT. THOSE TWO THINGS. >> YOUR ISSUE WAS THE FENCE, OKAY. >> PRIMARILY, BUT THE PRECEDENT SETTING NATURE OF THE FENCE IN THE RIGHT OF WAY. >> CORRECT. I'VE HEARD FROM OTHER NEIGHBORS THAT IT IS THE INCREASE IN SIZE OF HIS LOT. THAT IS THE BIGGEST CONCERN. >> THAT TOO. >> THAT WASN'T DISCUSSED AT THE MEETING LAST TIME? >> NO. >> WELL, I WATCHED, BUT I KNOW IT WASN'T [OVERLAPPING]. >> I WAS NOT. IT WAS NOT BROUGHT INTO THE BOIL. >> RIGHT. TO BE FAIR, I THINK I DID SUGGEST THAT WHERE THE GENTLEMAN SETS THE FENCE DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE LOT SIZE. BECAUSE BY SIGNING THE AGREEMENT, HE IS BASICALLY SAYING THE FENCE IS ON THE CITY PROPERTY. >> RIGHT. >> JUST BY NATURE OF SIGNING IT, HE'S ACKNOWLEDGING IT'S NOT ON HIS PROPERTY. HIS PROPERTY LINE WON'T CHANGE WITH THE FENCE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. >> RIGHT. >> NOW, MY UNDERSTANDING FROM THE CONVERSATION WAS THERE WERE REMARKS THAT WERE MADE THAT WE SAID IT WAS A VACANT LOT, SO IT'S NOT A VACANT LOT. THE LOT THE FENCE IS ON IS CONTIGUOUS TO THE LOT THAT THE HOUSE IS ON. I WENT TO THE ST. JOHN'S PROPERTY BEFORE I EVEN CAME TO THE MEETING LAST TIME. THERE'S A HOUSE, AND THEN THERE'S A SIDE YARD. >> UNDEVELOPED LOT. I HAVE ASKED STAFF TO DO SOME RESEARCH FOR ME BASED ON THAT QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THE LOT SIZE HAS BEEN INCREASING WITH EACH BULKHEAD CONSTRUCTION PROJECT THAT HAS BACK FILLED. IN EFFECT, I WANT TO KNOW EXACTLY WHETHER THAT LOT SIZE HAS BEEN INCREASED BY THOSE CONSTRUCTION [OVERLAPPING]. >> PERSONALLY, I THINK WE SHOULD JUST FORGET THE FENCE AND HAVE JUST A GENERAL REVIEW. I HAD A COUPLE OF EMAILS. I HAD ONE FROM THE GENTLEMAN YOU TALKED TO, AND I CALLED HIM AFTER THE VOTE TO EXPLAIN WHAT MY REASONING WAS. THEN THE NEIGHBOR ACROSS THE STREET WAS THE ONE I THINK YOU WERE REFERENCING, BUT I DON'T KNOW FOR A FACT. SENT ME AN EMAIL. I DON'T KNOW IF HE SENT IT TO EVERYBODY, BUT HE SENT IT TO ME, AND HE WAS SAYING THE FENCE WASN'T A CONCERN, HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THIS EXPANDING LOT. I THINK THE MORE PROPER WAY TO REVIEW THIS, DON'T GET HUNG UP ON THE FENCE RIGHT NOW IS TO ASSURE THE NEIGHBORS, I THINK THEY NEED A GOOD REVIEW, AND THIS IS WHAT THIS EMAIL SAID TO ME, AT LEAST. HE DIDN'T REALLY MIND THE FENCE, BUT HE WANTED A COMPLETE REVIEW OF THE PROPERTY IN TERMS OF IS IT GROWING OR NOT? MY QUICK ESTIMATION IS THAT'S AN UNDIVIDABLE LOT THAT HE HAS BECAUSE THE MAXIM IS 5,450 SQUARE FEET, OTHERWISE IT'S A NON CONFORMING LOT, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO SUBDIVIDE NON CONFORMING LOTS. IF YOU CONSIDER THE SETBACKS, REALLY, IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO BUILD ON. THE LOTS THAT ARE TO THE NORTH, TWO OF THEM ARE OWNED BY PRIVATE PEOPLE, AND THE THIRD IS THE CITY.. COINCIDENTALLY, I WAS GOING TO SAY THIS IN MY COMMENTS, I SAY, NOW, I WATCHED THE SEA WALL CONVERSATION FOR INLET SEA WALL, WHICH IS A VERY GOOD THING, AND I REALLY WANT TO TAKE TIME AND SHOUT OUT TO JESSICA AND STAFF FOR WORKING WITH THE NEIGHBORS THERE. THEY DID REALLY GOOD NEIGHBORHOOD OUTREACH. PEOPLE GOT DIFFERENT FEELINGS ABOUT A SEA WALL, HOW HIGH IT'S GOING TO BE. WHEN YOU SAY EIGHT FEET, THEY THINK IT'S EIGHT FEET, BUT IT'S ONLY GOING TO BE THREE FEET ABOVE. THE GRADES AT FIVE FEET. IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT THE MAP, THERE'S TWO PROPERTIES NORTH OF HERE AS FAR AS SETTING A PRECEDENT. MY UNDERSTANDING IS, THEY HAVE AGREED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE SEA WALL PROJECT. THEN FROM THERE NORTH UP TO WOLFGANG SHOWS PLACE, IT'S THE CITY PROPERTY. THE CITY IS OBVIOUSLY GIVING ITSELF PERMISSION TO BUILD THE SEAWALL. THE CONVERSATION THAT CAME UP THERE WAS, IS THERE GOING TO BE A FENCE ON TOP OF THE SEAWALL? MY UNDERSTANDING WAS THE CITY SAID THERE WOULD NOT BE A FENCE. THERE WAS A CONVERSATION ABOUT KAYAK AND PADDLE-BOARD ACCESS THAT WAS LEFT UNDETERMINED. I LOOK AT IT IN A BIGGER MORE COMPREHENSIVE CONVERSATION THAN THE FENCE. OBVIOUSLY, THE MAN CAN CHANGE THE FENCE AND YOU CAN MOVE IT IN WHAT THIS BOARD WANTS. BUT I THINK THE NEIGHBORS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS LOT EXPANDING, AND I DON'T THINK, BUT I NEED TO CONFIRM THIS IN PUBLIC WITH STAFF THAT THERE'S A WAY FOR THAT LOT TO GROW, CERTAINLY THE FENCE IS NOT GOING TO EXPAND IT BECAUSE IT'S JUST THE FENCE. I THINK IF THE RESIDENTS THERE WERE REASSURED THAT THIS IS NOT A DIVIDABLE LOT THAT SOMETHING'S GOING TO BE BUILT ON. THAT'S NUMBER 1. I THINK THAT'S THE NUMBER 1 CONCERN. THE SECOND THING I'M LOOKING AT IS YOU HAVE A SEA WALL, [02:25:03] AND YOU HAVE A 35 FOOT RIGHT AWAY THERE OR A 30 FOOT RIGHT AWAY. IF HE TAKES EVERYTHING OUT, IS THAT GOING TO BE A PARKING AREA FOR PEOPLE DOING THE KAYAKS AND CANOES AND STUFF, AND IS THAT WHAT WE WANT? I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE FENCE THING. OBVIOUSLY, I CAN'T WEIGH IN ON THAT BECAUSE I VOTED NEGATIVE, SO I DON'T HAVE A VOTE IN THIS. BUT I THINK THE MORE COMPREHENSIVE WAY TO LOOK AT THIS IS JUST TO LOOK AT IT, GET THE MAPS OUT, AND LOOK AT ALMOST EVERYTHING NORTH OF THERE, UNBILDABLE, BECAUSE THERE'S GOING TO BE A SEA WALL, AND I DON'T THINK THE CITY'S GOING TO ALLOW A LOT ON THE WATER A THE SIDE OF A SEAWALL. THAT WOULD BE MY $0.05. >> MY CONCERN IS THAT HE DID APPLY FOR PERMITS, AND THE CITY MADE ERRORS AND GAVE HIM PERMITS. WHERE IN THE FUTURE IS SOMEONE GOING TO MAKE AN ERROR AND GIVE HIM A BUILDING PERMIT? BUILD A HOUSE, AND THEN WE TELL HIM TO PAIR IT DOWN, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT. THAT'S WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT CODIFYING. IF WE HAVE TO TALK THIS UP AGAIN, AND WE START TALKING, THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO CODIFY AND MOVING THE FENCE IS PART OF THAT. THAT MAY HELP. NOW, I'D LIKE TO ASK THE MANAGER, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IF WE DROP IT TODAY? >> IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO RECONSIDER IT, IT WILL BE TURNED OVER TO CODE ENFORCEMENT. THERE'S ALREADY A CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE PENDING, AND WE WILL SCHEDULE HIM BEFORE THE SPECIAL MAGISTRATE TO REMOVE THE FENCE, TO REMOVE THE PALM TREES, TO REMOVE THE IRRIGATION, AND TO REMOVE THE ACCENT LIGHTING. HE HAS THE ABILITY TO [OVERLAPPING]. >> COME BACK. >> WRITE A LICENSE APPLICATION, BUT IT HAS TO BE SUBSTANTIALLY DIFFERENT. IF HE CAME BACK AND SAID, I'LL REMOVE THE FENCE, BUT I WANT TO KEEP THE PALM TREES AND THE IRRIGATION, YOU MAY WIND UP SEEING A MODIFIED REQUEST. BUT IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO RECONSIDER THIS, TOMORROW MORNING, I WILL TELL CODE ENFORCEMENT TO PROCEED. >> RIGHT. THE PENDING CODE ENFORCEMENT ACTION. >> THERE IS A PENDING CODE ENFORCEMENT. >> THAT'S WHY TOMORROW WE WOULD GO AHEAD. >> YES, MA'AM. >> I HAVE SUBMITTED AN E MAILED REQUEST TO STAFF TO RESEARCH THE SEA WALL AND BACKFILL ISSUE, AND JUST TO SEE WHAT THE HISTORY IS. WILL THAT COME BACK TO THIS BODY AS SOME AN UPDATE OR? >> CERTAINLY, WE COULD BRING THAT BACK TO YOU AS A STAFF REPORT. >> OKAY. >> THERE IS A LONG HISTORY TO THIS PROPERTY THAT GOES BACK TO EVEN PREVIOUS OWNERS. MR. HARDY THE CURRENT OWNER. >> I UNDERSTAND THAT, YEAH. BUT I THINK WE NEED SOME CLARITY ON WHAT THAT HISTORY IS. >> IT'D BE NICE TO KNOW, BUT IT'S ABOUT THE FENCE FOR ME RIGHT NOW. I DO. BUT I WOULD LOVE TO CONSIDER THAT SEPARATELY. IT'S JUST GETTING ALL TANGLED UP. >> THAT'S WHAT I MEANT TO CONSIDER IT SEPARATELY. THAT'S THE MAIN FEAR, I THINK, IS THAT HE'S GOING TO TRY TO CRAM ANOTHER LOT IN THERE. THAT'S AT THE HEART OF IT. >> THERE'S OTHER THINGS GOING ON TOO [OVERLAPPING]. >> PREVIOUS OWNERS. IT'S BEEN BREWING OVER PREVIOUS OWNERS. >> EXCUSE ME. >> IT HAS. GIVING [OVERLAPPING]. >> EXCUSE ME. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO GO BACK TO THIS PROTOCOL OF WE ALL GET ONE TIME TO SPEAK, AND THEN WE CAN DEBATE. I DON'T WANT TO GO THERE. YOU AND I DON'T SEE IT EYE TO EYE ON THIS. IS THERE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR OR NOT? DO YOU WISH TO ACTUALLY BRING THIS FORWARD, OR WOULD IT BE OKAY IF WE HAVE A DEEP DIVE INTO THE LOT IN THE NATURE OF LOT, AND HAS IT BEEN FILLED, AND IS IT CONTINUING TO BE FILLED, AND JUST LEAVE THE FENCE ALONE, LET CITY STAFF GO AHEAD AND EXECUTE THE CODE ENFORCEMENT ACTION AND WORK IT OUT THERE RATHER THAN TRY TO BRING A POLITICAL SOLUTION TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. >> BASICALLY, THE CITY MANAGER INDICATED, IF WE DON'T DO RECONSIDER, HE WILL SEND SOMEBODY TOMORROW TO TELL HIM TO REMOVE HIS FENCE AND TREES AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. >> HE WILL GO TO CODE ENFORCEMENT MAGISTRATE. >> YEAH. >> I WILL BE WORKED OUT THERE, AND IT MAY COME BACK TO US? >> NO, IT WOULD GO DIRECTLY TO CIRCUIT COURT. >> OKAY. TO THIS MAGISTRATE, IF THE MAGISTRATE [OVERLAPPING]. >> FROM THE MAGISTRATE, IT WOULD GO TO CIRCUIT COURT ON APPEAL. >> BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO TO CIRCUIT COURT. [02:30:01] >> IF I INSTRUCT CODE ENFORCEMENT TO PROCEED WITH THE CASE, IT WILL BE SCHEDULED BEFORE THE SPECIAL MAGISTRATE. IT WILL BE OUT OF OUR HANDS. >> THEN THE SPECIAL MAGISTRATE WOULD MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHETHER YES, THE FENCE HAS TO COME DOWN OR WHAT? YOU'RE SAYING IT GOES STRAIGHT TO CIRCUIT COURT? >> NO. IT'S APPEALABLE TO CIRCUIT COURT, IT'S NOT A APPEALABLE TO YOU. >> RIGHT. THAT WAY, YOU'RE IN THE COURT SYSTEM, NOT IN THE POLITICAL SYSTEM. >> BUT ALSO, IF IT LEAVES OUR HANDS AND GOES TO CIRCUIT COURT, THERE IS A CHANCE THAT HE WILL WIN BECAUSE HE DID GET THE PERMITS TO GET THIS DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE. >> WOULD YOU LIKE TO WEIGH IN ON THAT PERMIT, EXACTLY WHAT THE MEANING OF THAT PERMIT IS. ISN'T THAT FOR PRIVATE PROPERTY THAT WE ISSUE PERMITS FOR, NOT FOR PUBLIC PROPERTY? >> YEAH. THAT'S CORRECT. >> THAT'S A MISUNDERSTANDING RIGHT NOW, I THINK. >> I HAVE NOT SEEN THE SITE PLAN THAT WAS ACCOMPANYING THE PERMIT. THE PAPER PERMIT ITSELF SHOULD HAVE VERY CLEARLY DESIGNATED WHERE THE FENCE WILL BE WITH A LEGAL DESCRIPTION OF THE PROPERTY. >> OKAY. >> I DON'T BELIEVE, BUT I HAVE TO VERIFY. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THE LEGAL DESCRIPTION THAT SAYS, WHERE WHERE THE FENCE IS GOING TO BE INCLUDES THE CITY RIGHT OF WAY. IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THE SITE PLAN THAT ACCOMPANIED THE PERMIT SHOWED HAD A SKETCH, AND IT WASN'T CLEAR ON THE SKETCH WHETHER THE FENCE WAS ON THE CITY PROPERTY OR THE PRIVATE PROPERTY. IT'S AN OVER THE COUNTER TYPE PERMIT, FENCE PERMITS ARE. THE FENCE PERMIT WAS ISSUED, DEFENSE WAS INSTALLED, AN INSPECTOR DROVE BY AND SAID FENCES THERE. IT WASN'T UNTIL AFTER THE FACT THAT WE WERE TOLD BY A NEIGHBOR THAT HE PUT THE FENCE IN THE CITY RIGHT OF WAY. THAT'S WHEN WE DISCOVERED THAT THE FENCE WAS IN THE RIGHT OF WAY, AND INDEED, HE HAD PUT SOME LANDSCAPING. SOME OF THOSE PALM TREES ARE ALSO IN THE RIGHT OF WAY, AS WELL AS IRRIGATION AND ACCENT LIGHTING. SOME OF THE PALM TREES, MY UNDERSTANDING, WERE ALREADY PLANTED ON THAT RIGHT OF WAY. A CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE WAS GENERATED. THE CASE THAT WAS GENERATED INCLUDED THE FENCE, THE IRRIGATION, AND THE ACCENT LIGHTING, BUT NOT THE PALM TREES. HE PRESENTED A LICENSE AGREEMENT BEFORE THE CITY COMMISSION TO OBTAIN A LICENSE. THAT'S JUST A RECOGNITION THAT THESE ITEMS ARE ON THE CITY PROPERTY, AND THAT WE CAN REMOVE THEM AT HIS EXPENSE AT ANY TIME. THAT LICENSE AGREEMENT COVERED THE FENCE, THE PALM TREES, THE IRRIGATION, AND THE ACCENT LIGHTING, AND YOU DID NOT APPROVE THAT LICENSE AGREEMENT. >> CORRECT. >> I THINK I GOT THAT RIGHT. >> LICENSE AGREEMENT IS FOR PUBLIC PROPERTY. THAT IS PROPERTY OF THE CITY, EVERY TAXPAYER YOU OWN IT, I OWN IT, WE ALL OWN IT, AND IT HAPPENS TO BE WATER. >> THAT EXTENDS DOWN, I BELIEVE, FIVE LOTS NORTH OF THERE. WE CAN GO THROUGH THIS WITH THE OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS AS WELL. ONCE WE ESTABLISH THIS AND GIVE THEM THE FENCE, IF WE REVISIT IT AND DECIDE AND GIVE THEM THE FENCE, WE WOULD HAVE A VERY TOUGH TIME ARGUING NO FENCE FOR THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORS. THERE GOES YOUR WATER ACCESS FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD HENCE, THE TROUBLE AHEAD. >> CAN WE JUST WAIT TO GET THE REPORT BACK BEFORE WE HAVE HIM MOVE HIS FENCE? CAN WE JUST GET THE FINDINGS BACK? >> ON WHAT? >> ON THE COMPLAINT IN ITSELF. >> ON WHAT? THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE, REALLY? THAT'S JUST ABOUT EXPANDING THE LAW. THAT'S ABOUT HOW THE LAW HAS BEEN FILLED OVER THE YEARS. I THINK THERE'S BEEN THREE DIFFERENT PROPERTY OWNERS THAT HAVE ADDED TO THE LAW, INCLUDING MR HARDY HIMSELF? THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE. THAT IS OF CONCERN TO THE NEIGHBOR. I ALSO SPOKE WITH THE NEIGHBORS. >> I THOUGHT HE SAID HE BOUGHT THE LOT IN THAT. >> HE BOUGHT THAT FOR MR HARDY. I MEAN, I'M SORRY, HE BOUGHT THE HOUSE FOR MR HARDY. MR HARDY KEPT THE LOT ON THE WATER SIDE. >> BUT HE JUST RECENTLY BOUGHT THE OTHER PROPERTY AND THAT'S WHY HE WENT TO THE PROPERTY APPRAISAL, WHICH THAT CAN BE VERIFIED, AND HAD THAT ALL COMBINED AS ONE LOT, HIS LOT. >> HIS CONCERN IS THAT THE LOT WILL CONTINUE TO GROW AS IT HAS IN THE PAST. [02:35:06] IT IS A SEPARATE ISSUE THAN THE FENCE, BUT IT DOES GET ALL TANGLED UP WITH THE NEIGHBORS. WE'RE ALL HUMAN BEINGS, AND IT IS A COMPLICATED ISSUE. BUT I WAS REALLY HOPING THAT WE COULD LEAVE THIS DECISION ON THE TABLE AND LET THE SPECIAL MAGISTRATE SORT THROUGH IT, AND PERHAPS THERE WOULD BE SOMETHING, MAYBE A DIFFERENT PROPOSAL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE TO STIR EVERYBODY UP OVER THAT. SEPARATELY, LOOK INTO THE SIZE OF THE LOT, WHICH WAS THE REAL CONCERN OF YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. THE REAL CONCERN THE NEIGHBOR YOU SPOKE WITH WAS ABOUT THAT LOT GROWING. JUST KEEP GETTING FILLED. I'M SORRY. I'M A LITTLE RAW ON THIS ISSUE. IT'S TOUGH. IT'S A TOUGH NEIGHBORHOOD ISSUE. >> I CAN'T VOTE ON THIS, RIGHT? >> WHY WOULD YOU NOT BE ABLE TO VOTE ON IT? >> BECAUSE I VOTED. >> YOU VOTED NO, ON THE YOU WANTED TO GRANT THE LICENSE AGREEMENT? THAT'S CORRECT. YOU CANNOT VOTE. ON THIS PROCEDURAL MOTION. YOU COULD VOTE IF YOU DECIDE, YOU CAN VOTE. >> I'LL REFRAIN FOR NOW, OKAY? >> SO, IF YOU'LL JUST THINK ABOUT THAT, MISS GARRISON, WE'LL GO. DID YOU HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS? BESIDES THAT. >> CAN I JUST WRAP THIS UP? JUST ONE QUICK THING. >> YES. >> BASICALLY, YOU MADE IT WOULD HAVE FLOATED A MOTION. THE ONLY TWO OTHER PEOPLE WHO COULD VOTE ON IT ARE ME AND THE MAYOR, AM I RIGHT? >> NO, WE GET ALL THAT. >> I GUESS, YEAH. WHO WAS IT THAT VOTED TO NOT GRANT THE LICENSE AGREEMENT? NO, HE VOTED TO GRANT IT. YOU WOULD HAVE VOTED [OVERLAPPING]. >> THE MOTION WAS TO DENY IT. >> THAT'S RIGHT. THOSE THREE OF US, WHAT I'M TRYING TO GET CLARITY ON, ARE WE THE ONLY THREE WHO COULD SECOND A MOTION IF ONE WERE TO BE? >> YES. WHOEVER VOTED TO NOT GRANT THE LICENSE AGREEMENT. >> THAT'S COMMISSIONER GARRIS, MAYOR SYKES KLEIN, AND MYSELF. WHAT A POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS I'M NOT GOING TO SECOND THAT MOTION. >> I'M NOT INCLINED TO. >> I'M OUT BECAUSE I WAS ABSENT. >> YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT. IT HAS TO BE A MOTION IN A SECOND BY SOMEBODY WHO WAS VOTING ON THE SIDE THAT WON. I KNOW THAT'S A CONVOLUTED WAY. >> THAT WAS NEVER CLEAR TO ME, BUT THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT. COMMISSIONER DEPREOR. >> WOW. I WENT OFF ON THAT TANGENT, BUT SO TO GET BACK TO IT THE I WATCHED THE PCB HEARING ON THE INLET DRIVE SEA WALL. I WANT TO AGAIN THANK THE STAFF AND EVERYBODY THAT WORKED ON THAT. IT SEEMS LIKE THE NEIGHBORHOOD THEY GOT AS USUAL, AND THIS IS ONE THING I'M REALLY HAPPY ABOUT WITH OUR STAFF. SEEMS LIKE THEY WENT OUT, THEY ENGAGED THE NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU DON'T PLEASE EVERYBODY, BUT I THINK THEY GOT A GOOD RESULT. I THINK I'M RIGHT IN DIRECT IN SAYING THERE'S NOTHING MORE SUPPORTIVE THAN SOMEONE LENDING THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY TO THE PROJECT. OR ALLOWING IT, AND I MAY BE WRONG ON THEM ALLOWING IT OR NOT, BUT FROM WHAT I HEARD FROM THE NEIGHBOR, THE GENTLEMAN ACROSS THE STREET THAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT IS PARTICIPATING IN THIS PROJECT. >> I WOULD JUST CAUTION THE COMMISSION FROM COMMENTING ON THAT PARTICULAR PROJECT. THE REASON I SAY THAT IS THAT THERE IS A REPRESENTED PARTY, SOMEONE WHO HAS RETAINED AN ATTORNEY THAT MAY BE CHALLENGING OR APPEALING THE PCB'S GRANTING OF THAT CONSERVATION. >> OH, SO EVERYTHING I'M SAYING IS WRONG. >> I'M NOT SAYING IT'S WRONG [OVERLAPPING]. >> CONVERSATION. WELL, I'LL JUST SAY THIS. THE CONVERSATION WAS IMPORTANT, AND I THINK IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT PROJECT, AND I LIKE THE WAY IT WENT. I WILL REFRAIN FROM SAYING ANYTHING ELSE AT THE MOMENT. BUT I WILL SAY GENERALLY ONE THING, I DID LIKE THE FACT THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE COMBINING THIS GRAY AND GREEN INFRASTRUCTURE IN PROPOSED IN THAT. I GUESS I WILL LEAVE THAT ONE THERE FOR NOW. SEEMS LIKE EVERYWHERE I GO. >> HE TALKED TO ALL OF US, DON'T WORRY. >> YES. EVERYWHERE I GO I'M GETTING HEMMED IN HERE. >> WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE. >> IF I WAS SMARTTER, I'D JUST LEAVE. THE OTHER THING WAS WITH THIS ISSUE WITH MR BRUNO ON CINCINNATI AVENUE? >> YES. >> IS THERE RIGHT NOW A PENDING REQUEST TO MAKE CINCINNATI A RESIDENT-ONLY? >> NO, I THINK HE WAS REFERRING TO OUR RESIDENTS-ONLY PARKING PROGRAM DURING NIGHTS OF LIGHTS. [02:40:03] >> DURING NIGHTS OF LIGHTS. THANK YOU. CLARA, I THOUGHT HE WAS THE NEIGHBORS HAD ADDED AND STUFF. THANK YOU. THAT'S ALL I NEED TO KNOW. THAT'S IT. >> THAT WAS GREAT. THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THAT UP. COMMISSIONER SPRING. >> I JUST HAVE TWO THINGS. I CALLED THREE TIMES, TWO FOR A RED LIGHT AND ONE FOR A MANHOLE COVER THAT POPPED OUT, AND I GOT A QUICK RESPONSE, AND THEY CAME OUT REALLY QUICKLY. STAFF IS WONDERFUL. SECOND THING IS, I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT PROPERTY TAX REDUCTION. IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT WE WERE ABOUT TO SPEND A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY ON A FIRE STATION. WE ARE MAKING PLANS. WE HAVE MONEY FOR THE PLANS. WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY. BUT IF WE LOSE OUR PROPERTY TAX, WE CHANGE EVERYTHING POTENTIALLY. I JUST THINK WE OUGHT TO BE VERY CAREFUL MOVING TOO FAR FORWARD UNTIL WE HAVE A GOOD FEEL ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT SPRING ON BUILDING THAT FIRE STATION OR NOT. BECAUSE EVERYTHING CHANGES IN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, IF THE PROPERTY TAX LAW THAT THE GOVERNOR IS REQUESTING GOES INTO EFFECT. OUR LIVES ARE CHANGED COMPLETELY, AND IT'S NOT FOR THE GOOD. >> VICE MAYOR. >> THANK YOU. WELL, THAT'S ANOTHER VERY POINTED AND IMPORTANT POINT TO MAKE. I THINK I MEAN, I FOLLOW THE MAYOR'S LEAD IN THIS, BUT IT'S ALL OF OUR JOBS TO ADVOCATE AND FOR RETAINING ADVALORUM TAXES SO THAT WE HAVE BASIC SERVICES AND TO HELP EDUCATE OTHER FOLKS ABOUT WHERE THE MONEY WOULD COME FROM AND IF WE DON'T HAVE LOCAL ADVORM TAXES BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T COME FROM LOCAL SOURCES, AND THE DECISIONS WOULDN'T BE MADE LOCALLY. I HAD A LITTLE LIGHTER NOTE THING TO PUT ON MY COMMENTS. WE HAVE BEEN GOING BACK AND FORTH ABOUT HOW WE PROTECT IN PERPETUITY FOR THE LONG TERM, OUR CONSERVATION LANDS THAT WE'VE WORKED SO HARD FOR AND THAT OUR CITIZENS HAVE BACKED SO OVERWHELMINGLY AND SUPPORTED, AND JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KEEP THEM AS CONSERVATION LANDS. WE WENT BACK AND FORTH ABOUT QUITE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS. THEN I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH A COLLEAGUE LAST WEEK, AND SHE SAID, HEY, CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE BEACH HAS SOMETHING THAT'S PRETTY COOL, THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL AND VERY UNCOMPLICATED. I'LL READ IT. IT'S A PART OF THEIR CHARTER. IT SAYS, A, ALL CITY-OWNED PARKS WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OF ST. AUGUSTINE BEACH MAY NOT BE SOLD, LEASED, TRADED OR GIVEN AWAY, ABSENT THE PASSAGE BY AN AFFIRMATION VOTE OF FOUR-FIFTHS OF THE CITY COMMISSION AND APPROVAL BY THE ELECTORATE, OR BY A VOTE OF THE ELECTORATE THROUGH INITIATIVE AS PROVIDED FOR IN THEIR ARTICLE 2. I THINK THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO EXPLORE AS AN ALTERNATIVE THAT WOULD NOT NECESSITATE HAVING CONSERVATION EASEMENTS OR OTHER INSTRUMENTS. JUST TO EXPLORE IT, HAVE A DIALOGUE OVER IT. I'M NOT SUGGESTING WE ADOPT IT, BUT IT'S ANOTHER OPTION THAT WE HADN'T CONSIDERED. WITH THAT AND THE FACT THAT THE STAFF WERE AMAZING OVER THE WEEKEND, I AM SO SORRY FOR ANYBODY WHO FLOODED. I WAS NERVOUS ABOUT IT MYSELF, WATCHING OUR YARD FLOOD AGAIN. I KNOW HOW HARD THAT IS, AND I KNOW MANY OF US DO. THANK YOU, STAFF FOR DOING ALL YOU COULD DO IN THE TRIPLE WHAMMY THAT WE GOT OVER THE WEEKEND. >> TRULY WELL SAID, IT WAS A TOUGH WEEKEND FOR US. THE STAFF PERFORMED ADMIRABLY. I WAS REALLY HAPPY ABOUT THE MESSAGING. I THOUGHT THE MESSAGING WAS REALLY GOOD, EVEN TO THE POINT OF, PLEASE DON'T DRIVE YOUR VEHICLE FAST. I MEAN, THE COMMUNITY REALLY PICKED UP ON THAT ONE. I WAS REALLY PROUD. I HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS TO PLEASE BEAR WITH ME. AS YOU KNOW, IT'S THE PLEASURE OF THE MAYOR TO ANNOUNCE THE HONOREES FOR NIGHTS OF LIGHTS NIGHT, AND WHICH IS SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 15TH, AT 6:30. THIS YEAR, IT WILL BE RUSTY HALL AND LEA CRAIG. LEA CRAIG IS THE FOUNDER OF THE MINORCAN EXPERIENCE, AND RUSTY IS PRESIDENT OF THE MENORCAN CULTURAL SOCIETY. THIS YEAR, WE WILL BE HONORING OUR MENORCAN CULTURE AND RESIDENTS THROUGH THEM. [02:45:02] I'M VERY PROUD TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. THEY HAVE BEEN SUCH AN INTEGRAL PART OF OUR HISTORY AND OUR CULTURE FOR SO VERY LONG. EVERYTHING FROM CATTLE AND AGRICULTURE TO FOODWAYS. THEY'RE JUST AMAZING, RESILIENT NEIGHBORS, FRIENDS, AND FAMILY MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY. I'M REALLY HONORED TO BE ABLE TO INVITE THEM TO TURN THE LIGHTS ON. I ALSO HAVE SPOKEN WITH SUSAN PHILLIPS OF THE VCB. I HAD ASKED HER TO PLEASE COME AND TALK TO US ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE DOING IN THE WAY OF ADVERTISING FOR NIGHTS OF LIGHTS. JUST, JUST A REPORT, A FRIENDLY REPORT, KEEPING US UP TO DATE. UNFORTUNATELY, SHE HAD A PRIOR ENGAGEMENT THAT SHE COULD NOT GET OUT OF FOR OCTOBER 27TH, AND IT WAS VERY UNDERSTANDABLE, BUT SHE SAID THAT SHE COULD COME TO THE NOVEMBER MEETING. IT WON'T BE BUT A COUPLE OF WEEKS BEFORE THE ACTUAL LIGHT-UP NIGHT, BUT I THINK IT'S A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE HER HERE AND HEAR HER SPEAK. I'VE ASKED THE CITY MANAGER TO PLEASE ADD HER TO THE AGENDA. LET'S SEE. CYNTHIA, COMMISSIONER GARRIS BROUGHT UP ABOUT THE TROLLEYS. I KNOW THERE WAS SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT THE TROLLEYS. I ALSO SAW SOCIAL MEDIA OF THE TROLLEYS DOWN RIBERIA STREET GOING VERY SLOWLY. I WROTE AN EMAIL TO MR CHATTERTON, AND HE WROTE ME BACK AND HE SAID THAT IS A NEW ROUTE FOR THEM, AND THAT THEY DO HAVE SAFETY PROTOCOLS, AND THAT THEY DO HAVE EMERGENCY PROTOCOLS FOR FLOODING, AND THAT THEY ADJUSTED AS THEY NEEDED ON THAT ROUTE, THAT HAS SOMETHING THAT HAD NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. I THINK WHAT YOU CAUGHT WAS AN ANOMALY MOVING FORWARD. I DO THINK THAT THEY'VE FIXED THEIR OWN PROBLEMS. I HOPE THAT WE'LL SEE HOW THAT GOES ANYWAY. THERE'S NO HARM IN ASKING, AND HOWEVER THEY WANT TO PRESENT TO US. MR BRUNO, AT PIZZA INN. I DID HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH HIM, AND IT WAS. IT WAS A REALLY GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE HE WAS REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT NIGHTS OF LIGHTS. SOMEHOW, HE HAD GOTTEN IT MIXED UP SOMEBODY HAD TOLD HIM SOMETHING, AND HE THOUGHT THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE A RESIDENTIAL PARKING PERMIT PROGRAM PERMANENTLY. AS YOU COULD HEAR, HE WENT WAY OUT OF HIS WAY TO PROVIDE FOR HIS STAFF PARKING. HE IS TO BE ADMIRED. NOT MANY OF OUR BUSINESSMEN. WELL, SOME OF THEM DO, BUT A LOT OF THEM DON'T PROVIDE FOR THEIR EMPLOYEE PARKING, WHICH REALLY FALLS ONTO US. I REALLY APPRECIATE HOW GOOD OF A BUSINESSMAN HE IS, AND I APPRECIATED THAT HE CAME AND SPOKE. HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO COME AND SPEAK. I HOPE THAT WE CAN ALLAY HIS CONCERNS MOVING FORWARD AND WORK HAND IN HAND, AND I KNOW MR FRANKLIN IS WORKING WITH HIM. THE OTHER THINGS I'VE HAD, BOY, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF ISSUES, BUT WE'VE GOT SOME REALLY SMALL ISSUES, TOO, AND SOME PEOPLE MAY DISAGREE WITH ME ON THAT, BUT RES IN THE PLAZA, APPARENTLY, IS A BIG THING THAT WE HAVE WREATHS ON THE POLES IN THE PLAZA. I THINK THAT'S THE ODDEST THING. APPARENTLY, THERE'S A SOCIAL MEDIA PHENOMENON HAPPENING ABOUT OUR WREATHS HANGING ON POLES IN THE PLAZA, AND IT'S TOO EARLY, AND I GUESS SOME PEOPLE ARE UPSET ABOUT IT. BUT I DO GET AN UPDATE FROM YOU, IF YOU WILL PLEASE. >> CAN WE START TO PUT OUT THE WREATHS AND WRAP THE POLES WITH THE RIBBON FIVE WEEKS BEFORE LIGHT UP NIGHT? IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT THIS SEASON, WE MOVED LIGHT UP NIGHT BACK A WEEK, SO IT FEELS LIKE IT'S REALLY PREMATURE. >> A LITTLE BIT EARLY YET. >> WE WOULD LIKE TO CONSIDER FOR FUTURE NIGHTS OF LIGHTS SEASONS TO HAVE A PRIVATE BECAUSE WE DO THAT IN-HOUSE WITH OUR GROUNDS CREW. THAT'S WHY IT TAKES US SO LONG TO DO IT, BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT OTHER JOBS TO DO. WE THINK MOVING FORWARD, WE'D LIKE TO HAVE A PRIVATE SERVICE INSTALL THE WREATHS AND THE DECORATIONS, SO THEY CAN DO IT MUCH QUICKER OR SOONER TO LIGHT UP NIGHT THAN WE DO IT. I DO APOLOGIZE FOR ANYBODY WHO THINKS WE'RE JUMPING THE GUN ON THE HOLIDAY SEASON. BUT I APOLOGIZE. >> WELL, I DON'T THINK WE CAN HAVE TOO MUCH CHRISTMAS SPIRIT, FRANKLY, IN THE WORLD. BUT THAT'S JUST ME. BUT THANK YOU FOR THE REPORT. [02:50:01] FINALLY, THE ONLY THING I HAVE LEFT IS A VICTIM OF THE FLOODING, THE DELUGE THAT WE HAD WAS OUR REDEVELOPMENT 25 CELEBRATION, WHICH IS, YES, HELLO, ON THE TOP OF THE PARKING GARAGE, WHICH IS CRAZY AND FUN. IT'S COOL AND FUN. BUT IT HAD TO BE RESCHEDULED, AND IT'S RESCHEDULED FOR OCTOBER 30TH. IT'S GOING TO BE AWESOME. THAT'S A THURSDAY EVENING. IT STARTS AT FIVE O'CLOCK AND GOES TO 8:00 PM. THERE'LL BE A BAND, THERE'LL BE GIVEAWAYS., OF COURSE, ALL THE COMMISSIONERS THAT CAN COME WILL BE THERE. I APOLOGIZE I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE THERE. I WILL BE OUT OF TOWN. BUT I KNOW THE PALMETTO PICKERS WILL BE PLAYING AT 5:30, AND I THINK IT'LL BE WONDERFUL, AND I'M SURE WE'LL HAVE THE BIKE VALET, THE OLD BEACH BIKE RIDERS ASSOCIATION. RIDE YOUR BIKE DOWN. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE. RIDE YOUR BIKE DOWN, AND THEY'LL TAKE CARE OF YOUR BIKE FOR YOU. WITH THAT SAID, WE'LL CALL IT AN EVENING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE IT. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.