4. PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR GENERAL PUBLIC COMMENTS OR FOR AGENDA ITEMS NOT REQUIRING A SEPARATE PUBLIC HEARING

[7.A.1. Madeira Planned Unit Development: 1. Presentation by City on tree removal and PUD details. 2. Presentation by Developer on tree removal and PUD details. 3. Open public comment period. (A. Skinner, Director Planning and Building)]

[00:50:02]

WHAT WE'LL DO IS WE WILL HAVE A PRESENTATION BY STAFF.

FIRST, MISS SKINNER WILL SPEAK AND THEN WE WILL HAVE A PRESENTATION BY THE PROPERTY OWNER?

>> YES. PROPERTY OWNER DEVELOPER.

>> PROPERTY OWNER DEVELOPER.

THEN WE WILL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN WE WILL HAVE DISCUSSION FOR COMMENTS.

SINCE THERE IS REALLY NOT A DECISION ON THE AGENDA TONIGHT.

WE ARE NOT REALLY BEING ASKED ANYTHING WE HAD JUST REQUESTED THIS PRESENTATION, INFORMATION AT THE REQUEST OF THE NEIGHBORS.

IF THAT'S CORRECT. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. MY NAME IS AMY SKINNER.

I'M THE DIRECTOR OF THE PLANNING AND BUILDING DEPARTMENT.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME THIS EVENING.

AS YOU KNOW, RECENTLY, THERE HAS BEEN PUBLIC COMMENT AND QUESTIONS OF STAFF FROM THE PUBLIC AND RESIDENTS OF MADEIRA RELATED TO THE STATUS OF DEVELOPMENT AND ASSOCIATED REQUIREMENTS FOR THE MADEIRA DEVELOPMENT TO MOVE FORWARD TO COMPLETION.

IT'S THE STAFF'S UNDERSTANDING THAT THE MADEIRA DEVELOPMENT IS A LONGSTANDING DEVELOPMENT WITH DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS UP TO 749 RESIDENTIAL UNITS, INCLUDING SINGLE FAMILY AND POTENTIALLY MULTIFAMILY UNITS, COMMERCIAL ACREAGE, CONSERVATION AREA, AND A 10 ACRE PARK.

THE DEVELOPMENT CAN PROCEED TO THIS END AS LONG AS THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE EXISTING PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AND THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.

RECENTLY, THE MAJORITY OF THE DEVELOPMENT HAS TAKEN PLACE IN THE AREAS OF THE FORMER GOLF COURSE, WHICH WERE CLEARED AS PART OF THE REMEDIATION PROCESS AND REQUIREMENTS TO CLEAN UP THE REMAINING CONTAMINANTS FROM THE ASSOCIATED GOLF COURSE.

THE ADDITIONAL AREAS REMAINING TO BE DEVELOPED WILL NEED TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PUD, RELATED TO PLATTING, REMOVAL OF TREES, AS DESCRIBED IN THE PUD, STEM WALL CONSTRUCTION, AND ANY OTHER PROVISIONS OUTLINED IN THE PUD.

THE PUD CAN HAVE UNIQUE REQUIREMENTS WHEN IT IS ADOPTED.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE MADEIRA PUD DOES OUTLINE THE TREE REMOVAL.

THAT A TREE REMOVAL APPLIES TO TREES 20 INCHES IN DIAMETER BREAST HEIGHT OR LARGER.

THE PUD WILL BE DEVELOPED AS ONE REMAINING PHASE, WHICH CURRENTLY DOES NOT EXPIRE UNTIL AUGUST OF 2032.

CIVIL SITE PLANS HAVE BEEN APPROVED FOR THE NORTHEASTERN AREA OF THE DEVELOPMENT REFERRED TO AS PHASE 3.

TREE REMOVAL CAN BE DONE WITHIN THE RIGHTS OF WAY AND OTHER AREAS REQUIRED FOR THE INSTALLATION OF PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE.

THE STATE HAS ACCEPTED THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN COMPLETED.

THERE IS NO LOCAL REQUIREMENT FOR ANY ADDITIONAL ARCHAEOLOGICAL INVESTIGATION.

THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN QUESTIONS OF OWNERSHIP OF CERTAIN MARSH PARCELS.

UPON FURTHER RESEARCH, IT IS STAFF'S UNDERSTANDING THAT PONTS ASSOCIATES CREATED AND COMPLETED CONSERVATION EASEMENTS ON MARSH PARCELS, GRANTING THE EASEMENTS TO THE ST. JOHNS RIVER WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, WHICH MAY BE CONTRIBUTING TO THE CONFUSION OF OWNERSHIP OF THE PROPERTY, BUT THE OWNERSHIP EASEMENTS AND LAND USE DESIGNATIONS FOR THE PROPERTY ARE IN GOOD STANDING.

REPRESENTATIVES ARE HERE TO PROVIDE THE CITY COMMISSION WITH A PRESENTATION, AND THEN WE CAN PROCEED WITH PUBLIC COMMENT.

THANK YOU. I AM AVAILABLE IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO GO THROUGH ANY MAPS TO REITERATE WHAT I PRESENTED LAST TIME OR?

>> WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT? IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE ONE ON THE SCREEN JUST FOR REFERENCE AS WE MOVE FORWARD.

>> LET'S SEE. PROBABLY ACTUALLY A RECENT MAP THAT WE HAVE DEVELOPED, IS THE MAP THAT SHOWS THE CONSERVATION EASEMENTS.

>> YES.

>> THAT ONE.

>> THIS IS ALSO OVERLAID ON AN AERIAL SO THAT YOU CAN SEE.

>> PERFECT.

>> I HAVE IT NORTH SOUTH.

I DON'T KNOW. IS THAT LOGICAL OR THIS WOULD BE THE MOST LOGICAL WAY? YOU CAN SEE THE DEVELOPMENT AS IT HAS PROCEEDED.

YOU CAN SEE THESE PHASES THAT ARE TAKING PLACE IN THE OLD GOLF COURSE AREA.

THEN THESE HARSHED AREAS ARE THE EXISTING CONSERVATION EASEMENTS THAT ARE IN PLACE THAT ARE ALSO ADJACENT TO THE MARSH.

>> GREAT. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WHO IS HERE TO REPRESENT THE PROPERTY OWNER/DEVELOPER?

[00:55:03]

>> I'VE GOT A MAP.

>> PLEASE STEP TO THE MICROPHONE AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

>> YES. MY NAME IS BILL LANIUS.

INTO THE MICROPHONE, SIR.

>> GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS BILL LANIUS I'M PRESIDENT OF PONCE ASSOCIATES, LLC.

WE ARE THE DEVELOPERS OF MADEIRA.

THANK YOU. I WAS JUST COMMENTING THAT I'VE GOT A MAP.

I'VE GOT A FEW MAPS THAT I CAN SHOW YOU ALL SHOW YOU HOW WE'RE PROGRESSING.

ANYWAY, I'M NOT HERE.

I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO YOU ALL TONIGHT.

WE'RE NOT COMING IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION, ASKING FOR ANY REVISIONS TO THE PUD OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I AM HOWEVER AWARE THAT OUR PROPERTY HAS GENERATED A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF ATTENTION RECENTLY.

A LOT OF MISINFORMATION THAT HASN'T BEEN CIRCULATED AND I HOPE TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT.

IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ABOUT ANYTHING THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD, HAPPY TO ANSWER THAT, HAPPY TO ADDRESS IT.

I DON'T PLAN TO USE MY ALLOTTED TIME TONIGHT THOUGH TO SPEND MUCH TIME ON THAT.

I WILL ACKNOWLEDGE THAT A LOT OF THE HOME OWNERS CONCERNS ARE REASONABLY FOUNDED AND HOPE TO ADDRESS THOSE.

I'LL START OFF WITH, LET'S SEE HERE.

I'LL START OFF WITH JUST A BRIEF TIMELINE.

PRIOR TO BECOMING MADEIRA, THE PROPERTY WAS OPERATED FOR APPROXIMATELY 85 YEARS AS A GOLF RESORT WITH SOME HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE.

CLOSURE OF THE GOLF COURSE AND THE DEVELOPMENT PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT EXCUSE ME, THAT WAS PROPOSED TO REPLACE IT BECAME HIGHLY CONTENTIOUS AND RESULTED IN LEGAL PROCEEDINGS AGAINST THE CITY.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ROUGHLY 2001-2002 TIME PERIOD.

A SPECIAL MASTER WAS APPOINTED TO FACILITATE A SETTLEMENT THAT WAS ULTIMATELY APPROVED BY THE CITY COMMISSION IN MARCH 2004.

I REFER TO THAT DOCUMENT GOING FORWARD AS THE 2004 ORDINANCE OR JUST THE ORDINANCE.

SINCE THE ORDINANCE WAS APPROVED, THERE'S ONLY BEEN REALLY MINOR MODIFICATIONS. 2004 ORDINANCE.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT A LITTLE BIT.

THERE WERE 14 PAGES OF MINUTES FOR THE SPECIAL MEETING OF THE CITY COMMISSION THAT WAS HELD ACTUALLY, I THINK IT WAS IN THIS VERY ROOM MARCH OF 2004.

IN ADDITION, THERE ARE 13 PAGES OF RECOMMENDED FINDINGS SUBMITTED BY THE SPECIAL MASTER, INCLUDING 51 RECOMMENDED MODIFICATIONS TO THE PUD THAT WERE APPROVED AS PART OF THE ORDINANCE.

IN PARTICULAR, NUMEROUS CONDITIONS REFERENCED THE REALIGNMENT OF ROADS AND OTHER DESIGN MODIFICATIONS THAT WERE AGREED TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS ABOUT TREES AND WETLANDS.

THOSE CONDITIONS WERE REFLECTED IN THE REVISED SITE PLAN THAT WAS ALSO ATTACHED TO THE ORDINANCE, AND I'LL SHOW YOU THAT IN JUST A SECOND.

AS A FURTHER COMPROMISE, THE PREVIOUSLY APPROVED DENSITIES FOR BOTH RESIDENTIAL, HOTEL AND OTHER COMMERCIAL USES OF THE PUD WERE ALSO REDUCED OR ELIMINATED IN THEIR ENTIRETY.

HERE'S THE 2000 SITE PLAN.

AMONG OTHER THINGS, AS APPROVED, THE SITE PLAN INCLUDED REALIGNED ROADS TO AVOID SIGNIFICANT TREES.

IT WAS UNDERSTOOD AND AGREED THAT NUMEROUS TREES WOULD NEED TO BE REMOVED TO FACILITATE DEVELOPMENT AT THAT TIME.

CONDITIONS FOR TREE REMOVAL.

OTHER PORTIONS OF THE THE ORDINANCE DEALT WITH PORTIONS OF THE DEVELOPMENT APART FROM THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

SPECIFICALLY, IT WAS RESOLVED THAT LOTS WILL NOT BE CLEARED AS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT INFRASTRUCTURE, LOTS WILL BE CLEARED BY RESIDENTIAL BUILDERS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CITY'S ORDINANCE, AND THERE WAS A REQUIREMENT FOR STEM WALL CONSTRUCTION, ALSO, WHICH IS A TREE SAVING MEASURE, IF YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT.

WHERE ARE WE TODAY? AMY MENTIONED THAT WE WERE APPROVED FOR 749 UNITS.

AS OF TODAY, WE HAVE PLOTTED 478 HOME SITES WITH ANOTHER 271 TO COMPLETE SO WE'RE ABOUT 64% COMPLETED AS FAR AS THE PLANNING PROCESS GOES.

[01:00:01]

IN TERMS OF HOME CONSTRUCTION, WE HAVE 328 COMPLETED HOMES THAT ARE ON THE TAX ROLL.

ANOTHER 421 HOMES LEFT TO GO AND SO WE'RE 44% COMPLETE THERE.

THIS MAP GIVES YOU MORE GRAPHICALLY WHERE WHAT THE PROGRESS IS, THE GRADE AREAS OR THE PORTIONS OF THE DEVELOPMENT THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN DEVELOPED AND PLATTED.

THEN I'VE JUST HIGHLIGHTED HERE, PHASE 3 WHICH IS THE NEXT SECTION OF DEVELOPMENT THAT WE'RE PLANNING TO GO INTO.

PHASE 3 WILL CONSIST OF ABOUT 56 PLOTS, 56 HOME SITES. LITTLE BIT ABOUT US.

AS A DEVELOPER OF MADEIRA AND OTHER MASTER PLAN COMMUNITIES, WE OPERATE UNDER SIGNIFICANT REGULATORY CONTROL. WE EMBRACE THAT.

AS A NECESSARY, WE REALIZE IT'S TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC INTEREST AND WE VIEW IT REALLY AS JUST ANOTHER SET OF EYES AND EARS FOR US.

WE WORK DILIGENTLY TO BUILD TRUSTING RELATIONSHIPS WITH REGULATORS BECAUSE NOT ONLY IS IT GOOD FOR OUR BUSINESS, IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

YOU COMMISSIONERS ARE PROBABLY NOT TOO FAMILIAR WITH US AT THIS POINT BECAUSE WE REALLY HAVEN'T HAD A NEED TO COME IN FOR ANY REVISIONS TO OUR PUD.

BUT WE DO WORK CLOSELY WITH THE CITY STAFF ON A VERY FREQUENT BASIS.

I VIEW THIS AS A VERY HEALTHY AND ARM'S LENGTH TRANSACTION.

PONCE ASSOCIATES OPERATES AS A BUSINESS, BUT UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE MANY STAKEHOLDERS WITH A STAKE IN MADEIRA.

GENERALLY, WE BELIEVE THAT IN THE LONG TERM, WHAT'S GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY IS GOOD FOR OUR BUSINESS, AND WE ARE A BUSINESS WITH A SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL INVESTMENT IN MADEIRA AND FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITIES TO OUR INVESTORS.

NEVERTHELESS, WE STRIVE TO BE A GOOD CORPORATE CITIZEN.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO STRESS THAT EARLY LAST YEAR, WE DID MAKE GOOD FAITH EFFORTS TO EXPLORE LAND PRESERVATION ALTERNATIVES FOR OUR LAND IN PHASE 3.

THEY JUST DIDN'T PAN OUT.

BUT ANY ANY ASSERTATIONS THAT WE DID NOT MAKE GOOD FAITH EFFORTS ARE SIMPLY FALSE.

I'D BE HAPPY TO GO INTO DETAILS ABOUT THAT, IF YOU LIKE.

AS THE DEVELOPERS OF MADEIRA, WE DO SHARE AN APPRECIATION FOR THE NATURAL BEAUTY AND ABUNDANT WILDLIFE THAT MADEIRA AFFORDS TO ITS RESIDENTS.

WE DEVELOP DISTINGUISHED COMMUNITIES SUCH AS MADEIRA, BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, OUR GROUP OF COMPANIES INVEST IN AND MANAGES OVER 6,500 ACRES OF CONSERVATION LAND STRETCHING FROM FLORIDA TO THE CAROLINAS.

THAT'S MORE THAN 10 SQUARE MILES OF LAND PERMANENTLY SET ASIDE FOR PRESERVATION OR RESTORATION OF LAND AND WETLANDS, INCLUDING HABITAT FOR BIRDS AND MANY OTHER SPECIES OF WILDLIFE.

WHEN THE GOLF COURSE AT MADEIRA CLOSED, THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES WERE CLEARLY PRESENT AND REMEDIAL ACTION WAS NEEDED.

PONCE ASSOCIATES FORMED A TEAM OF ENVIRONMENTAL PROFESSIONALS WITH REGULATORS TO DEVELOP A REMEDIAL PLAN.

TO DATE, COSTS IN EXCESS OF SIX MILLION DOLLARS HAVE BEEN INCURRED BY PONCE ASSOCIATES FOR SITE REMEDIATION WORK.

THE SUCCESS OF OUR EFFORTS IS COMPARISON IS APPARENT IN NUMEROUS RESPECTS.

WADING BIRDS SUCH AS SPOONBILLS AND HERONS ARE SEEN FORAGING THROUGHOUT THE PROPERTY AND THE OYSTER BEDS HAVE RETURNED TO THE WATERWAYS ADJOINING MADEIRA.

LET'S TALK ABOUT PHASE 3 DEVELOPMENT. HERE WE GO.

AS CITY STAFF HAS POINTED OUT, THE GENERAL LAYOUT OF PHASE 3 HAS CONSISTENTLY BEEN REPRESENTED IN DEVELOPMENT PLANS AND IS INTENDED TO BE DEVELOPED.

WHAT'S CHANGED IN THE LAST 20 YEARS SINCE THAT ORDINANCE WAS APPROVED BY CITY COMMISSION? THIS SLIDE SHOWS AN OVERLAY OF PHASE 3 ON A RECENT AERIAL, AND I'LL JUST DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE HOMES ALONG THE LAKE THERE THAT ARE HIGHLIGHTED.

THOSE HOMES WERE BUILT AND SOLD APPROXIMATELY 4-6 YEARS AGO, AND IT'S THE RESIDENTS OF THESE HOMES THAT HAVE BEEN THE MOST OUTSPOKEN.

IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE THAT THEY WOULD PREFER TO SEE NO HOMES IN THEIR BACKYARDS, BUT IT IS NOT THEIR PROPERTY.

AS FAR AS OUR CURRENT STATUS GOES WITH PHASE 3 LAND, ENGINEERING PLANS HAVE BEEN IMPROVED.

[01:05:01]

A PERMITS HAVE BEEN APPLIED FOR AND OBTAINED.

WE PAID OUR $77,000 IN IMPACT FEES TO THE CITY.

OUR AGREEMENT WITH A GENERAL CONTRACTOR HAS BEEN EXECUTED.

OUR PERFORMANCE BOND HAS BEEN POSTED.

OUR PRECONSTRUCTION MEETING WITH CITY AND CITY STAFF HAS BEEN CONDUCTED AND WE HAVE CONTRACTS TO SELL THE LAND AND THE HOME SITES THAT WE INTEND TO DEVELOP.

SUPPOSE THIS COULD BE REGARDED AS THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM, MAYBE, BUT THE TREES, THE PHASE 3 TREES.

DO WE HAVE TREES? WE HAVE LOTS OF TREES.

WE READILY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.

WE KNEW THERE WERE MANY TREES WHEN THE SITE PLAN WAS APPROVED, AND IT WAS REFERRED TO AS THE FORESTED AREAS IN THAT ORDINANCE.

WE VIEW THIS ACTUALLY AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAVE AS MANY TREES AS WE REASONABLY CAN, AND WE HAVE EVERY INTENTION OF DOING SO AND DEVELOPING THIS BEAUTIFUL PROPERTY ACCORDING TO A LONG ESTABLISHED PLAN THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH OUR RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS.

HERE'S OUR PLAN FOR CLEARING.

THE SITE WILL NOT BE CLEAR CUT.

I KNOW THERE'S BEEN MISINFORMATION ABOUT THAT. IT WILL NOT BE CLEAR CUT.

CLEARING WILL OCCUR AS NECESSARY FOR RIGHT AWAY AND OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE.

[NOISE] AFTER THAT, LOTS WILL BE CLEARED LATER BY RESIDENTIAL BUILDERS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CITY'S TREE ORDERS.

MAY I HAVE JUST ONE MORE MINUTE?

>> PLEASE CONTINUE.

>> THANK YOU. ADDITIONAL PRECAUTIONS.

ADDITIONAL PRECAUTIONS WE'RE PUTTING IN PLACE.

WE'VE ENGAGED AN ARBORIST WHO WILL CONSULT WITH US DURING LAND DEVELOPMENT AND AFTER.

DURING LAND DEVELOPMENT, OUR ENVIRONMENTAL CONSULTANTS WILL MONITOR THE SITE FOR POTENTIAL PRESENCE OF PROTECTED WADING BIRD SPECIES, AND WE WILL ADHERE STRICTLY TO THE FISH AND WILDLIFE GUIDELINES TO PROTECT OUR BIRDS AND OUR OTHER WILDLIFE.

OUR SITE CONTRACTOR IS FULLY AWARE OF THESE CLEARING GUIDELINES AND OUR ENVIRONMENTAL REQUIREMENTS.

I'LL JUST BRING THIS TO A CONCLUSION NOW.

>> PLEASE DO.

>> JUST ONE MORE MINUTE. AS I STATED BEFORE, WE'RE NOT REQUESTING ANY MODIFICATIONS TO OUR PUD OR ANY OTHER APPROVAL FROM CITY COMMISSIONERS AT THIS TIME.

PONCE ASSOCIATES IS RELYING ON PREVIOUS COMMITMENTS AND APPROVALS TO COMPLETE OUR COMMUNITY.

PHASE 3 IS NEXT AND WE INTEND TO HONOR OUR COMMITMENTS AND OUR CIVIC RESPONSIBILITIES IN CREATING THE EXCEPTIONAL HOME SITES THAT WE KNOW WILL BE THERE.

IN PARTICULAR, WE INTEND TO PROTECT THE WILDLIFE AND TO COMPLY WITH TREE PROVISIONS AS LAND DEVELOPMENT PROCEEDS.

TREES ARE AN ASSET OF THE COMMUNITY. WE RECOGNIZE THAT.

WE UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE THAT HOMEOWNERS ACROSS THE POND DON'T WANT TO CHANGE.

MOST EVERYONE WOULD PREFER TO HAVE THEIR OWN PRIVATE PRESERVE IN THEIR BACKYARD.

IN MANY WAYS, MADEIRA IS A PRIVATE PRESERVE FOR ALL OF ITS RESIDENTS.

THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE REASON THAT MAKES MADEIRA SUCH A WONDERFUL COMMUNITY TO LIVE IN AND WHAT WILL CONTINUE TO ATTRACT NEW RESIDENTS TO IT.

WE TAKE GREAT PRIDE IN BEING ITS DEVELOPERS AND WHOLEHEARTEDLY BELIEVE THAT MADEIRA COMPLEMENTS THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO WELL INTO THE FUTURE.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COURTESY.

ELLEN AVERY SMITH IS HERE WITH ME.

WE'RE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE EITHER NOW OR IN RESPONSE TO OTHER PUBLIC COMMENT THAT YOU MAY RECEIVE. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

[NOISE] ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT?

>> YES, I HAVE A QUESTION.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT NUMBER IT IS.

BUT THE TREE MAP THAT YOU PUT UP, THE PAGE NUMBER.

THAT THAT TREE MAP, I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHEN IT WAS PERFORMED BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THERE'S A DATE THAT SAYS MARCH OF THIS YEAR, BUT IS IT AN OLDER MAP THAT?

>> I'M SORRY. THOSE TREES WERE PLOTTED BACK IN SOMETIME AROUND 2004.

THOSE WERE THE PLOTS THAT WERE USED FOR THE ALIGNMENT OF THE ROADS THAT YOU SEE TODAY.

>> THAT'S THE TREE MAP THAT IS IN OUR AGENDA PACKET?

>> YES.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE GO TO COMMENT?

>> YES. I NEED CLARIFICATION ON THE EXPIRATION DATE THAT HAPPENED AND THEN IT'S BEEN REPORTED TO ME THERE WAS AN EXPIRATION DATE OF 2014 AND IT WAS IGNORED, BUT THE CITY COMMISSION APPROVED IT ON 2016.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

>> YES, SIR. FOR THE RECORD, ELLEN AVERY SMITH, ROGERS TOWERS, 100 WHAT STONE PLACE HERE IN ST. AUGUSTINE.

IN SUMMARY, WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS IN 2015, THE CITY COMMISSION APPROVED A MODIFICATION OF THE PUD.

ALSO, THROUGH CORRESPONDENCE FROM MY LAW FIRM BASED ON SECTION 252.363 FLORIDA STATUTES,

[01:10:08]

IT ALLOWS THE GOVERNOR AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO EXTEND THE EXPIRATION DATES AND CERTAIN PHASING DATES OF PUDS, DRIS, AND OTHER LOCAL GOVERNMENT DEVELOPMENT ORDERS FOR STATES OF EMERGENCY.

I CORRESPONDED WITH YOUR CITY ATTORNEY AND OTHER STAFF REGARDING LEGAL EXTENSIONS OF THE PUD DATES UNDER THAT SECTION OF FLORIDA STATUTES.

>> THANKS. THE OTHER THING, THE ARBORIST THAT YOU'VE HIRED, IS IT A CERTIFIED ARBORIST OR A DEGREED ARBORIST?

>> YES. I BELIEVE [INAUDIBLE]

>> YOU WANT TO SPEAK TO THE MICROPHONE SO WE HEAR HIM OUT ON THE RECORD.

>> THE ANSWER WAS, YES, THERE IS A CERTIFIED ARBORIST THAT CONTINUES TO WORK ON MADEIRA.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT? I'M EAGER TO HEAR WHAT THE NEIGHBORS HAVE TO SAY.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> PLEASE STICK AROUND.

[LAUGHTER] FIRST SPEAKER UP IS JEFF FOX FOLLOWED BY VICKI PAYNE.

WE HAVE A SEAT AVAILABLE IN THE FRONT ROW FOR THOSE THAT ARE CALLED SECOND SO THAT THEY MAY BE READY SO THAT WE CAN WE HAVE QUITE A FEW SPEAKER CARDS, SO WE'D LIKE TO TRY TO KEEP THINGS MOVING. WELCOME.

>> MY NAME IS JEFF FOX. I LIVE AT 586 PESCADO.

WHERE WERE YOU 20 YEARS AGO? I SUPPOSE YOU WERE SOMEWHERE ALONG YOUR JOURNEY TO BECOMING A CIVIL SERVANT, WHICH HAS CULMINATED IN YOUR ELECTION TO THE CITY COMMISSION.

CONGRATULATIONS. YOU MADE IT.

TWENTY YEARS AGO, A GROUP OF LIKE MINDED FOLKS CALLED THE CITY COMMISSION APPROVED THE PUD TO DEVELOP MADEIRA.

JUST LIKE YOU OF 20 YEARS AGO, THE YOU OF 20 YEARS LATER IN 2024 IS A MUCH DIFFERENT, MORE MATURE AND WISER VERSION OF YOUR FORMER SELF.

LIKEWISE, THE MADEIRA FOREST IS MUCH DIFFERENT.

THE SAME OLD PUD BASED ON 20 YEAR OLD INFORMATION POORLY INVESTIGATED AT THAT TIME BY TODAY'S STANDARDS, RESULTING IN A BLANKET ORDER TO DESTROY THE FOREST FOR HOME SITES.

NOW, 20 YEARS LATER, 100-200 YEAR OLD TREES, WHOSE CANOPY COVERS MUCH OF THE AFOREMENTIONED PROPERTY SITS AT A CROSS ROADS FOR ITS OWN LIFE.

YOU ARE THE CROSS ROADS GUARD.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO DO? BY THE WAY, THAT OLD PUD EXPIRED IN 2014, WHICH WE JUST HEARD.

BY SOME MIRACLE, IT WAS RESUSCITATED IN 2016 BY OTHER COMMISSIONERS THAN YOURSELVES.

ALTHOUGH FOLKS WHO KNOW SAY THAT ONCE THE PUD EXPIRES, IT MUST BE STARTED FROM NEW.

THE PUDS A DUD A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN THE LOCAL PAPER HAD LOCAL NEWS, IT WAS REVEALED AT THAT TIME THAT THE FOLKS IN POWER WHEN I 95 WAS BEING BUILT.

WELL KNOWING THAT KING STREET WAS THE MOST DIRECT ACCESS TO THE CITY FROM 95, DECIDED THE NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN APPROACH VIA 16 AND 207 WAS BETTER.

BY THE WAY, IF IT WENT THROUGH KING STREET, IT WOULD IMPROVE THE PROPERTY VALUES IN WEST AUGUSTINE, AND THOSE POWERS DIDN'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.

A REAL BLACK EYE FOR THE CITY.

NINETEEN ONE SAYS, THE HEAVENS DECLARE THE GLORY OF GOD AND I WOULD I WOULD ADD THAT THE MADEIRA FOREST DOES THE SAME,200 PLUS YEARS OF UNINTERRUPTED GROWTH HAS MADE A MAGNIFICENT CANOPY, THE LIKES OF WHICH CANNOT BE EXCUSE ME FOUND WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS.

THE PUDS A DUD AND YOU HAVE TO WEIGH, ARE MY HANDS TIED WITH A DUD PUD.

WHILE I STEP OUT AND RENEGOTIATE A BETTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THE FOREST WITH THE MATURITY AND WISDOM I HAVE NOW.

IN ADDITION, WHAT IS SLATED TO BE DESTROYED CANNOT BE RECREATED IN ANYTHING LESS THAN 200 YEARS EVEN BY THE MASTER GARDENER.

DOCTOR KING SAID FAITH IS TAKING THE FIRST STEP EVEN WHEN YOU CAN'T SEE THE STAIRCASE.

DO YOU HAVE THE FAITH TO TAKE THIS FIRST STEP? ARE YOU GOING TO BE LIKE YOUR PREDECESSORS OF SOME 60 YEARS AGO AND MAKE A DECISION THAT ADVERSELY AFFECTS THE COMMUNITY, HISTORY, ENVIRONMENT, THREATENED SPECIES, TREES, AND MUCH MORE.

IT'S YOUR CHOICE. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. VICKY PAYNE IS NEXT, FOLLOWED BY WILLIAM PAYNE.

>> VICKY PAYNE, 394 PESCADO.

GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS, AND THANK YOU.

ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA, THE NUMBER ONE SMALL CITY IN AMERICA IN 2023 AND 2019,

[01:15:05]

ACCORDING TO SOUTHERN LIVING MAGAZINE AND ITS ICONIC MAGNOLIA STREET.

AS CONSTITUENTS AND CITY TAXPAYERS, WE WANT THE REPUTATION IN MADEIRA NOW AND FOR POSTERITY.

WE'VE GIVEN YOU CURRENT EVIDENCE IN WRITING AND PRESENTATION AND USING THE PUDS OF MADEIRA'S EXISTING PRISTINE COASTAL FOREST.

ONE OF THE VERY FEW LEFT IN THE ENTIRE NATION, ACCORDING TO THE US DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR.

IT SEEMS NECESSARY ACCORDING TO THEM TO PRESERVE THIS FOREST.

FROM MAGNIFICENT SPECIMEN TREES, WHICH WILL BE LOST, BY THE WAY, 44 OF THEM FOR THE PROPOSED ROAD TO AN INCREDIBLE ONE MILE COAST LINE FACING EROSION AS 50 PLUS LOTS ARE CLEARED, AND TO ENDANGERED AND IMPERILED BIRD SPECIES, SEVEN OF THEM UNDER THE BURDEN IN THE ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT.

THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF PROPERTY NEEDS A MAXIMUM CONSERVATION EFFORT.

PREVIOUS CITY ADMINISTRATIONS WROTE VERY EXPLICIT PUD ORDINANCES AND ADMINISTRATIVE PLANS ALLOWING FOR THIS PRESERVATION.

NOT LESS IN REGARDS TO TREES, BUT MORE TO SAVE THE TREES BY THEIR SIZE, THEIR TYPES, THE PRESERVATION CANOPY SIZES, YOUR STEM CONSTRUCTION, YOUR BUFFERS FOR THESE SPECIMEN TREES.

THE FOREST IS ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON WHERE THIS ROAD IS PLACED.

ONCE THE ROADS IN, THAT'S IT FOR THE FOREST.

CURRENT PROPOSED ROAD AND LIGHT SIZES DON'T PROTECT VERY MUCH AT ALL, AND REALLY NEED TO BE RE EXAMINED USING THE EXACT WORKING DETAILS OF THE AGREED UPON PUD.

ALTHOUGH MANY CONCESSIONS TO THE PUDS HAVE BEEN GRANTED REGARDING DEVELOPMENT, BUILDING, THE EXTENSION OF THE FINISHING DEADLINES, THE ROAD PLACEMENT, TREE REMOVALS.

BUT SHOULDN'T IT BE THE CITY THAT ENFORCES THE AGREED UPON PUD BY HAVING THE DEVELOPERS, THE BUILDERS, AND THE CITY MANAGERS STRICTLY ADHERE TO THE PUD? THE CITY TREE ORDINANCES, ALL OF WHICH WERE AGREED UPON 20 YEARS AGO.

SHOULDN'T IT ALSO BE THAT THE PUD IS THE FOUNDATION FOR THE DEVELOPMENT, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE UNIQUENESS OF THIS FORCE, FEWER HOUSES, LARGER TREE LOTS, AND MORE PRESERVATION OF ALL TREES WOULD MAKE THIS A POSSIBLE WINNING SITUATION FOR ALL THAT ARE INVOLVED.

EVEN THE KAPOACA VILLAGE, WHICH IS AN ARCHAEOLOGICAL TREASURE, MAY BE PRESERVED IF THOSE TREES ARE PRESERVED IN THE OLD KAMICS.

WHILE REALIGNING THESE ROADS AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE, THE LOT SIZES, AND BUFFERS THAT ARE NECESSARY IS DEFINITELY WORK.

IT'S WORTH THE EFFORT ON ALL PARTIES.

YOUR ADMINISTRATION DOES HAVE THE POWER TO CONTINUE THE ENVIRONMENTALLY RESPONSIBLE DEVELOPMENT OF THE MEDEIRA.

THEREFORE, WE'RE NOT ASKING ANYTHING NEW, DIFFERENT OR TO BE CHANGED.

WHAT WE'RE ASKING IS THAT YOU USE YOUR FULL AUTHORITY AS ELECTED OF OFFICES TO WORK WITH THE CITY MANAGERS AND THE DEVELOPERS AND OVERSEE THAT THE DEVELOPERS AND THE BUILDERS FULLY ENFORCE THE PUD ORDINANCES, AS WELL AS THE FUTURE LAND USE POLICIES THAT WERE MEANT TO PRESERVE THIS DEVELOPMENT.

PRESERVATION IS REQUIRED IN ALL PHASES, NOT JUST SOME AREAS, AND NOT JUST WHEN IT'S COMPLETE, CONVENIENT, OR SPORADIC. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

PLEASE NO CLAPPING.

MR. WILLIAM PAYNE FOLLOWED BY ANNE DERBY.

>> WILLIAM PAYNE, 394 PESCADO DRIVE.

THE CURRENT MEDIA PLAT ORIGINATED FROM THE MADEIRA FROM A MEDIATOR, A SPECIAL MASTER, WHO STATED THAT BOTH THE DEVELOPER AND THE CITY AGREE TO THESE TERMS. THE REVISED PLAN PUT AN EMPHASIS ON ADDITIONAL PROTECTION OF SPECIMEN TREES, TREE HAMMOCKS, AND FORAGING AREAS FOR WOOD STORKS IN THE FOREST.

THEY DID THIS BY REDUCING THE RIGHT OFWAYS.

THERE'S NO REDUCED WATER RIGHT OFWAYS IN PHASE 3 THAT WE CAN SEE.

CALL FOR REALIGNING ROADS TO REDUCE THE IMPACT OF SIGNIFICANT TREES, AND IT ALLOWS ONLY A BUILDER TO CLEAR THE LOTS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE TREE ORDINANCE.

THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

WE CAN SAVE THOSE TREES BEHIND THE HOMES.

WE CAN SAVE AREAS FOR THE BIRDS AS WELL.

THE CURRENT TREE STUDY MISREPRESENTS THE SIZE AND NUMBERS OF TREES.

A LIVE OAK GROWS APPROXIMATELY FIVE INCHES IN DIAMETER IN 20 YEARS, AND YET OTHERS MAY HAVE BEEN LOST DUE TO HURRICANES.

WE NEED A NEW TREE STUDY FOR YOU TO DETERMINE THE BEST LOCATION FOR THE ROAD AND THE NUMBER AND PLACEMENT OF THE LIGHTS.

WE CAN'T RELY ON WHAT WAS DONE 20 YEARS AGO.

THE STUDY SHOULD PROVIDE AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MANY TREES WILL BE LOST TO INFRASTRUCTURE AND NOT JUST A PICTURE OF WHERE THE TREES ARE AND HOW MANY IS GOING TO BE LOST WITH INDIVIDUAL LIGHTS.

OTHERWISE, HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GREEN TO? CLEARLY, LARGER LOTS OR ADDING BUFFER ZONE BETWEEN LOTS COULD MAKE A LARGE DIFFERENCE IN THE NUMBER OF TREES ACTUALLY PROTECTED.

BASED ON THE OLD DEVELOPER TREE STUDY, WE COUNTED ON THAT MAP THAT YOU JUST SAW OVER 400 LARGE TREES WITHIN PHASE 3 FROM 2004.

YOU CAN SEE A BREAKDOWN BY LOT HERE THAT I PUT UP ON THE SCREEN.

SOME LOTS HAVE AS MANY AS 15 TREES.

WE'RE NOT SACRIFICING SOME TREES FOR DEVELOPMENT.

[01:20:02]

WE'RE SACRIFICING NEARLY ALL THE TREES FOR DEVELOPMENT.

IN EXAMPLE, A 55 INCH TREE, THE CITY REQUIRES PROTECTING WITHIN ABOUT A 32 FOOT DIAMETER CIRCLE.

THIS IS THREE TIMES THE WIDTH OF THE TREE OUT FROM THE TREE.

GIVEN THE PLAN INFRASTRUCTURE AND LOT SIZES WITH LARGE NUMBERS OF LOTS OF TREES ON SOME LOTS, THE VAST MAJORITY OF THESE MAJESTIC TREES WILL BE DOOMED.

ADDITIONALLY, THE CITY ORDINANCE CALLED OUT IN THE PUD IF FOLLOWED CAN AND SHOULD BE USED TO PROTECT ALL THE SMALL TREES BEHIND THE LOT.

THIS SIDE BENEFIT DOES PROTECT ROOSTING AND NESTING BIRDS AS WELL.

THIS IS THE UNIQUE PROPERTY.

AS THE DEVELOPER STATED, CALLING FOR A UNIQUE APPROACH TO DEVELOP WITH THE ENVIRONMENT IN MINE.

THIS IS WHAT THE CURRENT PUD WAS DESIGNED TO DO AND WILL DO IF PERMITTED TO DO SO.

AROUND 300 HOMES HAVE BEEN PURCHASED IN MADEIRA.

WE LOOKED AT THE PUD.

WE LOOKED AT YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

IF YOU FOLLOW THAT, WE WOULD STILL HAVE A FOREST.

WE IMPLORE THAT YOU PROTECT THIS FOREST AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE WITHIN A DEVELOPMENT. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DERBY, FOLLOWED BY NATHAN LOGSON

>> GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS ANN DERBY.

MY ADDRESS IS 125, POWAY.

I LIVE IN MADEIRA, AND I DO NOT BACK UP TO THIS AREA.

THERE'S AN OLD SAYING WHERE THERE IS A WILL, THERE'S A WAY.

I'VE EXPERIENCED THIS IN ST. AUGUSTINE.

THE CORNER OF MAY STREET AND SAN MARCO HAD BEEN PURCHASED BY THE 7-ELEVEN GROUP AND IT WAS TO BE DEVELOPED OF A LARGE GAS STATION WITH FLOODLIGHTS.

IT HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY ZONED COMMERCIAL, SO IT WAS ALLOWED.

A GROUP OF DETERMINED NEIGHBORS FROM NELMAR TERRACE AND FULLERWOOD OPPOSED THIS PROJECT.

THEY ABSOLUTELY DID NOT WANT THIS GAS STATION IN THEIR BACKYARDS.

NO ONE EVER THOUGHT THIS GROUP OF NEIGHBORS WOULD PREVAIL OVER THE 7-ELEVEN GROUP, BUT I DID.

THERE IS NO 7-ELEVEN ON THAT CORNER.

I WAS A PART OF THAT GROUP, AND NOW I SEE THE SAME DETERMINATION FROM MY NEIGHBORS.

THIS IS A VERY SPECIAL AREA IN OUR COMMUNITY.

AS YOU ALL AWARE, THERE ARE NUMEROUS SPECIMEN TREES AND AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF BEAUTIFUL BIRDS.

ONE OF THE BIRDS IS A ROSEATE SPOONBILL.

IT'S ENDANGERED.

IT IS ALSO ST. AUGUSTINE'S CITY BIRD.

REMOVING ALL OF THESE TREES WOULD REMOVE THIS HABITAT.

THE NEGOTIATED PUDS REQUIRE THE DEVELOPER TO DRESS THE SPECIMEN TREES TO ASSURE THE CONTINUAL HEALTHY GROWTH OF SAID TREES.

STEM WALL CONSTRUCTION WAS ALSO REQUIRED FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE TREES.

TO ALLOW THE DEVELOPER TO CLEAR CUT THE LAND WHICH THEY HAVE DONE ALL THROUGH THE MADEIRA COMMUNITY, WOULD DESTROY THIS AREA.

IT WOULD BE A TRAVESTY AND IT WOULD ALSO BE A VIOLATION OF THE PUD THAT OUR COMMISSIONERS HAVE AGREED TO WITH PONT'S DEVELOPMENT.

I'M ASKING YOU TO FIND THAT WAY TODAY. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

NATHAN LAGSON FOLLOWED BY TERRY TAKEN.

>> GOOD EVENING. I'M NATHAN LAGSON.

I LIVE AT 57 POWAY IN MADEIRA, THAT'S ALSO A PROPERTY THAT IS NOT IN THE AREA OR ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AREA WHERE THE TREES ARE.

AT A PREVIOUS MEETING, WE WERE TOLD THAT WE HOMEOWNERS HAD NOT DONE OUR DUE DILIGENCE IN INVESTIGATING WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS WERE.

I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT AND I THOUGHT I DID ALL THE DUE DILIGENCE I NEEDED IN ORDER

[01:25:01]

TO BUILD MY HOME AND I THOUGHT I WAS ON BOARD WITH THAT, BUT THEN I THOUGHT ABOUT IT, I REALLY DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF THE DEVELOPMENT.

I DID MY DUE DILIGENCE OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS AND I LEARNED ABOUT THE PUD, AND I LEARNED ABOUT THE TREE ORDINANCE.

I'M HERE TO ASK YOU AS COMMISSIONERS AND AS A DEVELOPER TO DILIGENTLY DO WHAT'S REQUIRED IN THE PUD.

TO DILIGENTLY DO WHATEVER IS NECESSARY TO FOLLOW THE TREE ORDINANCE.

THE LAST THING I'D SAY, AND FINALLY, IS I WOULD LIKE THE COMMISSIONERS TO REQUIRE ALL THE CITY DEPARTMENTS TO USE DUE DILIGENCE IN THEIR APPROVAL AND PERMITTING PROCESS. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

TERRY TAKEN, FOLLOWED BY BARBARA DEVINE.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON. TERRY TAKEN, I LIVE MISCOO DRIVE, WHICH IS ANOTHER ADDRESS THAT DOES NOT BACK UP ON THE PHASE 3.

HAVING LIVED MOST OF MY LIFE IN THIS CORNER OF FLORIDA, I'VE BEEN WITNESS TO MANY CHANGES.

AS A YOUNG FAIR OLD CHILD, ROAMING IN THE SHALLOWS OF ST. JOHN'S RIVER, I NEVER FEARED ALLIGATORS AS THEY HAD BEEN HUNTED NEARLY TO EXTINCTION.

OUR LEGISLATURES WISELY OUTLAWED HUNTING THEM AND OUR POPULATION HAS REBOUNDED QUITE NICELY.

BUT NOT ALL THE CHANGES TO OUR REGION HAVE BEEN SUCCESS STORIES.

HENRY FLAGLER SET THE TONE FOR FLORIDA AS A DREAM LOCATION FOR NORTHERNERS TO SPEND THEIR WINTERS.

THIS WAS ONE OF THE FACTORS THAT BEGAN THE DEVELOPMENT CURVE THAT HAS PLAGUED OUR STATE EVER SINCE.

ONE OF THE THINGS BILL AT THAT TIME WAS A BEAUTIFUL PASTELE ON GULF COURSE SET ON THE EDGE OF THE MARSHES NORTH OF OUR CITY.

BUT AGAIN, AS IS OFTEN THE CASE, IT WAS OVERSHADOWED BY NEWER COURSES BUILT IN OUR AREA AND FELL ON ECONOMIC HARD TIMES.

I REMEMBER THE COMMUNITY CONCERN WHEN IT EVENTUALLY WAS SOLD FOR RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT AND NEVER DREAM THAT I WOULD END UP LIVING THERE.

BUT HAVING BEEN A RESIDENT OF MADEIRA FOR QUITE SOME TIME, I ONCE AGAIN HAS SEEN MUCH CHANGE.

ELEVEN YEARS AGO, IF YOU WERE TO WALK TO THE AREA OF OUR CURRENT PARK ON TESORO DRIVE IN EVENING, HE WILL BE GREETED TO A CACOPHONY OF SOUNDS CREATED BY THE HUNDREDS OF EGRETS AND ABYSSES ROOSTING IN A WILLOWS OVER A SHALLOW SWAMP.

I'VE GOT IT. WHICH IS NO LONGER THERE.

BEHIND THIS AREA, WERE TWO SHALLOW LAKES TEAMING WITH BIRD LIFE.

THIS IS NOW A BACK YARD.

ON A SOUTH END OF THESE TWO SHALLOW PONDS, WERE TWO BIG BEAUTIFUL LIVE OAK TREES, IN WHICH LARGE NUMBERS OF WOOD STORK, SPOONBILLS, GREAT EGRET AND BLUE HERONS ROOSTED AND NESTED.

IN THIS ONE FRAME, THERE ARE OVER SEVEN GREAT EGRET NEST.

BUT ONCE AGAIN, CHANGE WAS ON THE WAY AS THESE TREES WERE EVENTUALLY REMOVED TO MAKE ROOM FOR HOME SITES.

YOU CAN SEE THE SIZE OF THOSE TREES.

NOT JUST IN OUR OWN BACKYARD, BUT WORLDWIDE, NATIVE CREATURES ARE UNDER PRESSURE FOR THEIR SURVIVAL MAINLY DUE TO HABITAT LOSS.

DO WE REALLY WANT TO BE PART OF THIS? WE ARE NOW AT A JUNCTURE IN A FUTURE OF THIS DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WILL REFLECT THE TRUE CHARACTER OF OUR COMMUNITY.

ST. AUGUSTINE HAS A VERY GOOD TREE AND LANDSCAPE ORDINANCE WHICH SHOULD BE USED MORE THAN JUST A GUIDELINE.

I IMPLORE YOU TO INSIST THAT THE DEVELOPER ABIDE BY THIS ORDINANCE AS IT CONCERNS THE MANY LARGE, BEAUTIFUL TREES AND PHASE 3 OF MADEIRA.

THEY ARE THE KEY TO SURVIVAL OF OUR NATIVE BIRD LIFE AS THERE ARE FEWER AND FEWER PLACES THAT THEY CAN BE DISPLACED TO.

THOUGH SOME OF THE PREVIOUSLY DEVELOPED AREAS IN MADEIRA HAD TO BE STRIPPED TO REMEDIATE THE ARSENIC CONTAMINATION, THIS AREA WAS NOT CONTAMINATED AND AS SUCH, DOES NOT NEED TO BE STRIPPED VEGETATED.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

BARBARA DEVINE, FOLLOWED BY DEBORAH LAGSEN.

>> BARBARA DEVINE, 329 PESCADO DRIVE, AND I DO NOT BACK UP TO THAT AREA EITHER.

I'M HERE TO READ A LETTER THAT WAS SENT TO SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS, I BELIEVE, A WEEK AGO BY ONE OF OUR OTHER NEIGHBORS.

HIS NAME WAS PAUL HAM AND I'D JUST MAKE THIS PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD.

I WON'T READ THE WHOLE THING BECAUSE IT'S TOO LONG.

DEAR CITY COMMISSIONERS, AFTER PERUSING THE AGENDA FOR THE APRIL 22 MEETING CONCERNING MADEIRA,

[01:30:03]

A NUMBER OF RESIDENTS HAVE QUESTIONS RELATING TO THE PLOT OF TREE LOCATIONS SUBMITTED BY PONCE ASSOCIATES WITH THE PREPARATION DATE OF MARCH 28TH, 2024.

THE PLOT DOES NOT APPEAR ACCURATE AND THERE IS REASON TO BELIEVE THE TREE LOCATIONS MAY BE FROM ROUGHLY TWO DECADES AGO.

COURSE REVIEW TODAY OF PHASE 3 FROM THE POND OR THE STREET MAKES IT OBVIOUS THAT MORE LARGE TREES GREATER THAN 20 " IN DIAMETER ARE PRESENT THEN SHOW UP IN THE PLOT.

THE PLOT ALSO SHOWS A DOZEN OR MORE TREES LOCATED IN THE POND.

LOOKING AT THESE TWO SATELLITE IMAGES, FROM 2006 AND 2017, ONE CAN SEE TREES IN WHAT IS NOW THAT POND.

THE TWO AREAS AND RED OVALS IN THE 2006 IMAGE, WAS WHERE THE POND WAS EXPANDED.

MOST OF THE TREES IN THE POND ARE LOCATED IN THOSE AREAS.

A PARTIAL CLOSE UP OF THE PLOT SHOWS FIVE OF 12 OR SO TREES.

[BACKGROUND] IN THE POND ROUGHLY IN THE SAME AREA IN THE CIRCLE OF THE 2017 IMAGE.

ADDITIONALLY, THE PLOT SHOWS NO TREES GREATER THAN 20 INCHES IN DIAMETER IN LOTS 79,80, AND 81.

THIS MAY HAVE BEEN TRUE WHEN THE AREA WAS PART OF THE GOLF COURSE.

BUT THE VISUAL SCAN OF THAT AREA MAKES IT APPARENT.

THE LIKELY ARE 10 OR MORE TREES OF THAT SIZE.

THIS IS NOT THE ONLY INSTANCE BUT MAKES THE POINT.

REGARDLESS OF WHY THE PLOT MAY BE INACCURATE, ANOTHER PLOT IS NEEDED.

RESIDENTS ARE ASKING THAT YOU, THE COMMISSION BE PROVIDED WITH ACCURATE AND UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION THAT RESULTS IN PROPERLY INFORMED DECISIONS.

WITH MORE ACCURATE DATA, THE DEVELOPER MAY POSSIBLY BE PERSUADED TO CREATE A TREE BUFFER OR EASEMENT ALONG ALL OR PART OF THE POND, ESPECIALLY IN THE PENINSULA CIRCLED IN THE RIGHT HAND IMAGE IN THE AREA THAT IS MOST POPULATED BY THE PROTECTED BIRDS.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN 20 YEARS, BOTH IN THE HABITAT AND WHAT PEOPLE HAVE LEARNED ABOUT THIS AREA.

MAYBE THERE'S A CREATIVE WAY THAT THE CITY, DEVELOPER, AND BUILDER COULD WORK TO SAVE SOME OF THIS UNIQUE HABITAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DEBORAH LAGSEN FOLLOWED BY GINA BURRELL.

>> HELLO, I'M DEBORAH LAGSEN.

I LIVE AT 57 PAJARA WAY.

FROM AN EARLIER PETITION THAT WAS DONE, 67% OF THE EXISTING HOMEOWNERS IN MADEIRA SUPPORTED PRESERVATION OF THIS VITAL ECOLOGICAL AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL AREA.

NEITHER I NOR THE MAJORITY OF THESE HOMES BACK UP TO THE AREA IN QUESTION.

BEFORE THE AREA WAS MARKED NO TRESPASSING, WE WOULD WALK BACK THROUGH THIS NATURAL AREA WITH OUR DOG KAI, YOU WOULD JUST GET AN INNER PIECE FROM THE TOWERING OAKS AND THE BEAUTIFUL HAMMOCKS.

YOU WOULD ALSO WONDER WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS AREA BACK YEARS AND YEARS AGO AND WHAT HISTORY COULD TELL US.

PLUS KAI LOVED IT.

BUT BEFORE A MODERN DEVELOPMENT WITH SO FEW AMENITIES, THIS IS A UNIQUE SLICE OF OLD FLORIDA.

TO PRESERVE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE OF THIS AREA, WE REQUEST THAT THE CURRENT PUDS BE ENFORCED BY THE CITY AND ADHERED TO BY THE DEVELOPERS. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GINA BURRELL, FOLLOWED BY JOSE RIERA.

>> HELLO MAYOR AND COMMISSIONERS.

GINA BURRELL 27 SEMINOLE DRIVE IN ST. AUGUSTINE.

I'M A MEMBER OF THE STREET TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE, BUT I'M NOT REPRESENTING THEM.

I'M REPRESENTING MYSELF TODAY.

I'M ALSO SPEAKING FOR THE EARTH.

HAPPY EARTH DAY.

THIS IS THE RIGHT DAY TO HELP THE PLANET BY PROTECTING AND SAVING TREES IN THE MADEIRA PROPERTIES.

WE ALL KNOW THAT THE PLANET IS HEATING UP IN RECORD TEMPERATURES.

TREES HELP TO COOL THE PLANET.

YOU WOULD THINK EVERYBODY WOULD KNOW THAT.

WE ARE TALKING HERE ABOUT 30 ACRES OF LAND IN MADEIRA, THAT THE US DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, YOU'VE ALREADY HEARD THAT IN A LETTER DATED IN FEBRUARY 2024, THAT THIS PROPERTY IS ONE OF THE MOST PRISTINE COASTAL FORESTS IN THE US,

[01:35:02]

AND THAT'S REALLY QUITE AN ACCOMPLISHMENT.

THIS ACREAGE CONTAINS ABOUT 200 LIVE OAKS, 35 INCHES TO 55 INCHES DPH AND SOME 200 YEARS OLD.

MAGNOLIA, 18 INCHES TO 26 INCHES DBH, WHICH ARE SIGNIFICANT PROTECTED TREES AND MANY OTHERS.

THERE ARE ROSEATED SPOON BILLS, WHICH YOU'VE HEARD, WHICH IS OUR OFFICIAL BIRD, ROOSTING AND POSSIBLY NESTING HERE AND ALSO THE ENDANGERED WOOD STORKS AND SOME OTHER WADING BIRDS.

I AM ASKING THE COMMISSION TO SAVE THESE TREES AND THE ACREAGE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, GINA.

>> THANK YOU, GINA.

>> JOSE RIERA FOLLOWED BY SUSAN CREEK.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON. JOSE RIERA, 133 PARANZA TRACE.

I DON'T LIVE IN ANYWHERE IN THE AREA THAT IS IN QUESTION.

I WANT TO SHOW YOU THIS WHICH IS BEING SHOWN ON THE MADEIRA WEBSITE BY THE DEVELOPER.

I WANT YOU TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PARTICULAR AREA, WHICH IS PASARELA STREET.

NOTICE HOW THIS IS GOING AROUND AND LOOKS LIKE IT USED TO BE LIKE AN ISLAND.

THIS PARTICULAR CASE, HERE'S A PICTURE OF WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN 2016.

NOTICE HOW THE ROAD WAS GOING AROUND ON AN ISLAND OF A BUNCH TREES, 2017.

THEN IN JANUARY 2021, WHEN I FIRST MOVED INTO THE AREA, BEAUTIFUL AREA.

THERE WAS THE ROAD GOING AROUND AND THEN THE BUNCH OF TREES THAT WERE THERE.

THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IN 2022.

LOOK AT THE CLEARING THAT TOOK PLACE.

WE ALL CAME OVER HERE AND WE ASKED THE COMMISSION WHAT TOOK PLACE AND WE WERE RAILROADED BY THEIR LAWYER INDICATING THAT THE TREES WERE REPORTED BECAUSE THEY WERE INVASIVE SPECIES AND THE SOIL WAS CONTAMINATED.

NO ENVIRONMENTAL REPORT WAS EVER PRESENTED THAT I KNOW OF.

JANUARY OF 2023, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

NOTICE THAT THE ROAD IS ACTUALLY STRAIGHT INSTEAD OF HAVING THE ISLANDS OR THE TREES.

HERE ARE MY QUESTIONS.

WHY WERE THESE TREES REMOVED, CONTRARY TO THE ORIGINAL PUD THAT WAS PRESENTED IN 2004? NUMBER 2, WHERE IS ENVIRONMENTAL REPORT TO SUBSTANTIATE THE REMOVAL OF THOSE TREES, AND I MEAN A RECENT ONE, LIKE 2021, NOT IN 2004.

NUMBER 3, WHO MADE THE DETERMINATION THAT THE NATIVE PALM TREES AND LIVE OAKS THAT WERE ON THE PROPOSED ISLAND ON PASARELA DRIVE ARE INVASIVE SPECIES, AS INDICATED BY THE LEGAL COUNSEL AT ONE OF THE MEETINGS IN 2022? FINALLY, I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THE LEGAL COUNSEL WILL TRY TO PRESENT THE RESIDENTS OF MADEIRA AS NEW RESIDENTS WHO DO NOT KNOW THE HISTORY AND THE WORD DELUSIONAL.

PLEASE DON'T LET THE COUNSEL BLIND YOU WITH THE MARTHA MITCHELL EFFECT.

PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT YOU VERIFY THE FACTS.

TODAY'S EARTH DAY. PRESENT MY CASE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SUSAN CREEK, FOLLOWED BY MICHAEL MCDONALD.

MICHAEL MCDONALD IS THE LAST SPEAKER CARD I HAVE. WE HAVE MORE COMING.

>> THERE'S ANOTHER CARD.

>> SUSAN CREEK, IS SHE STILL HERE? SUSAN CREEK IS NO LONGER HERE.

MICHAEL MCDONALD, FOLLOWED BY MARCIA CHANCE.

>> MICHAEL MCDONALD, I LIVE IN THE WOOD.

CAN YOU HEAR ME? SORRY ABOUT THAT. MICHAEL MCDONALD, I LIVE IN THE WINDSWEPT DAKERS NEIGHBORHOOD, NOWHERE NEAR DOWNTOWN, BUT I HEARD OF THIS ENDEAVOR, AND I DECIDED TO MAKE MYSELF PRESENT.

I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE EVER BEEN TO ONE OF THESE MEETINGS, AND I APPRECIATE YOU GUYS' ATTENTION.

I CAN TELL THAT YOU GUYS ARE VERY ALERT AND IT'S SATISFYING TO KNOW THAT YOU GUYS ARE VERY ALERT AND PAYING ATTENTION, WHICH IS A NICE THING WHEN YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE PRESENTING THEIR FACTS AND PRESENTING A WELL LOGICAL CASES.

THOSE ARE RELEVANT CASES WITH PERTINENT FACTS, DETAILED, ORCHESTRATED AND THEY HAD THE GUMPTION TO COME UP AND STAND IN FRONT OF YOU GUYS.

I HOPE YOU GUYS GIVE EVERY ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THEIR CREDIBILITY AND THEIR MESSAGE.

I HOPE YOU GUYS REALLY TRULY INTERPRET THOSE MESSAGES IN THE WAY THEY NEED TO BE INTERPRETED BECAUSE I CAN TELL THAT THEY'RE WORKING.

THE ATTORNEYS HAVE BEEN SCRIBBLING DOWN THEIR REBUTTALS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO REBUTTAL BEST.

[01:40:06]

THESE ARE THE SAME ATTORNEYS THAT ARE DEVELOPING ST. JOHN'S COUNTY IN A MASS RATE.

I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THESE PEOPLE THERE.

I SEE THEM AT THE COUNTY BOARD DOING EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO CLEAR TREES AND MITIGATE REZONE HIGH DENSITY.

I COULD I COULD GO ON ON WITH PHRASES PER SE.

THEY TRULY ARE THE DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY AT ST. JOHN'S COUNTY.

WHAT I NOTICED FROM THIS NEIGHBORHOOD IS THAT THERE'S MAYBE ONE HOUSE BEING BUILT IN THE BACKSIDE OF PHASE 2 RIGHT NOW.

IT DOESN'T SEEM NECESSARY TO KNOCK DOWN 30 ACRES OR EVEN MAKE THAT A FEASIBLE PHASE RIGHT NOW.

THERE'S TWO PARCELS THAT MAY BE UNDER CONSTRUCTION TOPS.

THERE'S ONE THAT'S WELL UNDER CONSTRUCTION, IT'S GETTING STUCK NOW, BUT THERE'S NO HOMES BEING BUILT IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD. THERE'S NONE.

THEY'RE NOT GETTING BUILT.

SO WHY WOULD YOU CONSIDER ADDING ANOTHER PHASE.

LOOK AT THE AERIAL MAPS OF THAT.

THERE'S THREE I THINK THERE'S MAYBE TWO HOUSES ON THE WATERFRONT.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE MARKET FOR IT.

WAIT FOR THE MARKET TO REBOUND.

YOU HAVEN'T FILLED YOUR MULTIFAMILY, YOU HAVEN'T BUILT THE PARK YET.

IT'S HOLD THESE DEVELOPERS ACCOUNTABLE.

I TRULY HOPE YOU GUYS DO. THEY HAVEN'T BUILT THE PARK.

MAYBE CONSIDER USING THAT 40 ACRES OR THAT 30 ACRES AS THE PARK AND BUILD YOUR MULTIFAMILY, SAVE THAT TREE AND PUBLICIZE THAT YOU'RE PROTECTING TREES, THAT COULD BE YOUR MOTIVE, PROTECT THAT 30 ACRES OF TREES AND YOU MIGHT FILL THE REST OF YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY AT SOME BIRD HABITAT IN YOUR AREA.

BECAUSE I'M SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS OBVIOUSLY THERE IS SECTIONS THAT ARE PROTECTED, BUT IT'S THE MIGRATORY PATTERNS THAT IF THEY DEEMED THAT THAT WAS A GOOD SPOT TO LAND, IT MIGHT NOT BE FOR ANOTHER FIVE MONTHS, THEY'RE GOING TO COME BACK.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MARCIA CHANCE IS THE LAST SPEAKER CARD THAT I HAVE.

>> MARCIA CHANCE FOUR 15 ARREDONDO AVENUE.

AS YOU ALL KNOW, THE MADEIRA CONSERVATION PARCEL WAS INHABITED FROM EARLY PREHISTORIC TIMES THROUGH AT LEAST THE 1940S.

THE MOST IMPORTANT MOST OUTSTANDING ELEMENTS THAT WE KNOW ABOUT ARE THE NATIVE AMERICAN VILLAGE OF CAPUACU FROM THE CONTACT PERIOD.

THE SECOND SPANISH PERIOD, SANCHEZ HOMESTEAD.

IT WAS ALSO UTILIZED BY THE US EXPEDITIONARY FORCES DURING THE PATRIOTS WAR OF 1812, LIES DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO FORT MOSE, WHICH WAS ATTACKED AND OVERTAKEN BY THE AMERICANS AND THEN RETAKEN BY THE BLACK SPANISH SOLDIERS, SO THERE HAD TO BE A LOT OF ACTION GOING ON RIGHT IN THERE.

THE SIGNIFICANT OCCUPATIONS THAT WE KNOW AT THIS TIME RELATE TO THE NATIVE AMERICANS, THE SPANISH, THE MINORCANS, THE AMERICAN PATRIOTS/ AND THE BLACK SPANISH INHABITANTS OF FORT MOSE.

THESE USES OF THE TRACT ARE REPRESENTED BY FIVE ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITES.

THE FIVE ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITES ARE UNDER THE TREES.

THAT'S WHY I'M HERE. IF YOU PROTECT THE TREES, YOU WILL ALSO BE PROTECTING THE REMAINS OF THOSE ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITES.

NOW, THOSE SITES HAVE BEEN MITIGATED, WHICH MEANS THAT THE STATE HAS APPROVED DEVELOPMENT ACCORDING TO THEIR REGULATIONS, BUT IT ALSO MEANS THAT A PART OF EACH SITE HAS BEEN EXCAVATED.

THE REMAINDER OF EACH SITE IS STILL THERE.

LET'S SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING ELSE I WANT TO SAY.

MAINLY, JUST THAT THE PIECES OF THOSE SITES THAT STILL REMAIN, WHICH COULD CONTAIN WHO KNOWS WHAT? OTHER SIGNIFICANT ELEMENTS, OTHER SIGNIFICANT PORTIONS WHICH WERE NOT DISCOVERED ARE STILL UNDER THOSE TREES.

WOULDN'T IT BE THE COOLEST THING IF THIS COULD BE TURNED INTO A PARK TO PROTECT THE VERY SIGNIFICANT CULTURAL RESOURCES THAT ARE THERE AND THE VERY SIGNIFICANT TREE CANOPY, JUST A THOUGHT.

BUT I HOPE THAT YOU ALL WILL DO WHATEVER YOU CAN WITH THE TREE ORDINANCE, KEEPING THIS IN MIND. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. I THINK THIS IS NOT A REZONING.

I I HOPE NOBODY HAS THE IMPRESSION IS ANYTHING BUT INFORMATIONAL AND OPPORTUNITY FOR THE COMMISSION TO

[01:45:01]

GET CLARIFICATION ON QUESTIONS THAT WE HAD AFTER A LOT OF THE NEIGHBORS SHOWED UP AND STARTED SPEAKING ABOUT THIS AND MAKING PHONE CALLS AND WRITING LETTERS.

WE WERE TRYING TO GET CLARIFICATION ON ANY KIND OF AN UPDATE ON WHERE WE ARE.

I THINK A LOT OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE HAD WERE CLEARED UP HAVE BEEN CLEARED UP, AT LEAST IN MY MIND.

I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE THAT ARE OUTSTANDING.

BUT I'D LIKE TO START WITH COMMISSIONER SPRINGFIELD AND SEE IF WE'LL JUST GO AROUND THE TABLE AND SEE WHAT WE'VE GOT.

>> GREAT. THANK YOU, MAYOR.

I DO HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS ONE IS, I LIVE IN NORTH CITY.

THE HOUSE THAT I LIVE IN WAS BUILT IN 1999, AND IT'S ON ONE HALF ACRE, AND WE HAVE OVER 12 LIVE OAK TREES THAT ARE LARGER THAN 25, AND WE HAVE OVER 10 THAT ARE OVER 25, WE HAVE OVER 20 LIVE OAKS.

THE HOUSE WAS BUILT WITH CONSIDERATION FOR THOSE TREES.

I THINK IF A DEVELOPER WANTS TO BUILD A HOUSE HAS A LOT OF LIVE OAKS, IT CAN BE SAVED.

I ALSO LIVED AT MAGNOLIA DUNES AND ASTASIA DUNES AREA, AND ALL OF THOSE DEVELOPERS DEVELOP THOSE HOUSES WITH THE CANOPY OVER THE ROADS INTACT AND ALSO WITH THE ROADS SAVED, AND JUST TO COMMENT, I AM DEFINITELY FOR TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE THIS WORK TO SAVE TREES.

ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAVE AND IT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO ANSWER TONIGHT, BUT I WAS WONDERING IF WE CAN INSIST ON A NEW TREE STUDY AND IF WE CAN INSIST ON THE NEW TREE STUDY TO BE USED IN THE DEVELOPMENT, AND I KNOW WE PROBABLY CAN'T GET AN ANSWER ON THAT TONIGHT, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING I WOULD LIKE TO SEE AN ANSWER TO.

I WOULD LIKE TO CONGRATULATE ALL THE RESIDENTS THERE BECAUSE THE WORST THING FOR THAT PROPERTY IS FOR IT TO REMAIN A GOLF COURSE.

TAKING THAT GOLF COURSE OUT, IT WAS A WONDERFUL THING AS FAR AS THE ENVIRONMENT AND PROTECTING THOSE TREES.

I HOPE THAT THE RESIDENTS BECAUSE OF THEIR NOW INTEREST IN PRESERVING WOULD BEGIN TO ZERO ESCAPE AND QUIT USING THE FERTILIZERS ON THEIR YARDS AND MAYBE ASK FOR LIVE OAK TREES TO BE PLANTED IN THEIR YARD.

WHETHER WE SAVE ALL THOSE TREES OR NOT, THAT WOULD BE A GOOD THING FOR US ALL TO DO.

I THINK THAT'S MY NOTES THAT ARE SCATTERED.

THE STORY I TELL ALL THE TIME I WAS I GOT A JOB AS AN ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATOR AT A BEAUTIFUL 150 ACRES SITE, AND I GOT TO DRIVE OUT TO THIS SITE IN 1979 WITH MY BOSS, WHO IS THE ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS, AND THIS SITE WAS COVERED WITH POCKET GOPHERS.

NOW, WE DON'T HAVE MANY POCKET GOPHERS AROUND HERE, BUT POCKET GOPHERS ARE IN THE SANDHILL OVER WEST OF HERE, AND THEY HAVE MOUNDS OF SAND ALL OVER AS THEIR HABITAT.

AND WE PULLED INTO THE PROPERTY AND THE ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT SAID, FIRST THING WE OUGHT TO DO IS KILL ALL THOSE POCKET GOPHERS.

HERE I WAS BEING INTRODUCED AS AN ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATOR.

I DIDN'T CORRECT HIM BECAUSE I WAS A FEAR OF LOSING MY JOB RIGHT AWAY, BUT I DID LATER.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT HAS TO DO WITH SAVING THESE TREES.

BUT IT'S A GREAT STORY.

I JUST WANT TO ENCOURAGE THE DEVELOPER TO DO WHAT HE CAN WITHIN O R RIGHTS FOR US TO PROTECT THE TREES AND FOR HIS TO PLANT MORE TREES AND TO PROTECT WHAT TREES YOU CAN.

>> MR. BLONDER.

>> YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE ME FOLLOW THAT?

>> YEAH. WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT GO POCKET GROUP.

>> I'M NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT POCKET GROUP BEFORE I'LL TALK ABOUT TREES.

I'M JUST GOING TO START BY SAYING THAT I'M REALLY, REALLY HEARTENED, ESPECIALLY ON EARTH DAY AS AN ECOLOGIST TO HEAR SO MANY PEOPLE BE SO IMPASSIONED ABOUT PROTECTING TREES.

IT GIVES ME A LOT OF HOPE.

I DEFINITELY THINK THAT A NEW TREE SURVEY SHOULD BE A REQUIREMENT.

WE DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION WE NEED IN ORDER TO BE NEITHER DOES A DEVELOPER TO BE ABLE TO ROUTE THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN A WAY THAT WILL AVOID THE MOST TREES.

CERTAINLY, 20 YEARS IS A GOOD LONG TIME FOR TREES TO GAIN SIZE.

I THINK THAT IS A MINIMUM SHOULD BE A STARTING POINT.

I THINK I'M GOING TO PUT OUR CITY ATTORNEY ON THE SPOT BECAUSE YOU ARE HERE TO ADVISE US AS A COMMISSION.

THIS IS A VERY COMPLICATED DEVELOPMENT.

THE PROCESS, THE LITIGATION,

[01:50:03]

THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT, THE HISTORY.

WHAT OPTIONS GIVEN STATE THE TAKING LAWS AND THE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS LAWS, THE PROPERTY RIGHTS LAWS, WHAT OPTIONS DO WE HAVE? WE'RE NOT HERE TO MAKE A DECISION.

IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING WE DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE ANY DECISIONS BASED ON WHERE WE ARE BUT COULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT AND THANK YOU.

>> CERTAINLY. FLORIDA OVERALL VERY MUCH PRIORITIZES PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS EXPLICITLY IN STATE LAW.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT THIS CITY COMMISSION DID OR EVEN THE COUNTY COMMISSION OR ANY LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

THAT IS A POLICY DECISION OF VARIOUS STATE LEGISLATURES OVER TIME.

IT IS EXPLICIT. WE ARE ALSO REQUIRED TO PUT IN OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT WE MAINTAIN PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.

NONE OF THAT IS A CHOICE OF THE FOLKS IN THIS ROOM NOW OR IN PRIOR YEARS, THAT'S SIMPLY STATE POLICY, THAT WE ARE REQUIRED TO FOLLOW.

AS PART OF THAT, THERE'S A NUMBER OF STATE STATUTES THAT AGAIN GIVE PRIMACY TO PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.

YOU'LL HEAR ABOUT THE BIRD HARRIS ACT AND SO ON, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SECTIONS AND SUBSECTIONS OF STATE LAW THAT PROTECT PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.

WHETHER FOLKS IN THIS ROOM AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THAT, THAT IS WHERE WE ARE IN TERMS OF STATE LAW.

>> I THINK I WASN'T CLEAR. THIS IS MY FAULT.

WHAT OPTIONS DO WE HAVE AS A CITY COMMISSION, IF ANY, TO EXERT ANY CHANGE OR INFLUENCE, LIKE I DON'T KNOW, RELOCATE THE PARK, ANY OF THOSE TYPES OF IDEAS.

DO WE HAVE ANY OPTIONS?

>> THE ONLY WAY YOU WOULD HAVE AN OPTION IS IF THE PROPERTY OWNER ENTERTAINED THE IDEA OF HAVING A CHANGE TO THE PUD.

WE'VE JUST LIVED THROUGH LITIGATION THAT THE CITY WAS INVOLVED IN WHERE THE CITY ATTEMPTED TO INFLUENCE, YES, THAT'S A GOOD WORD.

INFLUENCE, NEGOTIATE, USE ANY OF THOSE WORDS TO MODIFY AN EXISTING PUD, AND THE CITY WAS UNSUCCESSFUL IN THAT.

FOLKS MAY BE THAT ARE INVOLVED IN MADERA AREN'T AS FAMILIAR WITH WHAT WE'VE LIVED THROUGH AS A CITY IN TERMS OF THAT LITIGATION.

IF THE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER, THE DEVELOPER THAT HAS THOSE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS, THAT I SAID, STATE LAW HAS SAID, PRIVATE PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS ARE IN PRIMACY IN THIS STATE AND THEN WE ARE REQUIRED TO PROTECT THAT.

IF THE PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER CHOOSES TO MODIFY THAT PUD, NOW IT TRIGGERS THE NEGOTIATION.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU GET YOUR WAY AS YOU JUST LIVED THROUGH IN ANOTHER PROJECT.

IT IS A NEGOTIATION. THERE'S THAT.

IF YOU ASK ME ANYWHERE IN THE CITY, CAN THE CITY COMMISSION CHOOSE TO CONDEMN PRIVATE PROPERTY THROUGH EMINENT DOMAIN? SURE. YES. YOU HAVE THAT AUTHORITY.

ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT IN FLORIDA, I'LL SAY FORCIBLY, I DON'T MEAN IT LITERALLY WITH GUNS AND TANKS, BUT THROUGH LEGAL MEASURES, CONDEMN ANYONE'S PROPERTY.

THEY CAN CONDEMN MY PROPERTY, THEY CAN CONDEMN ANY OF YOUR PROPERTIES FOR A PUBLIC PROJECT.

YES, THAT IS AN OPTION.

THAT WOULD REALLY BE IN TERMS OF THE TOTALITY OF THE LAW THAT'S AVAILABLE TO US RIGHT NOW WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY THE ONLY OPTION THAT YOU COULD AND I'LL USE LOOSELY THE TERM FORCIBLY TAKE SOME PRIVATE LAND AND TURN IT INTO A PARK AND SO ON.

THERE'S ALWAYS THE OPTION OF FOLKS NEGOTIATING, BUT THAT HAS TO BE WILLING PARTNERS AS WE'VE LEARNED JUST RECENTLY IN ANOTHER PUD.

>> CAN WE REQUIRE A NEW TREE SURVEY.

>> THAT'S A MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION.

I THINK WE'LL CERTAINLY LOOK INTO IT AND SEE WHAT THE PUD WAS LUCY GOOSEY LANGUAGE TO SOME DEGREE ON SOME THINGS, BUT THERE IS A CONCEPTUAL SITE PLAN INCLUDED THAT DOES SHOW INFRASTRUCTURE.

I THINK WHAT I HEARD FROM THE DEVELOPER IS THEY DON'T DISPUTE THAT WHEN INDIVIDUAL LOTS COME FORWARD, THEY WILL HAVE TO HAVE THOSE TREE STUDIES AND COMPLY WITH OUR TREE ORDINANCE.

I THINK I HEARD THEY UNDERSTAND THAT AND DON'T DISAGREE.

THE MAIN ISSUE SEEMS TO BE WHERE THE ROADS ARE.

I BELIEVE IT'S ALREADY GONE THROUGH PRELIMINARY PLAT REVIEW, BUT THERE MAY BE SOME ABILITY THERE TO SEE IF WE CAN GET MORE CLARITY ON WHERE THE RETENTION PONDS AND OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE HAS TO BE.

[01:55:02]

THERE MAY BE SOME GIVE THERE.

>> THAT IS SOMETHING I'D LIKE TO URGE THE STAFF TO EXPLORE AND REPORT BACK TO THE CITY COMMISSION ON THAT LATTER PART OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> VICE MAYOR.

>> WELL, THAT'S THREE CHECKS.

I ALSO HAD NEW TREE SURVEY WRITTEN DOWN 20 YEARS IS A LONG TIME FOR US TO EVEN KNOW WHICH TREES WE NEED TO PROTECT AFTER 20 YEARS BUT MY NOTES ALSO ARE A LITTLE BIT JUMBLED GOING THROUGH ALL THE PEOPLE SPEAKING.

I'D LIKE TO SAY HAPPY EARTH DAY TO EVERYBODY.

IT'S A NICE DAY TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS, TRYING TO RESOLVE AND SAVE TREES.

I'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF WORK ON RESILIENCY, SO PART OF IT IS THE TREES AND KEEPING THAT EVERYBODY COOLER AND ALL OF THAT STUFF. IT'S ALL CONNECTED.

I WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU FOR EVERYBODY WEARING PINK TODAY.

I DIDN'T THAT DIDN'T MISS ME.

I NOTICED A LOT OF PINK OUT THERE FOR THE ROOST SPOON BILLS.

I THINK THAT IN OUR PACKET, WE HAVE THE TR1, WHICH IS A PLAN FOR THE TREES, THAT'S BEEN COLOR CODED IN YELLOW AND GREEN, AND IT DOESN'T SHOW 44 TREES IN THAT AREA THAT WOULD BE REMOVED, WHICH WAS BROUGHT UP CONSIDERABLY LESS THAN THAT BUT IF WE DO GET A CURRENT TREE SURVEY, IT MAY JUMP IT UP A LITTLE BIT.

I'M HOPEFUL THAT THE DEVELOPER HE SPOKE TONIGHT WANTING TO AND ACKNOWLEDGING THE FACT THAT THE TREES ARE LET'S SEE.

I'M JUST UP.

THAT THE BUILDER WILL WORK TO PRESERVE THE TREES AND THE CANOPY AS THE STREETS GO THROUGH.

THAT'S SUCH A BEAUTIFUL THING OF OLD FLORIDA.

WHEN YOU SEE IT, YOU REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

IF HE COULD DO THAT WOULD BE REALLY GREAT.

IT IS THE BEAUTY THAT ADDS VALUE, AND HE ALREADY MENTIONED THIS VALUE TO THE DEVELOPMENT THAT WE ALL SHARE AND CERTAINLY GIVES HABITAT TO THESE PRECIOUS ANIMALS.

I WAS ENCOURAGED TO KNOW ABOUT THE STEM WALL CONSTRUCTION SINCE MY BACKGROUND IS ARCHITECTURE.

THAT WILL HELP. THAT WILL TREMENDOUSLY HELP.

I'M VERY HAPPY ABOUT THAT.

ONE QUESTION I HAD FOR THE DEVELOPER AND CERTAINLY, I DON'T EXPECT NUMBERS, BUT HE MENTIONED THAT HE MADE A GOOD FAITH EFFORT IN PURCHASING OR SELLING THE PROPERTY.

I'M WONDERING HOW FAR APART WERE THEY AND I THINK THERE WAS AN OFFER FROM THE STATE COMING UP WITH SOME MONEY.

CERTAINLY WE THE CITY COULDN'T PUT MONEY IN IT, EVEN THOUGH IT'S CITY, BUT IT'S PRIVATE GATED, SO YOU UNDERSTAND THE CITY CAN'T PUT MONEY INTO A PARK THERE, BUT IF THERE WAS ENOUGH TIME, THERE WAS A GENTLEMAN HERE SAYING A LOT OF THE DEVELOPMENT ON THE NEXT PHASE HASN'T EVEN BUILT OUT YET, WOULD SAVING A LITTLE TIME TO SEE IF MONEY COULD BE RAISED FROM THE STATE TO PURCHASE THAT.

IF IT IS THE VALUE THAT THEY TALK ABOUT AS BEING ONE OF THE GREATEST FORESTS, IF IT IS OF THIS VALUE AND THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL ITEMS ARE THERE, IT MIGHT BE THE BEST THING TO INVESTIGATE THAT.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING THE DEVELOPER COULD SPEAK TO.

I DON'T WANT TO PUT ANYBODY ON THE CARPET HERE, BUT I JUST WANTED TO KNOW IF THERE'S ANY HOPE IN THAT.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME AND SPEAK?

>> YOU'D YOU LIKE TO INVITE HIM TO SPEAK?

>> WHAT?

>> WERE YOU INVITING HIM TO SPEAK?

>> YES, I WAS.

>> CAN WE GO THROUGH ALL THE COMMISSIONERS FIRST BEFORE.

>> WOULD YOU SIT RIGHT THERE? I WON'T BE LONG HERE.

>> I GUESS THAT IS THE END.

CYNTHIA FOR YOU.

>> THERE WAS A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WERE SAID BY THE RESIDENTS.

I ALSO TALKED TO MISS PAYNE AT THE LAST COMMISSION MEETING.

I DID FOLLOW UP AND GO OUT THERE TO MADEIRA MYSELF,.

[02:00:02]

I WAS ACCOMPANIED BY THE CITY MANAGER JUST SO I COULD SEE THE AREA BECAUSE I LIKE TO KNOW WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS WHEN A LOT OF PEOPLE TAKE IT UPON THEMSELVES TO COME OUT TO SEE US.

TWENTY YEARS IS A LONG TIME, AND I KNOW I HAD A TREE IN MY YARD AND IT GREW A WHOLE LOT IN TWO YEARS, A WHOLE LOT.

IT GREW ACTUALLY TWO FEET AND IT WAS WIDE AND DIAMETER.

I GUESS THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL IT.

I CAN ONLY IMAGINE 20 YEARS HOW MUCH THESE TREES HAVE GROWN AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE COME BEFORE US AND TALKED ABOUT THE HOUSES AND TALKED ABOUT THE ANIMALS AND THE BIRDS AND DIFFERENT THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

I COULD ALMOST VISUALIZE FOR A MOMENT THAT IF I LIVED IN THOSE HOUSES AND LOOKING OVER AT WHAT APPEARS TO BE A BEAUTIFUL FOREST, HOW I WOULD NOT WANT TO SEE THAT GONE THE NEXT TIME I LOOKED OUT MY WINDOW.

I HAVE TOTAL EMPATHY FOR YOU AND I TOTALLY RESPECT ALL OF YOU FOR COMING HERE AND EXPRESSING YOUR CONCERNS.

I WOULD HOPE THAT THE DEVELOPER IS HEARING YOU AS MUCH AS WE ARE HEARING YOU AND MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER MAKING THAT A PARK.

THERE WAS A LOT OF AREAS THAT WERE BEING WORKED ON A LOT OF HOUSES THAT I ALSO SAW THAT WERE BEING BUILT, AND PERHAPS HE CAN GO IN ANOTHER DIRECTION.

I DON'T KNOW THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HE HAS TO DECIDE BECAUSE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE AS A COMMISSION CAN'T DECIDE FOR HIM.

I ALSO WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THEM SAYING THAT THE PUD EXPIRED IN 2014 AND HOW COME IT WASN'T REDONE, THAT A LETTER WAS JUST WRITTEN AND PUSHED IT OUT TO 2016.

I WASN'T ON THE COMMISSION AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME, BUT I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW IT COULD HAVE BEEN WHY THERE'S A CONFLICT IN THE DATES.

I AGREE WITH MY FELLOW COMMISSIONERS THAT A TREE SURVEY DEFINITELY NEEDS TO BE DONE TO SEE WHERE THE LARGER TREES ARE.

IF THE DEVELOPER IGNORES OUR CONCERNS AND MOVES FORWARD, THAT THEY DO WORK AROUND THAT AS FAR AS IF THEY DO DEVELOP THAT AREA.

I THINK WE ARE A BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY, AND I THINK THAT WE WORK BETTER TOGETHER.

I BELIEVE THAT THERE'S ENOUGH LAND FROM WHAT I SAW WHEN I TRAVELED OUT THERE THAT YOU COULD STILL GET A LOT OF HOUSES DONE WITHOUT TOUCHING THAT PARTICULAR LAND.

BUT AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE TO LIVE WITH.

ON THAT NOTE, I'M DONE. THANK YOU.

>> TO CLARIFY WHAT THE QUESTION THAT COMMISSIONER GARRIS ASKED ABOUT THE PUD EXTENSION IN 2016.

I'VE HEARD IT A COUPLE OF TIMES TONIGHT.

CAN WE TAKE ANOTHER STAB AT IT? I KNOW ELLEN AVERY SMITH TRIED TO CLARIFY IT.

BUT WOULD YOU PLEASE TRY TO CLARIFY ONCE AND FOR ALL THAT THIS HOW THE EXTENSION HAPPENED IN 2016?

>> THERE WAS A PHASING SCHEDULE IN THE PUD AND THE PLANNING TERM WOULD BE CONSIDERED IT FELL OUT OF PHASE, BUT BASICALLY IT EXPIRED.

CLOSE TO THE SAME TIME, WE HAD TO AMEND THE UNDERLYING LAND USE OF THE PROPERTY.

WITHOUT GOING DOWN A RABBIT HOLE HERE, THERE'S A LAND USE IS DESIGNATED FOR EVERY PROPERTY IN FLORIDA.

THERE'S ZONING OVERLAID ON THAT THINGS.

THE LAND USE IS ESTABLISHED BY THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BUT APPROVED BY THE STATE AND THEN THE ZONING HAS TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THE LAND USE, CORRECT?

>> TO HAVE TO MATCH.

>> WHEN WE ANEXED THE PROPERTY, IT HAD COUNTY LAND USE AND A CITY ZONING CATEGORY.

THE COUNTY UPDATED THEIR COMP PLAN AND DID NOT INCLUDE MADEIRA ON THEIR FUTURE LAND USE MAP.

WE HAD TO ASSIGN CITY LAND USE CATEGORIES TO IT AT THE SAME TIME.

IT HAD FALLEN OUT OF PHASE, SO WE HAD TO REESTABLISH A PHASING SCHEDULE.

AT THAT TIME, THE DEVELOPER AND THE CITY COMMISSION AGREED NOT TO HAVE SUB PHASES AND SAY, PHASE 2 IS GOING TO BE DONE IN THIS YEAR AND PHASE 3 IS GOING TO BE DONE IN THIS YEAR.

THEY JUST SAID THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY WILL BE DEVELOPED AS ONE PHASE, WHICH ALSO IS A SOURCE OF CONFUSION WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PHASE 3.

>> HE SAYS, HE'S USING PHASE 3, WHICH IS ADDING TO THE CONFUSION.

>> THAT'S ADDING TO THE CONFUSION.

BUT T'S DEVELOPED AS ONE PHASE AND THERE WAS AN EXPIRATION DATE FOR THAT ONE PHASE.

ON TOP OF THAT, EVERY TIME THERE'S A STATE OF EMERGENCY.

>> THIS IS THE PART I THINK THAT WE'RE ASKED A LOT.

[02:05:01]

EVERY TIME THE STATE HAS AN EMERGENCY.

>> EVERY TIME THE GOVERNOR DECLARES A STATE OF EMERGENCY, HE CAN EXTEND DEVELOPMENT ORDERS SO THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE ENTITLEMENTS DON'T LOSE THEIR ENTITLEMENTS BECAUSE THERE'S A HURRICANE OR A FOREST FIRE OR SOME OTHER NATURAL DISASTER IN STATE.

IT GOES BACK TO WHAT YOUR ATTORNEY WAS TALKING ABOUT THE PRO DEVELOPMENT POSTURE OF THE STATE GOVERNMENT.

AFTER WE REACTIVATED, I'LL SAY THE PUD BY ASSIGNING LAND USE AND RE ESTABLISHING A NEW PHASING SCHEDULE, THE GOVERNOR THEN EXTENDED THAT TIME FRAME SEVERAL TIMES BECAUSE OF HURRICANES, FOREST FIRES, COVID, ETC.

TODAY, AS WE STAND, THE ULTIMATE EXPIRATION DATE FOR LACK OF A BETTER TERM IS NOVEMBER OF 2032.

BUT UNDERSTANDING IF THERE'S A HURRICANE NEXT YEAR OR GOD FORBID THIS YEAR, THE GOVERNOR MAY GIVE ANOTHER EXTENSION TO THAT DEVELOPMENT ORDER AND PUSH OUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF MADEIRA AND ALL OTHER DEVELOPMENT ORDERS IN THE STATE EVEN FURTHER.

>> THANK YOU. I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD EXPLANATION.

I KNOW IT'S A LITTLE LENGTHY, BUT ONCE YOU HEAR IT THREE OR FOUR TIMES, IT SINKS IN.

[LAUGHTER] WE WERE ASKED A LOT OF THINGS.

I THINK THAT IT BEHOOVES US TO MAKE A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO SEE THAT THOSE THINGS HAPPEN.

I HEARD PRIMARILY PLEASE SAVE THE TREES, DO WHAT YOU CAN TO SAVE THE TREES.

WHICH REALLY I THINK WE ALL AGREE WE OBVIOUSLY WE ALL AGREE ON SAVING THE TREES.

WE ALL LOVE TO SAVE THE TREES.

I THINK THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER WANTS TO SAVE THE TREES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

I BECAME ALARMED WHEN I HEARD FROM OUR ESTEEMED ARCHAEOLOGIST, LEGEND MARCIA CHANCE, THAT IT'S VERY POSSIBLE THE CAPAWACA VILLAGE, THE NATIVE AMERICAN VILLAGE THAT WAS THERE THAT WE KNOW WAS THERE.

ARTIFACTS COULD POSSIBLY BE UNDER THOSE TREES.

THAT'S VERY CONCERNING TO ME.

IT WOULD BE A TERRIBLE SHAME TO HAVE NATIVE AMERICAN ARTIFACTS LOST OR DUG UP OR TO JUST SAY IT BLUNTLY.

I WOULD APPEAL FOR MORE CERTAINTY IF POSSIBLE FROM THE DEVELOPER, IF WE COULD HAVE MORE CERTAINTY AS TO THE NATURE OF HOW HE WILL PROCEED.

WITH THE TREES IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL IF WE COULD COME TO AN AGREEMENT WITH A NEW TREE SURVEY, AN UPDATED TREE SURVEY.

I THINK MAYBE HE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THAT AS WELL.

I DON'T THINK THAT HE WANTS TO GO DOWN THIS ROAD EITHER.

WE WERE ASKED TO SAVE THE TREES AND TO ENFORCE THE PUD.

I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE ASSURANCES THAT WE WILL.

THE CITY WILL ENFORCE THE PUD TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY, BUT WE WILL ALSO BE LOOKING TO TALK MORE WITH THE DEVELOPER ABOUT SAVING THE TREES.

WITH THAT SAID, I DON'T THINK DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY MORE TO ADD? I WILL ASK THE DEVELOPER TO STEP FORWARD AND CERTAINLY WELL, IF HE'S WILLING TO OR IF HE'S INTERESTED IN WRAPPING UP.

IT'S IT'S NOT A MANDATORY, BUT IF YOU'RE YOU'RE INVITED.

>> WELL, I HAD ASKED THE QUESTION THAT HE IS WHY HE'S UP HERE.

>> GREAT.

>> WELL, JUST TWO THINGS.

WE HEAR YOU LOUD AND CLEAR.

THE PUD, WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR ANY CHANGES TO THE PUD TODAY.

WE HEAR YOU LOUD CLEAR ABOUT COMPLIANCE WITH THE PUD AND THAT WILL BE DONE, INCLUDING REMOVAL OF DIFFERENT TREES, AND OF COURSE, COMPLIANCE WITH THE PUD.

WITH THAT BEING SAID, I THINK THAT BILL NEEDS TO EXPLAIN TO YOU THE HISTORY OF WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THIS PARTICULAR PIECE OF PROPERTY, WHICH WE CALL PHASE 3 FOR CONSTRUCTION PHASING.

IT'S NOT PHASE 3 OF THE PUD.

IT'S CONSTRUCTION PHASING OF THE PROJECT.

I THINK THAT IT DOES BEAR EXPLANATION TO YOU PARTICULARLY AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO DON'T KNOW THE HISTORY OF HOW MUCH WORK THIS MAN PUT INTO TRYING TO WORK WITH THE STATE.

[02:10:05]

>> THANK YOU AGAIN. LET ME JUST SAY, THE CONCERN ABOUT TREES IS NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE JUST BECAUSE WE'RE THE DEVELOPERS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT CAME THROUGH IN MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE, BUT WE'LL LOOK FOR CREATIVE WAYS TO SAVE TREES AND I THINK WE'VE GOT AN EXAMPLE OF THAT RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE WORKING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF OUR DEVELOPMENT ON PONS ISLAND DRIVE.

IF YOU WENT THROUGH THAT AREA, YOU CAN SEE WHERE WE'RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT SAVING A NUMBER OF TREES THERE THAT ARE JUST REALLY GORGEOUS TREES.

AS FAR AS FAR AS THIS WHOLE CONCEPT OF LAND PRESERVATION FOR THE PHASE 3, WE LOOKED INTO THAT ABOUT A YEAR AGO.

I MET WITH CONCERNED RESIDENTS, VICKI AND BILL PAYNE.

I SAID IN GOOD FAITH, WE'LL LOOK INTO IT AND WE DID.

WE TALKED TO THE COUNTY.

WE TALKED TO THE CITY AT THE TIME, DID NOT HAVE ANY ANY PARTICULAR PLANS.

WE TALKED TO THE NORTH FLORIDA LAND TRUST AND THAT'S WHERE WE GOT THE MOST TRACTION, I GUESS, IF YOU WILL SAY, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT THAT.

THERE'S THAT FLORIDA FOREVER AND AND THE BLUE WAY, EXACTLY.

THE BLUE WAY.

WE LOOKED INTO THAT. WE HAD A FAIR AMOUNT OF BACK AND FORTH WITH THE STATE.

THERE WAS A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS, THEY'D GO BACK AND ASK US AND WE WOULD ASK THEM.

FINALLY, THEY CAME BACK AND EXPLAINED TO US THAT THIS WOULD BE A PROCESS THAT WAS GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME.

I WAS GOING TO BE VERY UNCERTAIN IN TERMS OF HOW IT MIGHT PROGRESS OR EVEN IF THERE MIGHT BE AN OFFER AND IF THERE WAS, HOW IT, YOU KNOW, WOULD COMPARE TO THE REAL VALUE OF THE LAND.

WE'RE MORE OR LESS DISENGAGED.

AS I MENTIONED TO YOU, THE PROPERTY IS NOW UNDER CONTRACT, SO BILL AND VICKI CAME TO ME OR ASKED ME TO MEET WITH THEM AGAIN.

I THINK THAT WAS LATE JANUARY AND AND I DID AND THAT WAS REALLY THE FIRST TIME I HEARD THIS CONCEPT OF PUTTING TOGETHER A PARK WITH OUR 30 ACRES AND THE LAND THAT'S APPROXIMATELY 20 ACRES THAT'S ON IN THE COUNTY.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, AND AS I EXPLAINED TO THEM, I COULDN'T GO INTO DETAIL AT THE TIME, BUT WE WERE TOO FAR DOWN THE ROAD.

I THINK I DID PUT IT IN THOSE TERMS. WE'RE TOO FAR DOWN THE ROAD.

THAT'S REALLY UNFORTUNATELY, WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES NOW, BUT WE ABSOLUTELY INTEND TO COMPLY WITH THE TREE ORDINANCES.

IT'S IT'S A GORGEOUS PIECE OF PROPERTY.

WE RECOGNIZE THAT. BUT, AS YOU MENTIONED, COMMISSIONER, I'M SURE THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME FOLKS THAT WILL BE HAPPY TO BE LIVING IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA.

>> I THANK YOU FOR YOUR ANSWER TO THAT.

I THINK PART OF THE KEY IS FINDING SENSITIVE BUILDERS.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL HAVE A SET OF BUILDERS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO APPROVE, BUT THAT MAKES SUCH A DIFFERENCE BECAUSE HOW THEY HELP THE OWNER SEE THE VALUE OF THE TREES AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'LL HAVE ARCHITECTS INVOLVED OR WHETHER THEY'RE JUST THE BUILDERS DO THE HOUSES, BUT GOOD ARCHITECT COULD CITE A BUILDING AMONG SENSITIVE TREES, AND I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU WOULD ENCOURAGE THAT BECAUSE SO MUCH OF THOSE TREES ARE NOT ON YOUR ROADS.

>> CORRECT. THAT'S ACTUALLY REQUIRED IN THE PUD AS FAR AS LOOKING AT THE TREES AND PRESERVING TREES WITHIN THE LOTS.

ALL OF THAT IS SPELLED OUT IN GREAT DETAIL IN THE PUD BECAUSE AS BILL WENT THROUGH IN HIS PRESENTATION, 20 YEARS AGO, THERE WAS AN ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP HERE SAYING THE SAME THING.

I WASN'T INVOLVED AT THAT POINT, AND BILL WASN'T EITHER.

BUT IF YOU READ THROUGH THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE IN YOUR STAFF REPORT THAT ARE THE HISTORY OF THAT PUD AND THE NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT, THERE WAS A HEAVY EMPHASIS ON ENVIRONMENTAL TREE PRESERVATION.

THAT'S WHY THEY'VE GOT HUNDREDS OF ACRES UNDER CONSERVATION EASEMENT, INCLUDING SOME OF THE LAND OUT IN THE MARSH.

IT'S NOT LIKE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN GOOD STEWARDS OF THE LAND IN MADEIRA.

>> ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT HASN'T BEEN REALLY DISCUSSED IS ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS THAT WERE AGREED TO?

>> SIR, YES, PLEASE SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE.

>> ADDITIONAL PROVISIONS THAT WERE AGREED TO IN 2004, WE'RE PLANTING OF NEW TREES FOR EACH AND EVERY HOME THAT'S BUILT.

>> WELL, THANK YOU. IT'S BEEN A LONG HISTORY.

I WAS INVOLVED IN THE SAVE THE GOLF COURSE,

[02:15:03]

AND I DO KNOW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PROPERTY.

I'VE BEEN MONITORING IT OVER MANY, MANY YEARS.

I WAS NOT ON THE COMMISSION.

>> I WAS ON PNC.

>> WE HAD TO ASK THE CITY TO BUY IT AT THAT TIME.

THE CITY DIDN'T WANT TO THINK IT WAS WHAT $2 MILLION.

CITY DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND $3 MILLION.

SO I GOT DEVELOPED.

>> THANK YOU.

>> HERE WE ARE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU FOR COMING ANSWERING QUESTIONS, AND I THINK THAT JUST ABOUT WRAPS IT UP.

>> I THINK WE NEED TO TAKE A BREAK.

7:15.

WE WILL ADJOURN FOR 15 MINUTES.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT 7:35.

WE ARE BACK TO ORDER.

THANK YOU FOR THE BREAK.

WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS 9A ORDINANCE 2024-17 FIRST READING.

[9.A.1. Ordinance 2024-17: Amends Chapter 11 to add protection for Longleaf Pine trees and amend the criteria for docks. (A. Skinner, Director Planning and Building)]

THERE WILL BE NO PUBLIC HEARING. MISS SKINNER.

>> YOU ARE WELCOME TO PRESENT.

>> THANK YOU. GOOD EVENING.

AMY SKINNER WITH THE PLANNING AND BUILDING DEPARTMENT.

THIS IS AN INTRODUCTION IN FIRST READING FOR ORDINANCE 2024-17.

THE DRAFTED ORDINANCE PROPOSES THREE CHANGES TO CHAPTER 11 IN THE LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, WHICH IS THE CONSERVATION AND OVERLAY ZONE DEVELOPMENT CHAPTER OF THE CODE.

THIS CHAPTER SERVES TO PRESERVE AND PROTECT ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE AREAS WITHIN THE CITY AS WELL AS CONSERVE ENDANGERED, THREATENED OR UNIQUE PLANTS.

FIRST, THIS PROPOSED ORDINANCE AMENDS THE LIST OF SIGNIFICANT TREES TO INCLUDE LONGLEAF PINES.

DURING THE CITY COMMISSION'S JANUARY 8TH MEETING, THE CITY COMMISSION REQUESTED THAT STAFF EXPLORE THE LONGLEAF PINE, ADDING THE LONGLEAF PINE TO THE CITY'S SIGNIFICANT TREE LIST WHICH DID NOT CURRENTLY OR DOES NOT CURRENTLY INCLUDE LONGLEAF PINES.

PROTECTING SUCH A TREE IS CONSISTENT WITH THE CITY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

THE LONGLEAF PINE TREE BECOMES MOST ACTIVE IN CONE PRODUCTION WHEN IT IS AT LEAST 15 INCHES IN DIAMETER OF BREAST HEIGHT.

THIS IS CONSIDERED WHEN IT IS A MATURE TREE.

OKAY. STAFF RECOMMENDED AMENDING THIS SECTION TO INCLUDE THE LONGLEAF PINE AT 15 INCHES DBH, WITH THE EXCEPTION FOR BONAFIDE AGRICULTURAL USES.

CITY STREET TREE ADVISORY COMMITTEE HAS ALSO DISCUSSED THIS ISSUE AND RECOMMENDED THAT THE LONG LEAF PINE BE ADDED TO THE LIST.

THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MADE THEIR FORMAL RECOMMENDATION ON FEBRUARY 6TH.

ADDITIONALLY, THE PCB HAS DISCUSSED UPDATING CHAPTER 11 IN THE CONSERVATION OVERLAY CRITERIA RELATED TO DOCKS AND BOAT LIFTS.

THE RELEVANT PART OF THE CODE IS SECTION 112917, WHERE THE STANDARDS FOR REVIEW AND THE CRITERIA FOR EVALUATING CONSERVATION ZONE DOCKS IS DISCUSSED.

IN THIS SECTION, THE PCB DISCUSSED ESTABLISHING CRITERIA FOR DOCK BOAT LIFTS THAT ARE NOT SINGLE FAMILY IN NATURE AND RECOGNIZING THAT LARGER BOATS AND LARGER WEIGHTED BOAT LIFTS SHOULD BE ACCOUNTED FOR IN THE CODE.

IT WAS ALSO DISCUSSED THAT THE 12,000 POUND BOAT LIFT LIMITATION THAT IS CURRENTLY IN THE CODE WAS MORE TYPICAL OF SINGLE FAMILY DOCKS.

LASTLY, SEVERAL MONTHS AGO, AS WELL AS WELL, THE PCB REQUESTED THAT STAFF CONSIDER RAISING THE MINIMUM HEIGHT FOR DOCS TO SOMETHING HIGHER THAN THE SIX FOOT MINIMUM OR MAXIMUM HEIGHT, OUTLINED IN THE CODE.

AT THE TIME, STAFF INDICATED THAT THE CITY WAS WORKING ON A RESILIENT SHORELINE ORDINANCE AND REQUISITE RESEARCH, WHICH MAY IMPACT THAT RECOMMENDED HEIGHT CHANGE.

BUT BASED ON INITIAL INFORMATION FROM THAT STUDY, THE STAFF HAS MOVED FORWARD TO DISCUSS WITH THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, CHANGING THE HEIGHT FROM SIX FEET TO EIGHT FEET.

THAT'S THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF DOCS.

THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD REVIEWED THIS LANGUAGE AS WELL AND RECOMMENDED ON APRIL 2ND, BOTH OF THOSE CHANGES.

THE DOCK HEIGHT AS DISCUSSED IT, THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD WAS A CONCERN BECAUSE OF HURRICANES AND IMPACTS TO DOCKS THAT WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF DAMAGE TO DOCKS, AND SO THAT WAS THE BASIS FOR RECOMMENDING A HIGHER HEIGHT.

>> THAT'S RIGHT, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE INSURANCE ON THEIR DOCKS.

THAT'S CORRECT. INSURANCE DOESN'T PAY FOR IT.

IT'S A VERY EXPENSIVE THING TO BUILD.

TO TRY TO AVOID HAVING THESE DOCKS REPETITIVELY IMPACTED BY STORMS,

[02:20:04]

THEY SAID THEY MADE THE RECOMMENDATION TO RAISE THAT MAXIMUM HEIGHT.

>> PLUS, THOSE LOOSE DOCKS CAUSE A LOT OF DAMAGE TO OTHER.

>> YOU DO ONCE THEY CUT LOOSE, AND IT'S A LOT OF DAMAGE AND A LOT OF DEBRIS.

>> YEAH. WELL, I'M VERY THRILLED TO HEAR THAT WE'RE GOING TO HEAR THAT WE'VE GOT THE FIRST READING OF THE LONGLEAF PINE ORDINANCE PROTECTING THEM.

THEY'RE THE OLDEST OF THE PINE TREES.

IT TAKES SO VERY, VERY LONG FOR THEM TO GROW THAT'S WORTH THEY'RE VERY WORTHY OF PROTECTION, AND THEY'RE A WHOLE LOT LESS OF THEM THAN THEY EVER THAN THERE WERE.

SO IT'S EXCITING.

I KNOW THE COUNTY ACTUALLY NAMED ONE OF THEIR MAIN NORTH SOUTH CORRIDORS AFTER THE LONGLEAF PINE TREES.

>> PROBABLY AFTER REMOVING MOST OF THEM FOR THEM?

>> PROBABLY. IT WAS QUITE A WHILE AGO.

YEAH. IF THERE WERE ANY LEFT.

ACTUALLY, AT THAT TIME, BECAUSE IT WASN'T OUR GENERATION THAT DID THE DEVASTATION OF THE LONGLEAF PINES.

>> I HAVE SOME COMMENTS IF YOU'RE FAILING.

>> WELL, I LOVE TO HEAR THEM.

>> THIS IS THROWING A WRENCH IN THE WORKS HERE ON PART OF THIS ORDINANCE.

ABSOLUTELY, 100% SUPPORT ADDING LONGLEAF PINES.

THAT'S GREAT. KEEP IT.

ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT RAISING DOCS 6-8 FT. KEEP IT.

HERE'S MY PROBLEM. I'LL GIVE YOU A FEW MINUTES TO CATCH UP WITH WHERE THIS IS.

THIS IS ON PAGE SEVEN IT BEGINS ON PAGE SEVEN AND EIGHT OF THE ORDINANCE OR 76 AND 77 OF THE PACKET.

THERE IS A SECTION 2 SECTION 11-29 C17-II.

THAT GIVES ME A LOT OF HEARTBURN.

THAT'S THE ONE WITH THE.

>> MARITIME USE DISTRICT?

>> YES. JUST BELOW THAT.

[NOISE].

>> WHICH NUMBER?

>> IT'S A. IT IS THE MARITIME USE DISTRICTS.

>> THE MUDS?

>> YEAH. BUT IT'S THE NEW CATEGORY OF [NOISE] LET ME GET TO THAT PAGE. SORRY.

>> WATERFRONT COMMUNITIES.

>> WATER WATERFRONT COMMUNITIES.

>>I WANT TWO, THREE AND FOUR.

>> WATERFRONT COMMUNITIES THAT GIVES ME A PROBLEM.

THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE FOLLOWING REASONS. I CANNOT FIND IT.

SORRY. JUST GIVE ME A SECOND HERE.

IT'S A NEW CATEGORY AND I SEE IT AS AN ENTITLEMENT.

IT'S FOR MARITIME USE DISTRICTS, A WATERFRONT COMMUNITIES WHICH ARE RESIDENTIAL BUT MULTIFAMILY EXCEEDING FOUR FAMILIES TO SEPARATE IT FROM THE PREVIOUS CATEGORY.

WHAT IS BOTHERING ME IS IT INCREASES THE MAXIMUM BOAT WEIGHT FROM 12,000 POUNDS TO 46,800 POUNDS, WHICH IS NEARLY A FOUR FOLD INCREASE.

IT ALSO INCREASES THE MAXIMUM BOAT LENGTH FROM 32 FEET TO 47 FEET, WHICH IS APPROXIMATELY A 1.5 TIMES INCREASE.

THOSE ARE LARGER VESSELS.

ON EARTH DAY IN PARTICULAR, THEY'RE LARGER AND CAN BE FASTER, AND IT'S LIKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GETTING HIT BY A BICYCLE AND GETTING HIT BY A TRUCK IF YOU'RE A MARINE ANIMAL.

IF YOU'RE A SEA TURTLE AND ENDANGERED SEA TURTLE OF SEVERAL SPECIES WHICH WE HAVE HERE, IF YOU ARE AN ENDANGERED MANATEE, IF YOU ARE A BOTTLES DOLPHINS, WHICH ARE ALSO THREATENED FEDERALLY, YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO DIE OR HAVE SERIOUS INJURY WITH A LARGER BOAT AND A HEAVIER BOAT.

WE HAVE A LOT OF BOAT TRAFFIC ALREADY.

I'M NOT OPPOSED TO THE BOAT TRAFFIC THAT WE HAVE, BUT I DON'T SEE WHY THERE'S A NEED FOR THIS SPECIAL CATEGORY.

WE ALREADY HAVE MUNICIPAL AND COMMERCIAL MARINAS THAT CAN ACCOMMODATE VESSELS OF THIS SIZE.

IN FACT, I'M ALSO CONCERNED THAT THERE COULD BE ECONOMIC IMPACTS TO THESE TYPES OF MARINAS, SO OUR OWN INCLUDED.

BY GRANTING THIS TYPE OF NEW CATEGORY THE BOAT CHANNELS THAT WE DO HAVE ARE ALREADY NARROW.

I REALLY DO WORRY ABOUT LARGER VESSELS BEING IN THESE NEW DEVELOPMENTS THAT NEW OR EXISTING MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE FACING THESE NARROWER CREEKS FURTHER UPSTREAM, ADDING TO OUR EROSION PROBLEMS ALONG OUR WATERWAYS.

I WOULD LIKE US TO REMOVE THAT SECTION FROM THIS ORDINANCE BEFORE I COULD SUPPORT IT.

>> CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE REASON AND THE JUSTIFICATION FOR ADDING THIS AND WHAT,

[02:25:05]

IF ANYTHING, CAN BE SHAPED IN A WAY THAT IT WOULDN'T.

>> THIS ISSUE WAS DISCUSSED.

YES.

>> UNDER ZONING BOARD. I THINK THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD NOTED THAT WE ARE SEEING MORE COMMUNITY DOCS.

THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP THAT THE 12,000 POUNDS IS TOO SMALL FOR THE BOATS THAT PEOPLE ARE OWNING THESE DAYS.

WE DID SOME RESEARCH WITH CITY MARINA STAFF.

BASICALLY, I THINK WE'RE SEEING MORE LARGER BOATS AND THAT THE BOAT OWNERS WANT TO GET THEIR BOATS OUT OF THE WATER FOR MAINTENANCE PURPOSES.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE SHIPYARDS DEVELOPMENT, EVEN THEIR SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT AREA HAS A COMMUNITY DOCK WHERE ALL THE DOCKS ARE GOING TO BE ON ONE DOCK, AND IF THEY HAVE LARGER BOATS, THEY WANT TO BE ABLE TO LIFT THEM UP OUT OF THE WATER.

RIGHT NOW OUR CODE LIMITS BOAT LIFTS TO THE 12,000 POUNDS.

>> IT DOESN'T WORK FOR THE SHIPYARDS AND SOME OF THE OTHER PLACES THAT ARE COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS.

HOW DO WE SHAPE THIS SO THAT IT ONLY ALLOWS THOSE EXTRA POUNDS, THOSE LARGER POUNDS JUST FOR THOSE MARINA OPERATIONS?

>> NOT RESIDENTIAL.

THAT I AGREE.

JUMPING FOUR TIMES THE SIZE.

>> IF IT IS ALREADY. I DON'T KNOW.

I'M ASKING THE QUESTION. IS IT ALREADY LIMITING?

>> THE SIZES THAT WE RECOMMENDED HERE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, ARE THE AVERAGE SIZE THAT WE ARE SEEING AT THE CITY MARINA.

OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR, WE HAVE DATA OF WHAT SIZE BOATS HAVE BEEN REGISTERED AT THE CITY MARINA AND PARKED THERE AND SO THESE ARE THE SIZES THAT THEY ARE SEEING NOW AT THE MARINA.

WHAT WE DID IS UNDER A NUMBER OR LETTER I IS WE DIFFERENTIATED BETWEEN WHAT THEY'RE REFERRING TO AS SINGLE FAMILY DOCKS AND MULTIFAMILY DOCKS THAT ARE LESS THAN FOUR UNITS WOULD BE LIMITED TO THE 12,000 POUNDS IN THE 32 FEET.

THEN IF YOU HAVE A LARGER DEVELOPMENT, THAT WE WOULD CALL REFERRED TO AS THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT WHERE YOU HAVE A MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT THAT HAS FOUR OR MORE UNITS OR YOU'RE A COMMERCIAL FACILITY, NOW, THE CONC ISLAND MARINA, FOR EXAMPLE, WHATEVER, COULD NOT HAVE A BOAT LIFT LARGER THAN 12,000 POUNDS.

IT'S JUST STRICTLY 12,000 POUNDS FOR ANY BOAT LIFT THAT YOU'RE PROPOSING.

THIS IS WHERE WE BREAK IT OUT TO MULTIFAMILY FOR MORE UNITS AND COMMERCIAL BOAT LIFTS THAT COULD GO UP TO THIS SIZE THAT WEIGHT AND THAT SIZE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE, BUT THEY'RE JUST BETWEEN THE 12,000 POUNDS AND THE 46,000 POUNDS.

>> HOW MANY DO WE DO WE KNOW? HOW MANY LESS THAN FOUR UNITS? WHAT'S THE POTENTIAL THAT THESE TYPES OF DOCS WOULD BE BUILT? HOW MANY FOUR UNITS OR LESS ARE THERE IN THE CITY ON THE WATERFRONT. DO WE KNOW THAT?

>> SORRY, FOUR OR MORE.

>> DO WE KNOW HOW MANY WE HAVE THAT COULD POTENTIALLY BUILD THESE?

>> OF THE TOP OF MY HEAD I CAN ACCOMMODATE THESE.

>> THERE'S PROBABLY SEVERAL.

>> PELICAN PELICAN REEF, SALT RUN CONDOS.

THE CONDOS THAT THE MULTIFAMILY BEING BUILT ON CAMERAS AVENUE?

>> YES.

>> WE'VE GOT THE WFOY CONDOS THAT YOU JUST SAW.

THERE'S PROBABLY MORE SHIPYARDS, OBVIOUSLY, THE NEW SINGLE FAMILY DEVELOPMENT SOUTH ON THE SHIPYARDS THAT WAS JUST ANNEXED IN.

I'D HAVE TO MAKE A LIST, BUT THERE'S SEVERAL.

>> I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN LOOKING AT THAT.

I'VE JUST BEEN REMINDED TO MENTION THAT THEY'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE YOU KNOW THE BOAT LIFTS BEING THAT FOR THAT WEIGHT.

[02:30:05]

BUT ALSO AT THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, THEY DISCUSSED THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS OF THE PAINT AND THE MAINTENANCE OF MAINTAINING BOATS THAT ARE IN THE WATER.

IF YOU CAN GET THEM OUT OF THE WATER, IT CAUSED LESS OF AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE TOXIC PAINT AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO MAINTAIN YOUR BOATS.

>> BUT WE HAVE ALL THOSE SHIPYARDS ALONG LIBERIA THAT DO THAT,.

THERE'S SOME BIG BOATS THAT THEY'RE PULLING OUT OF THE WATER WITH THOSE BOAT LIFTS AND THAT'S WHERE THEY DO THE MAINTENANCE.

WE ALREADY HAVE THAT NEED BEING MET.

>> THEN YOU CAN STORE IT IN THAT BIG BOAT BELT.

>> NOT THESE.

>> NOT THOSE?

>> NO.

>> I HAVE A COUPLE OF COMMENTS.

ONE IS WHY FOUR UNITS AND WHY WOULD YOU DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN JUST A SINGLE FAMILY OWNER, FOR INSTANCE? IT MAY HELP US, FOR THE SECOND READING, TO HAVE A PICTURE OF THESE BOATS BECAUSE I JUST WENT ON THE VICTORY III WITH SOME FRIENDS.

THERE'S A BOAT OUT IN FRONT OF THE CONCH HOUSE THAT'S NOT THAT BIG A BOAT, BUT IT HAS 600 HORSEPOWER ENGINES.

IT'S NOT A VERY BIG BOAT, BUT IT PROBABLY WEIGH MORE THAN 12,000 POUNDS.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE LENGTH IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE POUNDAGE, THAT'S SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.

I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PRIVATE OWNERS SHOULD HAVE THAT LARGE A BOAT AT THEIR SPOT ANYWAY.

I CAN'T REALLY PICTURE A 50,000-POUND BOAT MYSELF.

>> WE CAN WE CAN PROVIDE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR THAT.

THE FOUR OR MORE IS THAT WE REQUIRE A BUSINESS TAX RECEIPT FOR FOUR OR MORE RENTAL UNITS.

FOUR OR MORE UNDER FOUR UNITS IS WE DON'T REQUIRE A BUSINESS TAX RECEIPT IF IT'S A RENTAL.

FOUR OR MORE AS A MULTIFAMILY DEVELOPMENT, YOU WOULD CONSIDER IT AS NEEDING A BUSINESS TAX RECEIPT.

EVEN IF WE FELT LIKE THAT WAS A GOOD BREAK POINT TO SAY FOUR OR MORE, EVEN IF THEY'RE CONDOMINIUMS OR ANYTHING THAT THAT'S A STANDARD.

>> THEY WOULD STILL HAVE TO GET A PERMIT TO PUT IN A LIST?

>> YES. EVERYTHING WOULD STILL HAVE TO GO TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.

ALSO, WE ADDED NUMBER 3 WHERE AT LEAST THEY WOULD HAVE TO ATTEMPT TO SHOW SOME IMPACT ON THE VIEWSHED.

>> AND THE ENVIRONMENT?

>> THE ENVIRONMENT.

>> OTHER COMMENTS?

>> I JUST THINK THAT THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN USEFUL INFORMATION WHEN OUR HARBOR MASTER WAS HERE BECAUSE THEN HE COULD HAVE REALLY TOLD US WHAT WAS GOING ON DOWN THE MARINA AS FAR AS THE BOATS ARE CONCERNED.

PERHAPS WE NEED TO REVISIT THIS ORDINANCE AND NOT APPROVE THE 46,800 POUNDS, JUST REVISIT IT AFTER WE GET MORE DETAILED INFORMATION.

>> IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT WE HAVE INFORMATION FROM OUR HARBOR MASTER.

>> YES, WE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET.

>> I'D LIKE TO JUST SAY AGAIN, THIS PART OF THE ORDINANCE IS THE PROBLEMATIC PART.

IF WE CAN TAKE IT OUT AND PASS THIS LONG LEAF TO PINE TREE TO SECOND READING NOW AND THE DOCS RISING TO SECOND READING NOW, THAT WOULD BE GREAT.

THEN TO SPEND SOME TIME WORKING ON THIS PART OF THE ORDINANCE AND BRING IT BACK TO US SEPARATELY.

IS THAT POSSIBLE TO DO?

>> WELL, IT WOULD CHANGE YOUR SHORT TITLE.

YOU'D HAVE TO DO A NEW FIRST READING, WHICH YOU CAN DO, NOT A PROBLEM.

IF THE DIRECTION AND CONSENSUS OF THE BOARD IS TAKE OUT THE PROBLEMATIC ISSUE OF THE WEIGHT AND SIZE OF THE CONDO BOAT DOCKS AND JUST GO FORWARD WITH ALL THE OTHER PARTS, THE HEIGHT OF THE DOCKS AND THE LONGLEAF PINE ISSUES, WE CAN PUT IT BACK.

WE CAN AMEND THE SHORT TITLE AND PLACE IT BACK FOR FIRST READING AND MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT AND THEN COGITATE SOME MORE ON THE ISSUE OF THE LARGER FACILITIES.

>> THIS IS A VISUAL SUMMARY OF THE DATA THAT WE GOT FROM THE CITY MARINA AND MR. MAULDIN WHERE YOU CAN SEE THE SPIKE IN THE SIZE OF BOATS.

>> THAT'S WHY I WANT TO BRING THIS BACK TO ANOTHER, TAKING SOME OF OUR COMMENTS INTO.

>> WE CAN DO A SECOND FIRST READING.

IF YOU WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE ABOUT DOING A SECOND FIRST READING AND AN OPPORTUNITY TO UNDERSTAND HOW WE CAN IMPROVE THIS.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> AT THIS POINT, I'M NOT NECESSARILY IN FAVOR OF TAKING IT OUT TO BIFURCATING THIS ORDINANCE.

[02:35:01]

>> WELL, LET ME MAKE A MOTION THEN TO TAKE IT OUT BECAUSE WHAT I WANT TO DO IS MOVE ALONG THE PROTECTION FOR LONGLEAF PINES AS QUICKLY AS WE CAN.

I'M GOING TO MAKE THAT MOTION THAT WE DO WHAT OUR CITY ATTORNEY DID PASS THIS ORDINANCE TO SECOND READING.

>> IT WOULDN'T BE A SECOND READING.

[OVERLAPPING]

>> NEW FIRST READING WITH AN AMENDED TITLE THAT WOULD REMOVE THE BOATLIFTS PART OF IT.

>> I SECOND THAT.

>> YOUR MOTION IS TO REMOVE THIS SECTION AND DO A NEW FIRST READING WITH AMENDED TITLE?

>> YES.

>> CORRECT, AND I SECOND THAT.

>> DISCUSSION?

>> NO. IT JUST GIVES US MORE TIME TO GET MORE INFORMATION. THERE'S NOTHING.

>> GOOD. WE'LL HAVE A SEPARATE ORDINANCE FOR THE BOATLIFTS.

NO MORE DISCUSSION.

MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

>> NANCY SIKES-KLINE?

>> YES. IT IS, THANK YOU, LATE.

NOW WE HAVE TWO ORDINANCES.

>> RESOLUTION.

>> WE WILL HAVE TWO ORDINANCES.

NEXT ITEM, THIS IS A RESOLUTION,

[9.B.1. Resolution 2024-10: Discussion of the proposed City purchase in the amount of $500,000 of Fish Island Preserve Inholding property consisting of 2.5 acres and sponsored by Commissioner Blonder. (D. Birchim, City Manager)]

IS GOING TO BE PRESENTED BY OUR CITY MANAGER.

IT'S THE DISCUSSION OF THE PROPOSED CITY PURCHASE IN THE AMOUNT OF 500,000 OF FISH ISLAND PRESERVE.

FINALLY THIS HAS BEEN WORKED, THANK YOU SO MUCH, CONSISTING OF 2.5 ACRES SPONSORED BY COMMISSIONER BLONDER.

>> MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, AND COMMISSIONERS, RESOLUTION 2024-10, PURCHASES THE FISH ISLAND PRESERVE AND HOLDING PROPERTY.

ON THE OVERHEAD PROJECTOR, YOU'LL SEE A AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH OF THE FISH ISLAND PRESERVE.

THAT TAN COLOR SLICE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE IS PRIVATE PROPERTY THAT HAS AN EASEMENT TO PLANTATION ISLAND DRIVE.

IT'S DEVELOPABLE PROPERTY AND IS THE SUBJECT FOR TONIGHT'S RESOLUTION.

THE CITY HAS A LETTER OF INTENT TO PURCHASE THIS PROPERTY FOR $500,000.

IT'S COMING IN UNDER APPRAISED VALUE.

THE DEAL ALSO INCLUDES A COMMITMENT BY THE CITY TO SPEND $100,000 TO CONTEXTUALIZE THE JESSE FISH PLANTATION SITE.

THAT CONTEXTUALIZATION COULD BE RECONSTRUCTIONS OF THE PLANTATION OR GUARDHOUSE, MARKERS, SIGNAGE THAT IS SOMETHING WE WOULD WORK THROUGH WITH THE CURRENT OWNERS.

THE OTHER PART OF THE TRANSACTION INCLUDES THE CITY QUITCLAIM DEEDING OUR OWNERSHIP OF WHAT'S CALLED COONTIE ISLAND, WHICH IS SOUTH OF THE FISH ISLAND PRESERVE.