Oct 23, 2023 City Commission

>> SORRY. ANY QUESTIONS BEFORE WE GO FURTHER FOR MS. SKINNER? THANK YOU.

>> THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL MATTER, AS YOU KNOW AND YOU WILL HAVE TO DISCLOSE ANY EX PARTE THAT BEING ANY CONVERSATIONS, CORRESPONDENCE, EMAILS THAT YOU'VE HAD REGARDING THIS APPLICATION OUTSIDE OF THIS HEARING.

YOU'LL HAVE TO DO THAT DISCLOSURE FIRST.

IN TERMS OF THE PROCEDURE, YOUR APPEAL IS AN APPEAL ON THE RECORDS, SO WE WILL NOT BE SWEARING IN WHETHER IT'S THE APPLICANT OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC BECAUSE WE'RE NOT HEARING NEW EVIDENCE.

HOWEVER, IF THE APPLICANT PRESENTS A MODIFICATION TO THEIR PUD,

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YOU'LL HAVE A THRESHOLD DECISION TO MAKE WHETHER TO MOVE FORWARD AND HEAR THAT NEW INFORMATION ON THE MODIFICATION, IN WHICH CASE WE WILL HAVE TO SWEAR IN MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE WHO WANT TO TESTIFY AND THE APPLICANT AND HIS OR HER REPRESENTATIVES OR AGENTS, OR YOUR OTHER OPTION IS TO REMAND BACK TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD TO HAVE THEM DEVELOP THAT RECORD ON WHATEVER THE MODIFICATION IS, IF THERE IS ONE.

IF THERE IS NO MODIFICATION PRESENTED, YOU'RE LOOKING AT EITHER AFFIRMING THE RECOMMENDATION TO DENY THE REZONING TO PUD OR REVERSING THE PLANNING AND ZONING'S RECOMMENDATION TO DENY, IN WHICH CASE WE WOULD HOLD A FUTURE PUBLIC HEARING.

WE HAVE TO DO ADVERTISEMENT FOR AN ORDINANCE THAT REZONES.

TODAY, YOU COULD NOT SPONTANEOUSLY REZONE THE PROPERTY.

YOU COULD SIMPLY SAY, WE DISAGREE WITH PCB, WE BELIEVE THEY'VE MET THE CRITERIA OF PUD, PLEASE SCHEDULE THE ORDINANCE FOR FIRST READING.

THAT IS AN OPTION YOU COULD HAVE THIS EVENING.

I WILL REMIND YOU THAT AS ALL QUASI-JUDICIAL TYPE HEARINGS UNDER THE SNYDER DECISION, THE COURTS WILL BE LOOKING AT WHETHER OR NOT WE'VE PROVIDED PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS TO THE APPLICANT, WHETHER THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD APPLIED THE CORRECT LAW, AND WHETHER THE DECISION IS SUPPORTED BY COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.

THAT'S YOUR THREE-PART TEST THAT YOU SHOULD BE PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH AT THIS POINT.

OF COURSE, I'M ALWAYS AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.

>> THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS? THE CRITERIA IS PRETTY CLEAR.

THERE'S ALSO A SECTION IF YOU NEED TO REVIEW HERE IN YOUR PACKET THAT IF YOU WANT TO REFER BACK TO IT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW THIS IS GOING TO GO.

WE'VE HAD OUR STAFF PRESENTATION.

WE HAVE A CHOICE OF HEARING PUBLIC COMMENT NOW OR ASKING THE APPELLANT TO GIVE THEIR PRESENTATION AND THEN DOING PUBLIC COMMENT AFTER.

PERSONALLY, I PREFER HAVING PUBLIC COMMENT AFTER BECAUSE I THINK THE PUBLIC WILL HAVE THE BENEFIT OF HEARING THE APPLICANT'S CASE FOR SUPPORT, SO TO SPEAK.

WHAT IS YOUR PLEASURE?

>> I AGREE WITH THAT.

>> NUMBER 1 ON THIS LIST IS THE EX PARTE DISCLOSURES SHOULD THAT BE BEFORE?

>> JUST THE PROCEDURE.

>> WE CAN DO THAT NOW.

WE CAN DO THAT AFTER.

>> IF YOU'D LIKE TO DO IT NOW, WE CAN GO AHEAD AND DO IT.

>> I LIKE YOUR SUGGESTION. I JUST WANTED TO SAY.

>> I WOULD PREFER ONCE WE BEGIN DEBATE.

I WOULD LIKE TO START A DEBATE.

IF THAT'S OKAY.

WE WILL OPEN THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND REMIND ME THAT WE'RE GOING TO DO EX PARTE BEFORE THE DEBATE OR DISCUSSION SO TO SPEAK, NOT DEBATE DISCUSSION AMONGST OURSELVES. DELIBERATIONS.

>> ARE WE DOING THE APPLICANTS' PRESENTATION BEFORE PUBLIC COMMENT?

>> YES. WE DON'T NEED TO TAKE A VOTE ON THAT, BUT I THINK I HAD EVERYBODY NODDING HEADS, WILL GO AHEAD AND TAKE THE APPLICANTS PRESENTATION AND THEN WE'LL DO PUBLIC COMMENTS.

THEN WE'LL DO EX PARTE, AND THEN WE'LL DO DELIBERATIONS.

MR. WHITEHOUSE, YOU ARE FREE TO PRESENT.

WELCOME, AND MR. DETRA.

>> GOOD EVENING, MADAM MAYOR.

COMMISSIONERS, FOR THE RECORD, JAMES WHITEHOUSE, ST. JOHN'S LAW GROUP 104, C GROUP MAIN STREET HERE IN ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA.

I'M A BOARD CERTIFIED EXPERT IN CITY COUNTY, AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAW.

I'M HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT AND THE PROPERTY OWNER ON THIS APPEAL OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD DECISION.

THIS PROPERTY IS THE FORMER ST. AUGUSTINE TRANSFER COMPANY STABLES AND RYPE AND READI MARKET PROPERTY.

THIS REQUEST IS FOR A PUD REZONING TO THAT PROPERTY TO ALLOW THE REJUVENATION OF THIS PROPERTY.

WE'VE ALREADY SHOWN STANDING, SO I'LL SKIP OVER THAT AND THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE, IT'S ESSENTIAL TO START OUT WITH THE FOLLOWING BECAUSE THIS PARTICULAR CASE IS MAGNIFIED TO ME AS AN EXPERT IN CITY COUNTY OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT LAW, THAT THE CITY'S CURRENT PUD ORDINANCE IS NOT IN ACCORD WITH THE FLORIDA LAW AND PROVIDING MY CLIENT WITH HIS FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS, YOUR CODE STATES THIS REVIEW IS REQUIRED TO BE AN APPEAL FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD DECISION HOWEVER.

UNDER FLORIDA LAW, THE CITY COMMISSION IS THE ONLY BODY THAT MAY ROLL IN AUDIENCES, NOT JUST THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.

DECISIONS FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD ARE MERELY RECOMMENDATION AS TO THAT PROPOSED ORDINANCE AND NOT FINAL ACTIONS.

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UNFORTUNATELY, YOUR CURRENT PUD ORDINANCE STATES THIS HEARING IS ONLY AN APPEAL ON THE RECORD OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, MOREOVER, THAT SOMEHOW RESTRICTS YOUR RIGHT AND OBLIGATION UNDER FLORIDA LAW TO CONTINUE THIS APPLICATION IN FULL, WE BELIEVE THAT'S A VIOLATION OF MY CLIENTS RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS.

AGAIN, IF WE PROCEED IN THAT FASHION, WE FEEL LIKE THE CITY HAS VIOLATED MY CLIENT'S RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS WITH THIS HEARING.

IN THAT CASE, I'M JUST GOING TO MOVE FORWARD AND TALK ABOUT THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARDS DECISION, THE ERRORS THEY MADE, AS WELL AS THIS ORDINANCE ITSELF, SO YOU CAN HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THAT ORDINANCE AND DISCUSS IT AMONGST YOURSELVES TO SEE IF YOU THINK IT'S INAPPROPRIATE USE ON THIS LAND.

AS I SAID, WE'RE ASKING YOU TO GRANT THIS APPLICATION FOR THE PUD BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IT MEETS ALL THE REGULATIONS REQUIRED OF ANY AND MANY OTHER APPLICANTS FOR THE SAME TYPE OF REQUEST IN THE CITY.

ONE OF THE FIRST CONSIDERATIONS IS THE FACT THAT THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD VIOLATED MY CLIENTS FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS BY TREATING HIM DIFFERENTLY THAN OTHER APPLICANTS TO THE CITY'S SAME SIMILAR REQUEST.

IN FACT, JUST OTHER APPLICANTS THROUGH THE YEARS ON MANY SIMILAR REQUESTS, BUT APPLICANTS ON THE VERY SAME AGENDAS ON WHICH THEY DENIED OUR APPLICATION FOR THE SAME REQUEST.

SHOCKINGLY, AN ITEM THAT WAS PRESENTED JUST A COUPLE OF ITEMS BEFORE MY CLIENTS REQUEST, AS FOR THE SAME RELIEF FROM ON SITE PARKING, AND THAT ITEM, THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD SAW FIT TO GRANT THAT RELIEF WITHIN A REQUEST TO ALLOW OUTSIDE PARKING, IRONICALLY OR NOT SO IRONICALLY, THAT SITE WAS GRANTED THE SAME RELIEF TO THAT APPLICANT FROM HAVING TO PROVIDE ON SITE PARKING AND ALLOWING OFF SITE PARKING, AND IT'S LESS THAN A MERE 500 FEET AWAY FROM THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION IN THIS APPLICATION AND ON THE SAME COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR.

IT LACKS COMPREHENSION THAT'S SUCH A GRANT COULD BE GRANTED MINUTES BEFORE THAT SAME PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD WILL LOOK AT MY CLIENT AND SAY, YOU CANNOT HAVE THE SAME RELIEF THAT WE JUST GRANTED TO ANOTHER PROPERTY, THAT IS JUST UP THE ROAD AND ARGUABLY IN A MUCH MORE CONGESTED AREA OF THE CITY.

IT'S PLAIN TO SEE THAT THE REASONING FOR THE DENIAL FOR THAT SAME REQUEST TO THIS APPLICANT AS OPPOSED TO THE APPROVAL FOR THE OTHER APPLICANT WAS NOT BASED ON THE FACT, BUT WAS BASED EXCLUSIVELY ON THE PEOPLE WHO SHOWED UP IN THE CLAMOR OVER THE CROWD.

AGAIN. THIS IS A REQUEST AT 95 RIBERIA STREET, WHICH WE CALL THE RAILROAD RETROSPECTIVE MIXED USE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT.

WE ALL KNOW THAT PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENTS IN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE OR NOT APPROVED, EVERYBODY COMES IN AND THEY TALK ABOUT, AND THEY SAY HOW DANGEROUS THEY ARE, HOW MUCH EVIL THEY'RE GOING TO DO TO THE CITY.

BUT AS YOU KNOW, WITHIN YOUR CODE ITSELF, IT'S BEEN CODIFIED THAT THE PURPOSE AND INTENT OF PLANNED UNIT DISTRICTS WITHIN THE CITY ARE ALLOWABLE AND THERE TO PROVIDE AN OPTION AND A PROCESS FOR THE PROVISION OF UNIQUE, INDIVIDUALLY PLANNED DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE COMP PLAN AND CATEGORIES OUTLINED IN THE COMP PLAN, AND TO ALLOW MORE CREATIVE, FLEXIBLE, AND INNOVATIVE DESIGNS FOR PROJECTS THAN THE REGULAR ZONING DISTRICT ALLOWS, PROVIDES THE CITY THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THESE AND FIND WAYS TO ALLOW THIS AND TO REGULATE THE USE TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC HEALTH SAFETY AND GENERAL WELFARE, NOT JUST TO DENY THEM.

AGAIN, I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH ALL THE DIFFERENT AREAS OF YOUR ORDINANCE, YOU KNOW THEM, BUT THEY TALK ABOUT ALL THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT PUDS ARE APPROPRIATE WITHIN THE CITY, AND THERE ARE WAYS THAT IF THE ADDITIONAL USES THAT SOMEBODY ASKED WITHIN A PUD, IF THEY ARE CONSISTENT WITH YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, THAT THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWABLE WITHIN THE DISTRICT.

AS I SAID AND AS I TOLD THE PZB AND I'LL TELL YOU AS WELL, THIS PROJECT WILL TRULY BE A CELEBRATION AND REFLECTION UPON THE TRANSPORT OF PEOPLE AND GOODS IN OUR HISTORIC CITY.

AS YOU SEE, THIS IS A PICTURE ON KING STREET WITH ALL THE GOODS COME AGAIN ON THE HORSE AND CARRIAGES WHICH OCCURRED ON THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY AT THE TRANSFER STATION, JUST TO GO TO WHERE THIS PROPERTY IS, AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, IT'S ON THE CORNER OF KING 10 RIBERIA STREET, JUST A BLOCK DOWN FROM KING STREET AND RIBERIA STREET INTERSECTION.

MANY OF YOU KNOW THE HISTORIC STRUCTURES THAT ARE ON THIS PROPERTY FROM THE TRANSFER STATION.

THIS AREA WAS ALSO VERY BIG AND THE LOCOMOTIVE INDUSTRY WITHIN OUR CITY, THIS JUST RIGHT AROUND THIS AREA WAS WHERE THE TRAINS CAME IN AND THAT'S WHY THESE PARTICULAR STABLES WERE USED FOR THE HORSES TO BRING THE GOODS INTO TOWN.

I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE CHORD OR AS YOU KNOW, THIS IS A COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR.

YOU CAN SEE FROM BOTH YOUR FUTURE LAND USE MAP AS WELL AS YOUR ZONING MAP, AND WITHIN THE STAFF REPORT THAT'S IN THE RECORD, THAT THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY IS SMACK DAB, RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS COMMERCIAL FUTURE LAND USE DISTRICT, AS WELL AS THE COMMERCIAL ZONING.

AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS IS A CL-1 PROPERTY THAT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE CL-2, AND IF YOU NOTICE ON YOUR ZONING MAP, THE WHOLE CORRIDOR OF THIS AREA,

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AS WELL AS ALONG KING STREET, ARE THE SAME.

SAME ZONING, SAME FUTURE LAND USE.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH THE USES THAT ARE ALLOWED IN CL-1.

YOU ALL KNOW, BUT SUFFICE IT TO SAY THAT 100 SEAT RESTAURANT IS ALLOWED ON THIS PROPERTY.

I'M JUST GOING TO PRESENT YOU WITH SOME OF THE PICTURES OF THE AREA.

THIS IS LOOKING WEST FROM THE INTERSECTION OF RIBERIA, AND KING YOU CAN SEE THE PROPERTY IN THE BACKGROUND THERE, AND AS I SAID, THESE ARE THE SAME LAND USES AND THE ZONING OF THIS PROPERTY ITSELF.

THIS IS LOOKING NORTH FROM THE PROPERTY ITSELF AND YOU CAN SEE THE CIGAR BUILDING AS WELL AS THE OFFICES FOR VISIT ST. AUGUSTINE ON THE RIGHT, THIS AGAIN IS THE COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR.

THIS IS GOING DOWN THE COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR OR THIS IS STILL THE SAME LAND USE COMMERCIAL, AND CL-1, HERE YOU CAN SEE THE ICE PLANT, AND YOU CAN SEE THE DISTILLERY RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET.

HERE YOU CAN SEE A LITTLE FURTHER DOWN RIBERIA, THE MIXED USE CORRIDOR IS ANOTHER MIXED USE PROJECT CALLED THE SAN SEBASTIAN MARINA WITH SEVERAL DIFFERENT SITES, RIGHT PAST THAT YOU HAVE THE FISH CAMP, AND THEN THIS IS GOING BACK RIBERIA TOWARDS WHERE THE PROPERTY IS.

AGAIN, YOU SEE THE TROLLEY TRAINS THAT GO UP AND DOWN THIS COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR AGAIN, YOU SEE THE ST. AUGUSTINE DISTILLERY, THIS IS GOING BACK NORTH ON RIBERIA.

HERE YOU SEE THE PROPERTY ON THE RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT BEHIND THIS PROPERTY, AND THAT'S A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT WITH MULTI-FAMILY A PARKING LOT, DUMPSTERS AND LIKE I SAID, A PARKING LOT.

HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DISTILLERY IN COMPARISON, A NICE COMPARISON RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET TO WHERE THIS PROPERTY IS ITSELF, HERE'S THE PROPERTY THAT'S BEHIND IT.

THIS IS THE MULTIFAMILY RENTALS WITH THIS PARKING LOT AT DUMPSTER RIGHT OUT FRONT BACKS UP AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE BOTTOM PROPERTY OR THE PICTURE TO THE RIGHT, YOU CAN SEE THE BACK OF THE STABLE AND BARN BUILDINGS.

I'M GOING TO SKIP THROUGH SOME OF THESE PICTURES.

YOU ALL KNOW THIS COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR.

YOU ALL KNOW THE FORMER USE ON THIS PROPERTY, THE RYPE AND READI DOWNTOWN MARKET, WHICH WAS CLEARLY A COMMERCIAL USE, HOW LONG THIS PROPERTY THEY SOLD GOODS, THEY HAD FARM ANIMALS, AND THEY ALSO SOLD DIFFERENT TYPES OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES THAT IS.

THIS IS THE PARKING LOT ACROSS THE STREET ON THE INLAND HARBOR SAN SEBASTIAN PROPERTY THAT CURRENTLY SERVES FOR PARKING FOR THE CITY.

AGAIN, THIS IS LOOKING NORTH ON THAT KING STREET COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR.

SAME LAND USE SAME ZONING AS THE PROPERTY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.

THIS IS LOOKING WEST ON THAT SAME KING STREET CORRIDOR.

AGAIN, THIS IS THE CROSS THE STREET USE THAT 124 KING STREET THAT I REFERRED TO, THAT WAS ON THE SAME AGENDA AS THIS ON THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD AT THIS HEAVILY TRAVELED COMMERCIAL INTERSECTION WHERE THEY GRANTED A PARKING VARIANCE FROM THE PARKING THAT WAS REQUIRED FOR THIS COFFEE SHOP THAT'S GOING BE OPENED.

I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PROJECT ITSELF, REAL QUICK WITH YOU AND THE THINGS THAT WE PRESENTED, THE PLANNING ZONING BOARD.

IT'S AN INTERDEPENDENT MIXED USE PROJECT.

THIS IS ALL WITHIN YOUR PACKETS.

BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO GO OVER IT BECAUSE IT ISN'T APPROPRIATE USE ON THIS PROPERTY UNDER CL-1 ZONING.

THIS IS A PICTURE OF THE SITE ITSELF AND THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN FOR THE PROPERTY ITSELF, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF IMPROVEMENTS ON IT.

WE WERE AT THREE DIFFERENT PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD HEARINGS WHERE WE CHANGED THE PROJECT MANY TIMES TO COME INTO WHAT THEY REQUESTED US TO DO FOR COMPATIBILITY FOR THE SURROUNDING AREA.

AGAIN, THIS IS A CL-1 ONE PROPERTY THAT HAS MANY COMMERCIAL USES THAT CAN HAPPEN WITHOUT DOING ANYTHING.

AGAIN, BECAUSE WE WERE ASKED TO TRY TO FOCUS IT ON RIBERIA STREET BECAUSE THAT'S THE COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR, WE PUT IN BUFFERS ALONG LOCKING INTO PLACE.

YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A WROUGHT IRON FENCE THAT WAS INSTALLED.

THEY ASKED FOR A LANDSCAPING PLAN, WE PROVIDED THAT AS WELL.

WE ALSO PROVIDED SOME BIKE AND E-BIKE RACKS ON THAT SIDE.

HERE YOU CAN SEE THAT AS I SAID ON THAT AND THEY'RE ALL CODIFIED WITHIN THAT PLAN ITSELF, WHICH WOULD BE PART OF THE PUD.

YOU CAN SEE FROM THE CORNER WHERE THE HISTORICAL LOCOMOTIVE WOULD BE PUSH-BACK FROM THAT CORNER TO HAVE APPROPRIATE SIGHT TRIANGLE, AND AGAIN, AS I SAID, THERE WAS THIS WROUGHT IRON FENCE THAT WAS PUT IN.

I'M NOT GOING TO TALK A LOT ABOUT THE LOCOMOTIVE, BUT THAT'S WITHIN YOUR PACKET ITSELF. THE BIG BARN ITSELF.

WE WANT TO PRESERVE THESE BUILDINGS AS APPROPRIATE WAY TO CONTINUE THE LOCOMOTIVE THEME, AS WELL AS THE RESPECT FOR THE ST. AUGUSTINE TRANSFER COMPANY THAT WAS ON THIS PROPERTY.

WE'VE CHOSEN TO MOVE THIS PROPERTY ON THE EDGE BACK SOME,

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SO WE CAN INSTALL THAT SIDEWALK AND THE APPROPRIATE PEDESTRIAN AREAS ALONG THERE.

WE CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT. I'M NOT GOING TO TALK ABOUT ALL THE USES, BUT THERE ARE MULTIPLE USES WITHIN THIS PART OF ONE OF THEM IS A LITTLE DISTILLERY AS WELL AS A BREWERY WITHIN THAT MUSEUM BARN, AND ALL OF THOSE WILL WORK TOGETHER WITH THE REST OF THE PROJECT TO TRY TO PUT FORWARD THIS RAILROAD FLORIDA AND HOW THE RAILROAD HELP FLORIDA DEVELOPED WITHIN OUR UNITED STATES.

WE ALSO WANT TO HAVE THIS LOCAL COMMUNITY MARKET, WHICH WILL ALLOW LOCAL GOODS TO BE SOLD ON THE SITE JUST LIKE THE RYPE AND READI MARKET, AND A LOT OF THE GOODS WILL ALSO RELATE THEMSELVES TO THE WAY THE RAILROAD AND HOW THE RAILROAD HELPED DEVELOP FLORIDA.

AS I SAID ON ALL OF THESE, I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH IT, BUT WE PUT OURS TOO BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD RECOMMENDED AND THE HOURS ARE ALL COMPATIBLE TO THE AREA.

AS YOU SEE, THE MAJORITY OF IT IS DONE BY 8 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT.

ALSO, WE HAVE THE RAIL CAR, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE RESTAURANT'S SERVICE.

IT'S PUSHED BACK FROM BOTH LOCKEAN TOP AND FROM THE PROPERTIES TO THE EAST TO BUFFER THEM WITH LOTS OF LANDSCAPING ITSELF.

IT'S INTIMATE DINING AND THIS HISTORIC PULLMAN CAR RESTORED THE 1910-1920 ERA.

WE HAVE THE KITCHEN AREA THAT'S GOING TO PROVIDE THE FOOD FOR THE RESTAURANT ITSELF.

AS YOU CAN SEE, WE HAVE A LOT OF LANDSCAPING AND BUFFERING ON THIS EASTERN SIDE OF THE PROPERTY ITSELF.

AS I SAID, THIS IS CL-1 PROPERTY.

THE BUFFERING AND THE PUSH-BACK OF THE BUILDINGS, ET CETERA, ARE IN EXCESS OF WHAT'S REQUIRED OF A CL-1 PROPERTY THAT COULD BE DONE IN THAT PROPERTY TODAY.

WE HAVE HOURS FOR THE KITCHEN ITSELF.

WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT HOW MAKING IT A FULLY PEDESTRIAN FRIENDLY SITE WITH CROSSWALKS AND RIDESHARE DELIVERY IN THIS TROLLEY STOP AREA.

INITIALLY, THE TROLLEY STOP AREA WAS LIKE ALL THEIR TROLLEY STOPS.

IT JUST WENT OFF OF LIBERIAN BACK ON.

PURSUANT TO PCB REQUESTS, WE PUSHED IT FURTHER ONTO THE PROPERTY SO THAT IT WOULD BE A SAFETY AND A SIDEWALK ON THE WESTERN SIDE OF WHERE THE RIDESHARE DELIVERY AREA WOULD BE, TROLLEY STOP AREA WOULD BE.

AS I SAID, THIS COMPATIBLE USE AND THIS FULLY PEDESTRIAN ACCESSIBLE EXPERIENCE IS MEANT TO ASSIST IN THE WAY THE PROPERTY IS SUPPOSED TO OPERATE, WHICH IS AS A FULLY PEDESTRIAN SITE.

WE HAD TALKED A LOT ABOUT BEING ABLE TO PUT A FEW PARKING SPOTS ON THE SITE, AND THE WAY WE WENT BACK TO AS WAS BECAUSE WE LOOKED AT YOUR MOBILITY PLAN AND OUR CITY, IS WORKING ON OUR MOBILITY PLAN NOW.

IN FACT, IT'S GOING TO BE COMING IN FRONT OF YOU IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS HERE.

FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS, EVER SINCE I WAS AN ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY HERE, WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET THE CARS OUT OF THE CENTER OF OUR DOWNTOWN AREA.

THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE REASON WHY I SAID WE SHOULD NOT HAVE A COUPLE OF PARKING SPOTS IS BECAUSE WHEN YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF PARKING SPOTS, YOU BRING PEOPLE TO THE SITE.

IF THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO KEEP THERE, THEN YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE THE CARS COMING HERE AND OVERFLOWING INTO THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PARKING, YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE PARKING, OFFSITE SOMEWHERE ELSE AND APPROPRIATE SPOTS THEN BEFORE YOU EVEN GET ANY THEOS FOR THE PROPERTY, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE CARS COMING TO THE SITE, WHICH IS WHAT OUR MOBILITY PLAN IS TRYING TO FURTHER.

YOU CAN SEE THAT FROM THE STAFF REPORT BECAUSE THE STAFF POINTS THAT OUT MULTIPLE TIMES IN THEIR STAFF REPORT TALKING ABOUT HOW THIS PARTICULAR SUGGESTION BY THIS APPLICANT HELPS TO FURTHER THE GOALS AND OBJECTIVES OF OUR MOBILITY PLAN THAT WE'RE WORKING ON.

YOU CAN SEE THAT WE INSERTED THAT LANGUAGE DIRECTLY INTO THE PUD.

IT SAYS, NO PARKING WILL PROVIDE ONSITE.

HOWEVER, THE APPLICANT WILL BE ALLOWED TO PROVIDE OFF-SITE PARKING AND CENTRAL BE ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH SEPARATE PRIVATE AGREEMENTS WITH OFFSIDE PROPERTIES.

THE NUMBER OF REQUIRED SPACES FOR ALL USERS WILL BE DETERMINED BY STAFF UPON SITE PLAN CONSTRUCTION PLAN APPROVAL, AND THE APPLICANT WILL PROVIDE PROOF OF LEASES FOR THAT AMOUNT OF PARKING SPOTS BEFORE ANY CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY IS ISSUED BY THE CITY.

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY CANNOT USE THE PROPERTY UNTIL THEY PROVE THEY HAVE PARKING OFFSITE TO USE THIS PROPERTY.

THIS PROPERTY IS NOT GOING TO COME OUT OF THE GROUND FOR OVER TWO YEARS.

THERE IS NO WAY FOR THEM TO PROVIDE YOU WITH LEASES TODAY FOR THOSE PROPERTIES BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO COME OUT OF THE GROUND FOR TWO YEARS.

HOWEVER, YOU SEE THIS IS CODIFIED WITHIN THE ZONING ITSELF THAT SAYS THEY CANNOT USE THE PROPERTY.

THEY CANNOT GET A CEO ON THE PROPERTY UNTIL THEY PROVE TO YOU THAT THEY

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HAVE PARKING THAT SUFFICIENTLY MEETS THE CITY GUIDELINES FOR THIS SITE ITSELF.

AGAIN, THAT PROMOTES THE GOALS, OBJECTIVES OF YOUR MOBILITY PLAN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT IN PASSING IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS.

AGAIN, WE HAVE THE ACCESS WE HAVE THE FULLY PEDESTRIAN ACCESS POINT FOR DROP-OFF, FOR DELIVERY, FOR TROLLEY STOP.

WE HAVE SIDEWALKS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE PROPERTY.

WE ALSO INSERTED SPECIFIC REGULATIONS AND PROHIBITIONS AS REQUESTED BY YOUR PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.

THESE INCLUDE NO OUTSIDE ACTIVITIES OR FOOD SERVICE IN THE COMMON AREA ALLOWED AFTER 9 P.M. ON SUNDAY THROUGH THURSDAY AND AFTER TEN ON FRIDAY, SATURDAY AND HOLIDAYS, AND THERE'LL BE NO AMPLIFIED MUSIC AND NO SPECIAL EVENTS AS DEFINED BY THE CITY'S SPECIAL EVENT ORDINANCE.

AGAIN, THIS JUST ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS WE WENT THROUGH TO TRY TO MEET THE PCB FROM YOUR STAFF.

YOUR STAFF REPORT'S PRETTY CLEAR AND YOU SEE THAT THE FIRST EIGHT PAGES OF YOUR STAFF REPORT, SITE GOALS, OBJECTIVES, AND POLICY FROM YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SHOWING HOW THIS PROPOSAL MEETS YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

SOME OF THOSE ARE FROM THE TRANSPORTATION AND MOBILITY ELEMENT OF YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

AGAIN, I'M NOT GOING TO GO THROUGH THEM, BUT THEY'RE IN YOUR PACKET AND THEY'RE IN THE RECORD.

ALSO FROM YOUR MOBILITY PLAN.

THEY TALK ABOUT THE OVERVIEW OF THAT MOBILITY PLAN.

YOUR STAFF SPECIFICALLY CITES THIS WITHIN THEIR EXPERT STAFF REPORT.

ALL THESE USES ON THIS SITE WILL INTERACT TOGETHER TO PROMOTE THE FORGOTTEN HISTORY OF THIS AREA AND AN APPRECIATION FOR THE RAILROAD INDUSTRY THAT SERVED OUR HISTORIC CITY FOR MANY YEARS AS MR. FLAG OR PROMOTED ST. AUGUSTINE, THIS HISTORIC PROPERTY THAT PROVIDED THE AREA FOR THE STABLES THAT ALLOW GUESTS TRANSPORTATION FOR THE RAIL STATION INTO THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

AS I SAID, YOU'LL SEE FROM YOUR STAFF REPORT, THEY STATE, THE EXPERT STAFF REPORT STATES, THIS IS IN LINE WITH THE GOALS AND REGULATIONS OF THE CURRENT LAND USE CATEGORY.

THAT'S WHY THERE IS NO REQUEST TO CHANGE THE LAND USE CATEGORY.

THEY ALSO TALK ABOUT HOW THIS PROJECT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, AND AGAIN, BECAUSE I'M LIMITED ON TIME, I WILL JUST QUOTE, THEY SAID THAT THESE EIGHT PAGES, THEY PROVIDE THE INCLUDED GOALS, OBJECTIVES, AND POLICIES TO SUPPORT THE PROPOSAL OF THE RAILROAD RETROSPECTIVE MIXED-USE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT.

IN CONCLUSION, IF THERE'S A FAIR AND REASONABLE EVALUATION OF THE COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT WAS PRESENTED AND INCLUDED WITH THE RECORD OF APPEAL.

THE RECORD CONTAINS THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS REQUIRED OF THE APPLICANT TO MEET THE REGULATIONS WE REQUIRED FOR THIS REQUEST AND REZONING TO PUD THE EVIDENCE WAS SUBMITTED.

ACCORDING TO YOUR EXPERT STAFF, NOT ONCE BUT TWICE AT BOTH HERE AT ALL THREE HEARINGS ACTUALLY, THEY FOUND THE APPLICATION MAT AND FURTHER THE STEADIES COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

AS I STATED, THEY GAVE YOU EIGHT PAGES OF YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT SUPPORT THE PROPOSAL.

ACTUALLY, FROM THE OUTSET, THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THEIR APPLICATION AND REVISE THE SAME TO ADDRESS ALL THE CONCERNS, WHICH IS MOST LIKELY WHY YOUR EXPERTS STAFF FOUND THAT IT MET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR APPROVAL AND WHY THE GOALS, OBJECTIVES, AND POLICIES OF YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SUPPORT AND FURTHER THIS APPLICATION OR THIS APPLICATION SUPPORT AND FURTHER THOSE GOALS, OBJECTIVES, AND POLICIES.

AS I SAID, THAT THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS PROVIDED AT THE HEARING ITSELF TALKED ABOUT PARKING, PARKING, AND MORE PARKING, BUT THERE WAS NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE SHOWING THAT THIS WAS GOING TO CAUSE ADDITIONAL PARKING.

AS I STATED, ALL OF THE THINGS OFFERED BY THE APPLICANT HIMSELF SHOWED THAT HE WAS GOING TO PROVIDE THE REQUIRED PARKING THAT WAS NEEDED AND REQUIRED BY THE CITY CODE.

I'M JUST GOING TO SUM UP HERE REAL QUICK.

WE WOULD TELL YOU THAT THERE CAN BE NO QUESTION THIS DENIAL, WHICH WAS OPPOSED BY EVERY EXPERT WITNESS ON THE RECORD WHO OFFERED SUBSTANTIVE, COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONY WAS IN FACT AN ABUSE OF THE APPLICANTS DUE PROCESS RIGHT, AND IT REPRESENTS A FAILURE TO FOLLOW THE ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS OF LAW, THAT IT WAS NOT SUPPORTED BY ANY EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD, MUCH LESS EVIDENCE THAT WAS COMPETENT, SUBSTANTIAL.

IN SOME, WE REQUEST YOUR APPROVAL OF A REQUEST TO ALLOW THE REJUVENATION OF THIS PROPERTY, TO ALLOW THE OWNER TO PROCEED WITH THIS REASONABLE USE ALONG THIS CLEARLY COMPATIBLE CORRIDOR AS A MEANS TO REHABILITATE AND REJUVENATE THIS PROPERTY.

TO CONTINUE TO SERVE THE CITY IN THE AREA OF THIS PROPERTY.

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AS THIS PROPERTY SERVE THE CITY AND THE HEIGHT OF THE FLAG AN ERROR BY SHARING THE HISTORY OF THIS PROPERTY AND THE RAILROAD AND AT THE SAME TIME FURTHERING THE GOALS, OBJECTIVES, AND POLICIES OF OUR CITY COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AS NOTED AND RECOMMENDED BY YOUR EXPERTS CITY STAFF.

I RESERVE THE REST OF MY TIME FOR REBUTTAL. THANK YOU, MA'AM.

>> THANK YOU. OKAY, SO WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO NOW IS WE'LL GO TO PUBLIC COMMENT, AFTER WHICH THE APPELLANT WILL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR REBUTTAL.

AFTER THAT, WE WILL DO OUR EX PARTE COMMUNICATIONS AND BEGIN DELIBERATIONS.

MY FIRST SPEAK AT THIS PUBLIC HEARING IS OPEN.

IF YOU WISH TO SPEAK, YOU CAN FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD WHICH ARE AVAILABLE IN THE BACK AND GIVE IT TO THE OFFICER AND THE CHIEF IS BACK THERE.

I SEE SHE'S GOT MORE CARDS AND SHE'LL BRING THEM TO ME.

FIRST SPEAKER IS, I'M GOING TO CALL TWO SPEAKERS AT A TIME SO THAT YOU CAN BE READY AND PREPARED.

WE HAVE QUITE A BIT OF SPEAKER CARDS HERE AS YOU CAN SEE, SO WE'LL BE HERE FOR A BIT.

I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE YOU NOTICE JUST TO GO PREPARE YOURSELF.

CHERYL CAVANAUGH FOLLOWED BY TOM CAVANAUGH.

[BACKGROUND].

>> I'M CHERYL CAVANAUGH AND I LIVE AT 107 LA QUINTA PLACE AT ST. AUGUSTINE.

I'VE BEEN A RESIDENT OF ST. AUGUSTINE SINCE 1998.

WE BOUGHT THE PROPERTY IN 2004, WE HAVE LIVED IN THE PROPERTY AS OUR PRIMARY RESIDENCE SINCE 2007.

MY HUSBAND AND I ARE BOTH SEMI-RETIRED REAL ESTATE INVESTORS AND DEVELOPERS.

WE HAVE DEVELOPED OVER 20 BUILDINGS IN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, TURNING THEM FROM RAMSHACKLE BUILDINGS TO LIVABLE HOMES.

WE'VE ALSO DEVELOPED TWO COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE IN THE CITY, AND WE ADAPTED THEM, WE'VE DONE THIS ALL WITHIN THE EXISTING CODE, WE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR A POD.

WE'VE ALSO FOUND ADEQUATE PARKING, AND THAT HAS BEEN A PROBLEM SINCE 1998, IS NOT A NEW THING.

MR. DETRITUS SAYS, I WILL HAVE PARKING.

WELL, I HATE TO TELL HIM I'M A VOLUNTEER WITH THE ORGANIZATION, HAD A PARKING FOR 30 YEARS IN 30 DAYS AGO, THEY SAID, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PARKING ANYMORE.

WE'VE BEEN SCRAMBLING TO FIND PARKING.

I REALLY DOUBT IF HE'S GOING TO FIND 60 SPACES WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE.

THAT WHOLE BLOCK IS ZONE CO1, THAT IS LOW INTENSITY COMMERCIAL PROPERTY.

LINCOLN BILL HANDBOOK, ZONING HANDBOOK DEFINES IT AS BUSINESS BEING THERE SO THAT IT CAN BE A BUFFER AGAINST HIGH DENSITY PROGRAMS. NOW WHAT HE'S PLANNING TO DO IS TO TAKE EVERYTHING THAT SUGGESTION ON THE CR1 AND PUT IT ON ONE PROPERTY.

IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A LOW DENSITY ANYMORE, IT'S GOING TO BE A HIGH DENSITY PROPERTY.

YES, HE WANTS TO MAKE IT RESIDENTIAL AND HE WANTS TO MAKE IT A WALKING PROPERTY.

I HATE TO TELL THEM THAT AREA IS NOT A WALKING AREA YET AND IT PROBABLY WON'T BE FOR AWHILE IF YOU EVER LOOKED AT THAT STREET DURING THE WEEK BETWEEN THE POST OFFICE, THE SCHOOL, AND THE TOURISTS, THERE ARE NO PARKING SPACES, IN FACT, THINGS ARE BLOCKED ALL THE TIME.

BUT LOW DENSITY COMMERCIAL WAS DESIGNED TO BE A BUFFER WITH SMALL BUSINESSES THERE FOR THE CONVENIENCE OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

YOU CAN READ THAT IN YOUR HANDBOOK BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT MY HUSBAND AND I USED WHEN WE BOUGHT PROPERTIES AS GUIDELINES IN ORDER TO DEVELOP OUR PROPERTIES.

IT DID NOT TALK ABOUT A HI TRAIN, IT DID NOT TALK ABOUT DINING, DID NOT TALK ABOUT MUSEUM.

DOES TALK ABOUT MUSEUMS BUT MY QUESTION IS THIS, WHY DID WE GOING TO DO WITH ALL THIS OVERFLOW THAT'S GOING TO COME? HE SAID HE'S PUTTING SIDEWALKS AND YES, THEY'RE GOING TO ALL BE FLOWING INTO THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

IF YOU'VE EVER WALKED AROUND HERE AT NIGHT SATELLITES, IT'S LIKE IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET HOME, YOU WALK FOUR BLOCKS OUT OF THE WAY TO GET HOME.

JUST STICK IS INTENDED TO APPLY WHERE SMALL GROUPS OF LOW INTENSITY COMMERCIAL USES MAY BE PUT.

I HOPE YOU DENY THAT BECAUSE IT'S NOT FOLLOWING. THANK YOU.

>> MR. CAVANAUGH, FOLLOWED BY JANE MCCUTCHEN.

>> I ECHO WHAT MY WIFE SAID.

>> MR. CAVANAUGH, CAN YOU SPEAK UP TO THE MICROPHONE.

THANK YOU. YOU CAN PULL IT UP IF YOU LIKE.

>> NICE. I ECHO WHAT MY WIFE SAYS,

[01:10:04]

BUT I'M PARTICULARLY CONCERNED WITH THE TRAFFIC, SAN SEBASTIAN PROJECTING THAT IS NEXT DOOR.

A PREVIOUS PUBLIC COMMENT WAS THAT THE OWNERS HAS ALWAYS BEEN ON THE CITIZENS.

HERE AGAIN, THIS IS ON US.

WHEN THERE'S NOISE, TOO MUCH TRAFFIC AMBULANCES DON'T GET THROUGH.

ALWAYS THE ONUS IS ON US.

ANYONE WITH A PRACTICAL MINE WHO LOOK AND SAY YOU'RE GOING TO PUT ALL THIS STUFF ON ONE LOT, NO PARKING THE PEOPLE OR WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? ARE THEY GOING TO GO WEST OF US1 WHERE THEY'LL HAVE SOME PARKING SPACES OR GO TO THE PARKING GARAGE WHERE YOU'VE GOT TO PAY?NO, THEY'RE GOING TO DRIVE AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD UNTIL THEY FIND A SPOT.

THIS IS JUST COMMON SENSE.

THE PARKING PLAN THAT THE STAFF CAME UP WITH, A SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES.

MOST MAJOR CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE TRIED ELIMINATING PARKING AND HAVE WALKABLE CITIES.

IN TIME AFTER TIME, THEY'VE CLOSED OFF THE DOWNTOWNS PUT SIDEWALKS THERE.

IN 20 OR 30 YEARS LATER, THEY TORE UP THE SIDEWALKS AND PUT THE ROAD BACK IN.

IT'S NOT MAGICAL WE ARE DRIVING CULTURE.

TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE ENFORCE PEOPLE TO DO IT, THEY'LL END UP GOING SOMEPLACE ELSE WHICH WILL DEFEAT IT.

IT'S INSULTING TO SAY THAT THE PEOPLE WHO CAME IN TESTIMONY TO THREE MEETINGS CAME TO THREE MEETINGS, WE WERE LEFT TO WAIT TILL THE END OF THE MEETINGS THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING.

WE'RE THE CLAMOR OF THE CROWD.

WE HAVE OUR ND, THE PEOPLE IN THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD, IS THEY'RE NOBODY? THEY ARE PROFESSIONAL BUSINESS PEOPLE, THEY'VE BEEN AROUND, THEY DONATE THEIR TIME.

I WOULD SAY, ON THE OTHER HAND, THAT THE PEOPLE WHO SHOWED UP FOR MR. DETRA, NOTHING AGAINST MR. DETRA OR HIS SPONSORS THEY WERE MANY SELF-INTERESTED REALTORS, INVESTORS, SO THIS IS ABOUT MONEY.

THE SELLER IS GOING TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY BY SELLING A PROPERTY THAT WOULD NORMALLY NOT BE WORTH THAT MUCH IF HE COULD NOT GET THAT MUCH ON IT.

THE BUYER IS GOING TO PAY THAT MUCH BECAUSE THERE'LL BE ABLE TO DO A LOT MORE WITHOUT THIS PERMISSION.

WE SHOULD JUST KEEP THE LAW WE HAVE AND I WOULD APPRECIATE IF EVERYBODY DID THEIR JOB. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, MR. CAVANAUGH.

JANE MCCUTCHEN, FOLLOWED BY SUSAN O'TOOLE.

>> HI THERE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SERVING AND DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

I APPRECIATE IT. I'M VERY NERVOUS.

I OWN 125 KING STREET, WHICH I SAW A LOT OF PICTURES OF JUST NOW, THAT'S WHY I'M HERE.

BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PARKING, EVERYBODY IS GOING TO BE PARKING AT EVERY BUILDING AND EVERY RESIDENT ON EVERY STREET IN THE VICINITY, YOU CAN LITERALLY THROW A ROCK AT HIS PROPERTY FROM MINE.

WE ALREADY HAVE A PARKING PROBLEM IN THE CITY, IT'S BEEN CONSTANT.

I'VE BEEN THERE SINCE 2009 AND WATCHED IT AND YOU SEE PEOPLE COMING AND PARKING AND LEAVING.

YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO HAVE TO HIRE SOMEONE TO SAY, HI, WHERE ARE YOU GOING, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THAT'S NOT HOW WE DO IT IN THE CITY.

WE DON'T SAY WELCOME HI, WHERE ARE YOU GOING, HOW LONG YOU TO BE THERE? IT'S ALSO FLORIDA IT'S NOT A WALKING CITY.

I'M JUST HAVE TO SAY THAT, THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT IF YOU DIDN'T ASSUME THAT PARKING WOULD COME.

I THINK THAT THAT'S A CASE OF DOING IT AND THEN ASKING FOR PERMISSION LATER.

I REALLY HOPE YOU'LL OPPOSE THIS. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. SUSAN O'TOOLE, FOLLOWED BY KERRY NEILBURN.

WELCOME, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS IN FEW MINUTES.

>> GOOD EVENING, MAYOR AND COMMISSIONERS.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING US TONIGHT.

I'M COMING JUST TO SAY A FEW WORDS ABOUT THIS PROJECT.

>> MADAM, COULD YOU GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

>> I'M SORRY [LAUGHTER] MY NAME IS SUSAN O'TOOLE.

I'M A RESIDENT OF ST. AUGUSTINE.

I LIVE ON THE BEACH, BUT I HAVE PROPERTIES DOWNTOWN.

BOTH OFFER KING STREET AND BY THE FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH.

I'M VERY, VERY WELL AWARE OF THE PARKING PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE.

HOWEVER, THAT'S NOT WHAT IT'S ABOUT TONIGHT.

THE PARKING PROBLEM THAT'S BEEN IN DOWNTOWN ST.

AUGUSTINE'S SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE FOR 24 YEARS.

WHAT WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT IS A PROJECT WHICH I THINK IS A PRETTY AMAZING PROJECT, LOOKING AT WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THE CITY SINCE I'VE LIVED HERE FULL-TIME, WHICH I BELIEVE HAS BEEN 14 YEARS NOW.

[01:15:01]

I THINK THAT A PROJECT LIKE THIS, IT HAS A MUSEUM, THAT HAS FOOD, AND ARTS, AND LOCAL ARTISTS, AND ENGAGES ENTIRE FAMILIES IS DEFINITELY NEEDED.

WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER JUST BAR AND RESTAURANT IN THIS ENGAGES SO MANY THINGS.

I THINK HENRY FLAGLER AND THE REVITALIZING A LOCOMOTIVE AND HAVING A DINING CAR SOUNDS LIKE A REALLY COOL IDEA TO ME, AND SOMETHING THAT CITY COULD HAVE, AND I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU ENGAGE, WOULD THINK ABOUT IT.

THAT'S REALLY ALL THE COMMENTS THAT I HAVE.

PERHAPS MY SON HAS SOMETHING TO SAY.

>> WHAT A WONDERFUL PLACE TO BRING YOUR [OVERLAPPING].

>> I'M SORRY, MR. NATHAN.

>> ARE YOU KERRY NATHAN.

>> TERRY.

>> NO THIS IS MY SON, TAYLOR HOWTEL.

>> I'M SORRY. I DON'T HAVE A SPEAKER CARD FOR HIM. THIS IS YOUR TIME [OVERLAPPING]

>> IT'S MY SIDE CARE, IT'S OKAY.

>> THAT'S FINE.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME TO FILL OUT A SPEAKER CARD.

BUT THIS IS NOT ABOUT REALTORS, THIS IS NOT ABOUT DEVELOPMENT. THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE.

I THINK THIS PROJECT IS VERY APPROPRIATE, BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. THANK YOU.

>> NEXT SPEAKER IS KERRY NATHAN.

>> NELSON.

>> NELSON. I'M JUST NOT READING THAT VERY WELL.

THEN YOU WILL BE FOLLOWED BY MELINDA RECONSAY.

MR. NELSON, PLEASE GIVE US YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.

>>I'M KERRY NELSON. I LIVE 347 MONTE ON THOSE CIRCLES, ST. AUGUSTINE.

I'M A REALTOR AS WELL.

MY FAMILY'S REALTORS AND SMALL BUSINESS OWNER IN THE AREA.

I'M FOR THIS I KNOW AS THEY'VE ADDRESSED THE PARKING AND THAT'S AN ISSUE THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN AN ISSUE.

WE'RE WELL AWARE OF THAT WE BOUGHT PROPERTY AROUND TOWN, WHEN YOU GUYS STARTED REVITALIZING OWN PROPERTY AND LINCOLN BILL AND THEY WERE ENCOURAGING GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT DONE RIGHT.

I BELIEVE THIS PROJECT IS GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT DONE RIGHT.

I'M IN FAVOR OF IT, AND I HOPE YOU CONSIDER APPROVING THIS. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. MELINDA RECONSAY FOLLOWED BY, WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS AGAIN.

FRANK BAZARRELY, WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU. MELINDA RECONSAY FIRST OF ALL, TO REMIND EVERYONE THIS IS AN APPEAL.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER THE FIVE OF YOU LIKED THIS PROJECT OR NOT.

YOU'RE NOT MAKING A DECISION ON THAT TONIGHT YOU'RE MAKING A DECISION ON WHETHER OR NOT THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD RULED CORRECTLY.

THAT'S ALL YOU'RE RULING ON.

IF THEY WANT TO PRESENT NEW EVIDENCE TONIGHT, THEN SHOULD GO BACK PLANNING AND ZONING.

IF YOU WATCH THE ACTUAL PCB MEETINGS, THEN YOU HEARD FOR YOURSELVES THE REASONS THAT THE PCB MEMBERS FOUND LEGAL, REASONS TO DENY THIS PART APPLICATION.

DO NOT MAKE YOUR JUDGMENTS BASED ON THE QUOTES TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT AND THE ATTORNEYS CONSTANT ARGUMENT THAT THEIR DECISION WAS MADE ON THE CLAMOR OF THE CHORALE.

ONE OF THE IMPORTANT DETERMINATIONS OF GRANTING A POD IS THAT IT BENEFIT THE COMMUNITY AND PROMOTE PUBLIC SAFETY.

THEREFORE, TESTIMONY FROM MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY IS IMPORTANT.

THEIR INPUT, IF GIVEN IN A POLITE AND ORDERLY MANNER, IS NOT DEFINED AS PROCLAIMER OF THE CROWD, WHILE PCB MEMBERS MAY HAVE COMPLEMENTED MR. DETRITUS CONCEPT, THE DENIAL OF THE POD HAD TO DO WITH IT BEING IN THE WRONG LOCATION, AND NOT MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF A POD.

UNLIKE THE CAFE CORTES, APPLICANT WHO PRODUCED PARKING AGREEMENTS, WITH SURROUNDING OWNERS, DEBTORS APPLICATION HAD NO PARKING AGREEMENTS WITH ANYONE.

IN FACT, HE HAD NO OFF-SITE PARKING AT ALL.

X PILUS TALK ABOUT EXPERT TESTIMONY.

X PILUS HERE ARE MOBILITY MANAGER ACTUALLY SENT A LETTER RECOMMENDING A HARD NO, BECAUSE HE KNOWS BETTER THAN ANYONE THAT PARKING IS NON-EXISTENT IN THIS AREA AND TO GRANT SOMETHING WITH NO PARKING WOULD BE IDIOTIC.

NOT ALL COMMERCIAL ZONING AND LAND JUICE IS THE SAME.

THIS IS ZONED AND LAND-USE WISE AND COMMERCIAL WISE LOW, WHILE THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE [NOISE] OTHER MEMBERS FOUND THAT THIS WAS ACTUALLY A TOURIST ATTRACTION.

IT'S GOING TO BE ADVERTISED AS JURIES TO ACTION IS GOING TO HAVE THE TRAILER TRAIN COMING BY IT, COMPLETELY AND SO THAT'S INCONSISTENT WITH THE COMMERCIAL LOW FUTURE LAND USE, AS WELL AS THE LOW DENSITY.

SOMEONE MENTIONED EARLIER, THIS ZONE IS TO BE SERVE THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND BE NEIGHBORHOOD FRIENDLY, WHICH IS THIS DEFINITELY IS NOT.

MEMBERS DETERMINE THE GRANTING OF THE POD AND ITS LOCATION WOULD NOT BE A BENEFIT TO THE PUBLIC AND HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON PUBLIC SAFETY.

[01:20:02]

I ATTENDED ALL THE MEETINGS AND I CAN ATTEST THAT MR. DEBTRY WAS GIVEN NUMEROUS CONTINUANCES AND HOURS TO MAKE HIS CASE FOR THIS POD.

IT WAS A NOT RUSHED JUDGMENT BY A CLOSED MINDED PCB.

DO NOT BE INTIMIDATED BY FANCY LEGAL LANGUAGE OF MR. WHITEHOUSE.

OUR CITY ATTORNEY OVERSAW THE PROCEEDINGS AND HAS A STRONG RECORD OF NOT LETTING CLAMOR THE CROWD GET OUT OF HAND HERE IN ST. AUGUSTINE.

PLEASE UPHOLD THE DENIAL.

>> FRANK BAZARRELY, FOLLOWED BY BRUCE MAGUIRE.

>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE COMMENTS.

>> PLEASE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> HI. MY NAME IS FRANK BAZARRELY.

ONE ELEVEN PORTAL TO DRIVE.

>> THE REASON WHY I'M HERE IS TO SUPPORT THE GENTLEMEN, MR. DEBTRY.

I COMMEND HIM FOR THE VISION AND IN VIGOR TO TRY TO ESTABLISH A VERY GOOD PROJECT HERE, WHICH ISN'T ANY QUITE DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER BUSINESS AND THE WHOLE TOWN.

I THINK HE'S GOING TO DO THE TOWN OF WHOLE SERVICE.

I THINK IT'S A GREAT IDEA.

THERE MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT OF PARKING HERE AND THERE, BUT I'VE BEEN HERE 18 YEARS AND GUESS WHAT? EVERY TIME I'VE BEEN DOWNTOWN, DON'T MATTER WHAT TIME OF DAY, I FIND A PARKING SPOT WITHIN THREE BLOCKS OF DOWNTOWN.

IT'S NOT THAT BAD.

IF YOU COME DOWN HERE AND NIGHTS OF LIGHT, YOU'D BETTER PLAN ON BEING FIVE HOURS AHEAD.

BUT FROM WEEK TO WEEK, DAY TO DAY, IT'S NOT THAT BAD.

WE GOT A PARKING GARAGE, AND WE HAVE FUTURE OTHER PARKING, I GUESS IN THE MYTHS.

I JUST WANT TO TELL ONE LITTLE STORY REAL QUICK [NOISE] ABOUT 40 YEARS AGO, MY SISTER LIVED ACROSS A UNOPENED VACANT LOT, NO MORE THAN 200 FEET AWAY, AND THERE WAS A DAIRY QUEEN PROPOSAL FOR THERE.

ALL HER NEIGHBORS AND HER PROTESTED MARCHED AROUND AND ALL THAT.

EVENTUALLY THE DAIRY QUEEN GOT APPROVED.

WITHIN LESS THAN A YEAR, MY NIECE OR MY SISTER'S DAUGHTER WAS WORKING THERE.

THEY WERE QUITE HAPPY WITH IT.

WHAT YOU THINK IS A BAD IDEA SOMETIMES IS REALLY A GREAT IDEA. AMEN.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. BRUCE MAGUIRE, FOLLOWED BY JACKIE HEARD.

>> HEY, BRUCE MAGUIRE 297 ST. GEORGE STREET.

IT'S INTERESTING OUT OF THE SEVEN PEOPLE SO FAR, FOUR PEOPLE GAVE YOU FACTS AGAINST THIS.

THREE PEOPLE GAVE YOU A MOTION TO SUPPORT IT.

NO FACTS INVOLVED.

BUT LET'S LOOK AT THE OTHER ISSUE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, WHAT'S PARKING.

PARKING IS THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUE ON THIS WHOLE PLAN.

I LIKE THE IDEA OF A RAILROAD THAT I CAN GO EAT AT.

BUT I CONSIDER MYSELF AN EXPERT JUST LIKE JOE TRANGOLEY DOES.

THE LADY CAME UP THAT 125 KING'S STREET BECAUSE WE HAVE BUSINESSES RIGHT THERE.

WE HAVE RESIDENTS RIGHT THERE.

WE LIVE IN THIS AREA SOUTH OF KING STREET AND WE'RE AFFECTED BY YOUR DECISION ON WHAT TO PUT IN, IN TERMS OF TRAFFIC AND PARKING, I GO DOWN RIGHT BARRIERS TREAT EVERY SINGLE DAY.

I KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS STREET AND THE PROBLEMS THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE CITY DO THAT ONLY GO DOWN THERE ONCE IN A WHILE OR THEY READING BOOKS? THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT THE PROBLEM FOR EVERYBODY IN THE CITY BUT THINK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR INTERSECTION.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE INTERSECTION AND RIPARIAN KING, IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS, YOU'RE GOING TO BE FACED WITH UPWARDS OF 1,000 PARKING REQUIREMENTS.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE COLLEGE, THE PUD THAT'S ALREADY ON THE BOOKS.

YOU LOOK AT THE DEVELOPMENT, THE PUD THAT WAS TURNED DOWN.

WE'RE TALKING A LOT OF PARKING REQUIREMENTS. WHERE DO THEY PARK? WE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH OUR PARKING LOT EVERY DAY, PEOPLE COMING IN FROM OTHER BUSINESSES AND WHEN THEY COME INTO OUR PARKING LOT, THEY PREVENT OUR CUSTOMERS FROM COMING IN.

WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THAT? IT'S A PROBLEM THAT YOU CAN'T RESOLVE IF YOU OVERLOOK THE ISSUE AND SAY IT'S A GREAT PROJECT, IS GOING TO BE COOL, IS GOING TO BE NICE, AND PARKING IS NOT AN ISSUE, EXCEPT VERY MINIMALLY.

THAT IS NOT ADDRESSING THE REAL ISSUE.

PARKING IS TRAFFIC IS.

THERE'S NO REASON WHY THIS PROJECT CAN'T BE MOVED TO SOME OTHER PLACE, IN THE TOWN WITH THE SAME CONVENIENCES AND THE COOL LOOK RATHER THAN THIS PARTICULAR SPOT.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, LOOK AT THE FUTURE.

NOT JUST RIGHT NOW, BUT BELIEVED THAT PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE, WHO WORK THERE, WHO HAVE TO SUFFER ALREADY WITH THE CONGESTIONS THAT WE HAVE.

I HOPE AND I ASKED YOU TO PLEASE AFFIRM THE PCB DECISION TO SAY NO.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. JACKIE HEARD,

[01:25:02]

FOLLOWED BY GAIL EUBANKS.

>> DO I NEED TO SAY MY NAME AND ADDRESS.

>> NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE?

>> JACKIE HEARD 122 LA QUINTA PLACE.

>> JACKIE, PULL THE MICROPHONE UP A LITTLE BIT.

>> ABOUT THAT. I WANT TO THANK THE CITY COMMISSION AND MAYOR FOR YOUR TIME AND DEDICATION TO YOUR SERVICE AND TO THIS PROCESS.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD WAS VERY THOROUGH AND EVERY DECISION THAT THEY MADE AND GAVE MR.DETRO MULTIPLE OPPORTUNITIES TO IMPROVE AND I CAN'T REMEMBER THE WORD, BUT TO WORK ON THE PLAN.

WITH EACH MEETING THAT WE HAD AND I ATTENDED ALL THREE MEETINGS, SEVEN HOURS A TIME, AS WELL AS EVERYTHING ELSE.

THE USES WERE INTENSIFIED.

THE ORIGINAL APPLICATION WAS FOR A DISTILLERY, RESTAURANT, A KITCHEN, AND A GIFT SHOP.

IT IS NOW A DISTILLERY ALL THE OTHER USES AND A BREWERY AND A WINERY.

ZONING IS BASED ON GOVERNING FUTURE LAND USE, WHICH IS COMMERCIAL LAW AND THIS PROJECT HAS NOW MORPHED INTO A COMMERCIAL MEDIUM TO ZONING, WHICH WAS SHOWN IN RED ON THE MAP THAT YOU SAW IN THE PRESENTATION EARLIER AND THE CLOSEST VERSION OF THIS IS ON US ONE, WHICH IS WAY IT IS NOT KING STREET AS IT WAS PRESENTED.

PARKING REQUIREMENTS ARE BASED ON A PARCEL BY PARCEL BASIS.

TO CONSIDER OTHER PARCELS IS NOT APPLICABLE BECAUSE EACH PARCEL IS LOOKED AT INDIVIDUALLY.

PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD ASKED FOR THE STUDY BY KIMBERLY HORN TO BE REVIEWED BY CITY STAFF.

I'D LIKE TO ASK IF THAT REVIEW WAS DONE AND IF THERE WAS A CITY RESPONSE THAT WE CAN HEAR ABOUT.

AS A 33 YEAR RESIDENT ON LA QUINTA PLACE I HAVE SEEN MANY CHANGES IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD FOR 17 YEARS THE GIGGLING DATA WAS MY NEIGHBOR.

DURING THAT TIME, PEOPLE WERE CONSTANTLY TRYING PARK IN MY YARD.

MIKE OKINAWA WAS BACKED INTO AND KNOCKED DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.

MY FENCE WAS DESTROYED WHEN A GIRL WAS PUSHED THROUGH IT AND RAPED ON MY PROPERTY.

I FOUND HUMAN FECES AND UNDERWEAR ON MY PROPERTY AND PEOPLE TAKING SHORTCUTS ON FOOT AND EVEN ON MOTORCYCLE.

AS SOON AS THE GIGGLE GATE CLOSED, MY NEIGHBORHOOD BECAME QUIET AND I WAS ABLE TO SLEEP AGAIN.

NOW, IT'S THE POST OFFICE EMPLOYEES AND FLAGLER COLLEGE STUDENTS WHO PARK ON LA QUINTA PLACE.

I'VE WITNESSED THE MAJORITY OF THE PEDESTRIANS WHO PARKED THERE WALK DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET VERSUS USING THE SIDEWALKS.

THE TRAFFIC HAS GOT WORSE ON RIBERIA STREET, OFTENTIMES MAKING IT DIFFICULT TO GET TO AND FROM MY PROPERTY.

RIBERIA STREET HAS A BLIND SPOT WHERE THEY ALL STABILIZES.

THE MINUTE A VEHICLE CLEARS IT AND CAN SEE A GREEN LIGHT, THEY FLUORESCE IT AND MAKE IT CAUSING DANGEROUS SITUATIONS FOR BOTH PEDESTRIANS AND VEHICLES ALIKE.

I FEEL MY 33 YEARS MAKES ME AN EXPERT IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD AND WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO HAVE A LIVABLE SITUATION AND BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO WORK FROM HOME AS I HAVE FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS.

GAIL EUBANKS FOLLOWED BY MADELINE WISE.

>> GOOD EVENING.

>> WELCOME NAME AND ADDRESS, PLEASE.

>> MY NAME IS GAIL EUBANKS, I LIVE IN 57TH TOMOKA TRAIL, ST. AUGUSTINE.

>> THANK YOU FOR APPROVAL OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR LINCOLNVILLE EARLIER IN PREVIOUS MEETING.

BUT IF WE CLOSE THE DOOR, WELL I STAND HERE TOO IN SUPPORT OF MR. DETRIUS PROJECT, WE HAVE HAD DISCUSSIONS WITH MR. DEXTER CONCERNING DISPLAYING AND ALLOWING AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY TO BE BROUGHT INTO HIS ESTABLISHMENT AND WE CLOSED EVERY PLACE THAT WANTED OPEN UP A BUSINESS IN ST. AUGUSTINE, WE WOULD HAVE SHUT IT LONG TIME AGO.

TRAFFIC WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AN ISSUE YEARS AGO, BUT BECAUSE BUSINESSES HAVE COME IN CAUSING TRAFFIC DELAYS THAT THEY NOW WANT TO DENOUNCE IS A DOUBLE STANDARD.

BUT NO PROJECT, NO OWNER THAT HAS APPROACHED OUTGROUPS TO BROADEN OUR HISTORY AND TO POPULACE TO BECOME AWARE OF IT.

NO BUSINESS HAS DONE THAT.

I WAS BORN AND RAISED HERE.

THIS BUILDING WAS A HORSE STABLE FOR THE HORSES THAT DROVE THE BUGGIES ON THE BAY FRONT AND IT'S TRANSITIONED MANY TIMES.

SO TO SAY THAT THERE'S NO HISTORY AND HE WANTS TO BRING FURTHER HISTORY.

I'M JUST IN SUPPORT OF THIS PROJECT AND I APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT HE CAME TO US TO ASK US AND TO SHARE,

[01:30:04]

THAT HE WOULD BE WILLING TO SHARE WITH US HIS HISTORY AND HIS MUSEUM AND IN THIS PROJECT, NO OTHER BUSINESSES HAVE COME TO DO THAT. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. MADELINE WISE, FOLLOWED BY ADRIAN DENSMORE.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON AGAIN.

>> MS. WISE, WILL YOU PULL THAT UP TO YOUR MOUTH, PLEASE.

>> I'M MADELINE WISE FROM WASHINGTON STREET.

I AM ALSO LCRA BUT I AM PRIMARILY LINCOLNVILLE HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND RESTORATION SOCIETY, ANC AND THE REASON I'M STATING THAT IS BECAUSE I RECEIVED THE E-MAIL THIS WEEKEND ABOUT SOMEBODY WAS TELLING LIES THAT WE SUPPORTED, MR. RYAN.

WELL, LET ME CLEAR UP THERE.

HE WAS NOT LYING, HE DID COME AND PRESENT TO US AND MY ORGANIZATION GOT TO QUESTION HIM AND WE TALKED ABOUT THE CONCERNS OF PARK AND DIFFERENT THINGS.

WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT AND ONCE HE SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH US THE OTHER TIMES, WE WERE IN SUPPORT OF HIM JUST LIKE GAIL JUST SAID.

ON THE LAYER I TALKED ABOUT OUR AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY, PRESERVING OUR AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY AND HE WASN'T DOING THIS.

IT WAS SEVERAL THINGS ON IT AND MY THING WAS SOME OF THE SAME PEOPLE THAT ARE WORRIED ABOUT OUR AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY, WHETHER HE'S GONE TO TAILOR IT OR SHARE IT, THOSE SAME PEOPLE DON'T EVEN WANT TO TRY TO TRAIN THE CAMP THROUGH TO LINCOLNVILLE.

SO PEOPLE COULD SEE OUR HISTORY AS WELL AS EVEN WITH THE GALAMO SANTA, THEY DON'T WANT VISITORS DOWN THERE AS WELL.

SO YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS AGAINST YOU FOR OUR HISTORY WHERE YOU'RE NOT.

I AM LINCOLNVILLE, I WAS BORN AND RAISED AND LINCOLNVILLE, AND WE WANT TO SHARE OUR STORY AND LIKE I SAID.

MR RYAN, HE SAID AND EXPLAINED IT TO US.

WE WERE SATISFIED BECAUSE JUST LIKE GAIL JUST SAID, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS TRAFFIC PROBLEM FOR YARBOROUGH.

IT'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE AS SOMETHING IS GOING TO GO THERE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

SOMETHING IS GOING TO GO THERE.

SO WE'RE IN SUPPORT OF IT.

WE JUST ASKED YOU ALL TO SUPPORT IT AS WELL BECAUSE LIKE I SAY, HAPPENED SHARE OUR HISTORY BECAUSE IT'S GRADUALLY GOING AWAY AND LINCOLNVILLE WE FIGHTING, BUT WE'RE NOT REALLY SEEING ANYTHING.

WE HEAR A WHOLE LOT OF TALKING AND EVERYBODY IS ALL FOR IT.

BUT IN THE BACKGROUND, THEY ARE REALLY AGAINST IT.

SO WE JUST ASK THAT YOU SUPPORT.

I'M ASKING THAT YOU SUPPORT BECAUSE, ONE MORE THING, WE DID, QUITE A FEW OF OUR PEOPLE AND LINCOLNVILLE SIGN LETTERS FOR MR. RYAN.

FROM OUR UNDERSTANDING, HE WASN'T ABLE TO PRESENT IT TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.

THEY WOULDN'T ACCEPT THEM AND THOSE WERE LEGITIMATE RESIDENTS THAT HAVE LIVED IN LINCOLNVILLE 70, 80 YEARS.

THEY WEREN'T BAIT UP LETTERS, THEY WEREN'T FORGED LETTERS, THEY WERE LEGIT LETTERS.

SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT AND THANK YOU ALL AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU. ADRIAN DENSMORE, FOLLOWED BY ALEXANDER PEACOCK.

>> I'M ADRIAN DENSMORE.

I LIVE AT 292 CORNELL ROAD, ST. AUGUSTINE.

I AM FOR THIS PROJECT.

SO ST. AUGUSTINE ISN'T LIKE EVERY OTHER CITY, WHICH IS WHY A LOT OF US HAVE DECIDED TO MAKE OUR HOMES HERE.

THAT'S WHY MY HUSBAND AND I MOVED HERE.

WE LOVE THE HISTORY OF THE CITY AND SOMETHING THAT ISN'T SHOWCASED IN THE CITY IS EARLY 20TH CENTURY HISTORY.

IN 1,900, ST. AUGUSTINE WAS THE FIFTH LARGEST CITY IN FLORIDA.

WE DON'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT THAT TIME PERIOD, THE RAILROAD HAD A HUGE IMPACT IN THIS COMMUNITY AND NORTHERN FLORIDA.

I JUST THINK THAT THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE A LITTLE HISTORY THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALLY KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT.

PARKING IS AN ISSUE IN A LOT OF PLACES, BUT IT'S NEVER DETERRED ME FROM GOING DOWNTOWN.

IT'S NEVER PREVENTED ME FROM GOING ON RIBERIA STREET AND THE TROLLEY ISN'T SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO APPEAR THERE.

IT'S ALREADY RUNNING LIKE EVERY HALF HOUR ON RIBERIA STREET.

I JUST THINK THIS IS AMAZING OPPORTUNITY.

I THINK IT'S A ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY THAT WE HAVE AN ERROR, ACCURATE LOCOMOTIVE GOING TO BE BROUGHT HERE AND HAVE MUSIC ON, SORRY, I'M LIKE REALLY NERVOUS [LAUGHTER].

I JUST THINK IT'S A UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY THAT ISN'T GOING TO COME AROUND AGAIN. THAT'S ALL.

[01:35:01]

>> THANK YOU. ALEXANDER PEACOCK, FOLLOWED BY JOSHUA MARCELLO.

>> HI, MY NAME IS ALEXANDER PEACOCK.

I LIVE AT 292 CORNELL ROAD, ST. AUGUSTINE.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY I'M IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION.

I WORK ON A RIBERIA STREET.

I WORK AS A RESTAURANT SERVER AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE I SERVE DURING THE DAY COME VIA THE TROLLEY OR ON FOOT AND IN THE EVENINGS, THEY COME USING RIDESHARE BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE DRINKING ALCOHOL, OR THEY COME ON FOOT AS WELL.

I THINK THAT OFF-SITE PARKING IS ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE IN THIS INSTANCE.

THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN A PROBLEM WITH PARKING AND THE TOURISTS THAT COME INTO THE RESTAURANT WHERE I WORK HAVE LEARNED AND THEY WORK WITH IT.

I THINK MR. DEXTER GOT A GREAT RECORD OF PRODUCING BUSINESSES, ENHANCE OUR TOWN SO I'M IN SUPPORT OF HIS APPLICATION THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU JOSHUA MARCELLO.

>> GOOD EVENING, I'M JOSHUA. I LIVE AT 600 DOMENICO CIRCLE, ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA.

I'VE BEEN HERE FOR A FEW YEARS.

I LOVE THE HISTORY AND ARCHITECTURE HERE.

I THINK THIS CREATIVE AND AMBITIOUS IDEA THAT MR. RYAN HAS COME UP WITH IS A GREAT IDEA AND GOES RIGHT IN LINE WITH LIKE THE OTHER GENTLEMAN SAID A LOT OF THE OTHER BUSINESSES HERE.

I THINK THE MUSEUM IS SOMETHING THAT'S KIND OF THE CENTER POINT, NOT THE RESTAURANT OR THE DISTILLERY, BUT THE MUSEUM AND THE HISTORY IS IMPORTANT AND I HEAR A LOT OF TALK ABOUT PARKING.

I THINK PARKING IS A PROBLEM THE WHOLE TIME I'VE LIVED HERE, BUT I THINK THE PARKING WILL COME INTO PLAY AND I'M IN SUPPORT OF THIS IDEA.

>> THANK YOU. LAWREN KHYBER, FOLLOWED BY JANATA SALLYER.

>> GOOD EVENING, LAWREN KHYBER, LINCOLNVILLE.

FIRST OFF, I WAS ASKED TO SAY THAT MR. WHITEHOUSE SPOKE WELL OVER HIS 20 MINUTES AFTER THE BUZZER RANG, AND EVEN THOUGH WE'RE ONLY ALLOWED THREE MINUTES, WE WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR BEING CONSISTENT WITH PRESENTATIONS LASTING THE ONLY TIME THAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO.

I'VE SENT SEVERAL LETTERS TO YOU.

I FEEL STRONGLY THAT THIS PROJECT IS UNHEALTHY FOR MY NEIGHBORHOOD.

THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE ON THE QUINTA HAVE LIVED HERE FOR YEARS.

THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO QUIET ENJOYMENT OF THEIR HOMES.

THERE IS NO PARKING, NOT FOR STAFF, NOT FOR CUSTOMERS, AND THE NOISE THAT WOULD EMANATE FROM THIS RESTAURANT IS ENOUGH TO SAY NO TO THE PROJECT.

RIBERIA IS THE MAIN STREET TO GET OUT OF LINCOLNVILLE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 1,200 HOMES AND OLD CITY SOUTH AS WELL AS BAY VIEW NURSING HOME.

THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, AMBULANCES, AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT USE IT CONSTANTLY, AS WELL AS THE COAST GUARD.

WE HAVE RESIDENTS, COLLEGE STUDENTS, TOURISTS, WORKERS, AND PARENTS FROM THEIR TRUST THAT RACE UP AND DOWN OUR STREET.

I LIVE ON RIBERIA STREET.

WE ALSO HAVE THE SAN SEBASTIAN HARBOR PROJECT COMING INTO THE AREA.

WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT WILL BRING EXCEPT FOR MORE TRAFFIC AND MORE TOURISTS.

THE LOCAL BUSINESSES ARE CONCERNED WITH PEOPLE THAT WILL PARK IN THEIR LOTS AND THEY WILL END UP HAVING TO GET THEM OR HIRE SOMEONE TO MANAGE THEM AT THEIR EXPENSE.

I UNDERSTAND FROM MANY PEOPLE THAT ST. AUGUSTINE HAS BEEN A TOURIST TOWN SINCE 1890.

BUT HOW MANY PEOPLE CAME TO VISIT? CERTAINLY, THE DECORUM OF THE AGE WAS DIFFERENT.

I WANTED TO DISCUSS EXHIBIT F, COMMON GROUNDS COFFEE, WHICH IS A ZONED COMMERCIAL MEDIUM ZONE 2.

IT RECEIVED A VARIANCE FOR EIGHT PARKING SPOTS AND THE OWNER OF 124 KING STREET HAS BEEN PAYING FOR SIX SPOTS.

LITERALLY, RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET AT THE FIRST UNITED METHODIST CHURCH.

EVEN WHILE THERE WAS NOTHING AT THE SPACE HE HAS BEEN PAYING FOR THOSE SPOTS.

CORTES MUSEUM, ALSO ZONED COMMERCIAL MEDIUM ZONE 2, LOCATED AT SAN MARCO, ALSO HAD NO NOISE EMANATING FROM THE STREET.

THERE IS NO RESIDENTIAL HOMES IN THEIR IMMEDIATE VICINITY, THEIR COURTROOM, THEY'RE OPEN FOR LUNCH AND DINNER, BUT THERE ARE NO RESIDENTIAL HOMES.

THERE'S A RED TRAIN TROLLEY PARKING LOT,

[01:40:03]

AND ACROSS THE STREET THERE'S PARKING.

HE HAS AGREEMENTS WITH OTHER LOCAL BUSINESSES FOR PARKING.

>> THANK YOU. GENETIS ABAYERO. WELCOME.

>> I'M DONE. THANK YOU.

>> I PUT THE EASIER ONE ON THEIR PHONE.

>> YES, YOU CONFUSED ME FOR A MINUTE.

>> ASSEMBLER 0105 COLOGNE AVENUE, ST. AUGUSTINE.

I WANTED TO STATE A FEW FACTS AS WELL.

I AM IN SUPPORT OF THE PROJECT.

I THINK PUDS AND THINGS OF THIS NATURE GET MUDDIED BECAUSE OF THE WORDS CREATIVE AND INNOVATIVE AND FLEXIBLE USE, MIXED USE.

I SEE A LOT OF CONFUSION AROUND THAT AND DISPARITY FROM RESIDENTS AND I KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF YOUNG ENTREPRENEURIAL PEOPLE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY THAT WANT TO HAVE BUSINESSES THAT DO MULTIPLE THINGS INSIDE OF A BUSINESS.

I WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT.

ALSO, THE USE OF A MARKET AT THIS PROPERTY WOULD BE A GREAT USE.

IT IS A FOOD DESERT LINCOLNVILLE.

THERE IS NOT A LOCAL MARKET WITHIN LINCOLNVILLE WHERE YOU CAN WALK IN, PICK UP SOME ANYTHING, A SANDWICH OR ANYTHING.

AS FAR AS LOCOMOTIVE HISTORY AND HENRY FLAGLER, I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT MR. DUTCH'S RECORD, YOU'LL FIND THAT HE'S PROBABLY THE CLOSEST PERSON TO A HENRY FLAGLER WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY.

THE ICE PLANT WAS HIS IDEA, TOOK A LONG TIME TO GET APPROVED AND DO THE THINGS AND OPEN IT UP.

BUT IT'S A BEACON WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY THAT TOURISTS COME AND SEE.

HIS WORK AT CAFE 11 AND WITH THE AMPHITHEATER HAVE ALL BEEN TO IMPROVE OUR TOURIST ECONOMY.

THE CALIBER OF ST. AUGUSTINE COMMUNITY CULTURE.

I WANTED TO STATE SOME OF THOSE THINGS, AS WELL AS HISTORY AND FAMILY ATTRACTION IN THAT AREA OF RIBERIA.

I ALSO THINK LASTLY GOING BACK TO THE NIGHTLIFE ORDINANCE, WHAT A GREAT PLACE FOR A RIDE SHARE STOP.

YOU HAVE THE ICE PLANT THERE, YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE THERE, YOU HAVE A DISTILLERY THERE.

SEEMS LIKE A PERFECT LOCATION FOR A RIDE SHARE PICKUP AND DROP-OFF.

I WANTED TO SUGGEST SOME VIABLE SOLUTIONS AND ALSO JUST STATE THAT I AM IN FAVOR OF THIS PROJECT.

I'M IN FAVOR OF YOUNG INNOVATIVE, VISIONARY BUSINESS PEOPLE WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY. THAT'S ALL.

>> THANK YOU. HERBERT GALLON, FOLLOWED BY PHIL MCDANIEL.

>> HI, I'M HERBERT GALLON, 5 TEMPERTON STREET.

I WILL SAY THE SOUTH.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MAYOR AND COMMISSIONERS.

I THINK THE PCB GOT IT RIGHT.

THIS WILL HAVE A REAL NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

PERSONALLY, I THINK PUDS ARE FINE.

I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THEM.

THEY'RE AN ESCAPE VALVE FOR MISS ZONED PROPERTIES, BUT THIS PROPERTY IS NOT MISS ZONED.

IT ZONED CURRENTLY LOW-INTENSITY, AND AS MR. WHITEHOUSE SAYS THAT HE COULD PUT 100 SEAT RESTAURANT THERE, THAT'S TRUE.

BUT UNDER THE CURRENT AND ORDINANCES AND MOBILITY PLAN, YOU'D HAVE TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE PARKING FOR THAT AS WELL.

THEY CAN ALSO SERVE ALCOHOL AS LONG AS IT'S 14% ABV OR LESS.

HE BOUGHT US CL1.

YOU SHOULD DEVELOP IT AS A CL1.

HAVING A PUD AND HAVING A ZONING CHANGE IS NOT A RIGHT.

YES, IT IS A COMMERCIAL CORRIDOR.

MR. WHITEHOUSE SHOWED YOU PICTURES GOING NORTH, SOUTH, AND WEST.

HE DOES NOT SHOW YOU A PICTURE GOING EAST ALONG LA QUINTA AND THAT'S BECAUSE THERE ARE RESIDENCES ON BOTH SIDES OF LA QUINTA STREET GOING ALL THE WAY UNTIL ONE OR TWO DOORS AWAY FROM MARTIN LUTHER KING.

THOSE RESIDENTS ARE THE PEOPLE THAT YOU REALLY NEED TO KEEP IN MIND BECAUSE THEIR LIVES AND THEIR PROPERTIES ARE GOING TO BE DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY PLACING A HIGH-INTENSITY PROJECT RIGHT THERE.

I PERSONALLY LIVE IN OLD CITY SOUTH.

RIBERIA IS A MAJOR ENTRY AND EXIT CORRIDOR FOR ALL OF THE SOUTH OF KING RESIDENCES AND NEIGHBORHOODS.

IT'S ALREADY A BOTTLENECK WITH THE ICE PLANT, THE ST. AUGUSTINE DISTILLERY, THE FISH CAMP, AND IN THE FUTURE THE MARRIOTT AND THE RESORT THAT'S GOING IN,

[01:45:03]

IT'S GOING TO BE WITH ADDING A TROLLEY STOP, ADDING MORE TRAFFIC.

YOU'RE JUST GOING TO BE PUTTING A HIGH-INTENSITY OPERATION WHICH WILL MAKE THE ENTIRE SITUATION ALONG RIBERIA STREET THAT MUCH WORSE.

I'M ASKING YOU TO PLEASE UPHOLD THE DENIAL OF THIS PROJECT AND THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. PHIL MCDANIEL, FOLLOWED BY BRIAN CROWDER.

>> GOOD EVENING. AGAIN, THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER PHIL MCDANIEL, 1-12 RIBERIA STREET.

I'M CURRENTLY THE CEO ST. AUGUSTINE DISTILLERY AND I'M ASKING YOU TO PLEASE UPHOLD THE PCBS DECISION TO DENY THIS APPLICATION.

THE PCB BOAT WAS MADE LAWFULLY AND BASED ON SUBSTANTIAL AND COMPETENT EVIDENCE.

ACCORDING TO THE STAFF REPORT, THE PROPOSED PUD WAS, QUOTE, "NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD." THAT IT WOULD HAVE A NEGATIVE EFFECT ON THE COMMUNITY AND THAT A MORE DETAILED INFORMATION, ESPECIALLY REGARDING THE PARKING PLAN WAS NOT PROVIDED AND ITS PARKING THAT IS OUR CONCERN.

WITHOUT ON-SITE PARKING, THEIR EMPLOYEES, THEIR SUPPLIERS, VENDORS, AND VISITORS WILL LOOK TO PARK IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND IN NEARBY BUSINESSES, SOME OF WHICH HAVE ALREADY CONTACTED YOU ABOUT THEIR CONCERNS.

WE ALL KNOW AND LIKE THE APPLICANT, RYAN AND HIS FAMILY, THIS IS NOT ABOUT HIM, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PROJECT.

WE ALL THINK IT'S A COOL IDEA.

EVERYBODY IS SAYING IT.

THE ISSUE IS THE LACK OF PARKING AND HOW IT'S GOING TO IMPACT OUR BUSINESSES.

BECAUSE WITHOUT ON-SITE PARKING, THEIR GUESTS WILL PARK IN OUR LOTS.

WE WILL HAVE TO POLICE OUR LOTS.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO THREATEN TO TOW PEOPLE AND BELIEVE ME, NOBODY WANTS TO BE THAT GUY.

WE HAVE ALL PLANNED FOR, WE'VE PAID FOR AND PROVIDED ON-SITE PARKING FOR OUR GUESTS AND ANY NEW BUSINESS IN THIS AREA NEEDS TO BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD.

ONE OF THE AREAS MOST EXPERIENCED BUSINESSMAN, JOE TRANGOLEY WANTED TO SPEAK TONIGHT.

UNFORTUNATELY, JOE'S OUT OF TOWN WITH A FAMILY OBLIGATION AND HE ASKED THAT I READ AND SUBMIT A LETTER TO YOU DUE TO THE THREE-MINUTE LIMITATION, I'M ONLY GOING TO BE ABLE TO READ A FEW EXCERPTS AND THEN I'LL GIVE YOU HIS FULL LETTER FOR THE RECORD.

THIS IS FROM JOE. "I WANT TO THANK THE COMMISSION FOR LISTENING TO THE NEIGHBORS AND BUSINESSES MOST IMPACTED BY THIS PROJECT.

THEIR VOICES SHOULD WEIGH HEAVILY INTO YOUR DECISION.

I AM A LIFELONG RESIDENT OF ST. AUGUSTINE AND HAVE OWNED BUSINESSES IN THIS AREA FOR 33 YEARS.

WE OWN THE SHELL GAS STATION, CARMELO'S PIZZA, 123 BURGER HOUSE AT THE CORNER OF RIBERIA AND KING, JUST 300 FEET FROM THE PROPOSED SITE.

PARKING IS A HUGE ISSUE IN THIS PART OF TOWN.

I RECENTLY HAD TO BUY THE GIGGLING GATOR BECAUSE I LOST MY PARKING LEASE ON THE CORNER OF RIBERIA AND SAN SEBASTIAN HARBOR.

THE DEVELOPER THERE NEEDED THAT LOCKED BACK FOR HIS HOTEL PROJECT.

I ENDED UP PAYING $800,000 JUST FOR PARKING FOR MY EMPLOYEES.

IT WAS EXPENSIVE, BUT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE SAFETY OF OUR CUSTOMERS.

IT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT OFF-SITE PARKING DOES NOT WORK.

WHEN I LEASED THE SPACE FROM SA MARINA, IT WAS REALLY ONLY USED BY MY EMPLOYEES AND DESPITE ALL THE SIGNS, CUSTOMERS WOULD STILL PARK AS CLOSE TO THE RESTAURANT AS POSSIBLE.

THEY DID NOT FEEL SAFE PARKING AT LEASED LOT AND WALKING ACROSS RIBERIA STREET.

I AM CONCERNED FOR THE SAFETY OF THE VISITORS TO THE SITE BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC MOBILITY ISSUES.

I THINK IT'S AN EXCITING PROJECT, BUT AS PROPOSED, IT'S IN THE WRONG LOCATION.

I ASK THAT THE CITY COMMISSION VOTE TO UPHOLD THE PCBS DENIAL OF THIS PROJECT." THANK YOU, JOE TRANGOLEY.

I'M GOING TO PASS HIS LETTER TO.

BRIAN CROWDER, FOLLOWED BY HEATHER DETRA.

> HELLO. MY NAME IS BRIAN CROWDER.

I LIVE ON 24 LEWIS STREET IN SAINT AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA.

I'VE LIVED HERE OFF AND ON SINCE 2002 AND LIVE IT ACTUALLY IN LINCOLNVILLE SINCE THEN.

I REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST MOVED HERE, YOU COULDN'T EVEN REALLY RIDE A BICYCLE DOWNRIGHT BURIES, BECAUSE IT WAS SO FULL OF POTHOLES, AND EVERY BUILDING WAS DERELICT.

THE ICE PLANT ITSELF, SOMETHING THAT RYAN TOOK OVER AS A PROJECT WAS OWNED BY FP&L, BUT DEFINITELY EMPTY AND EVERY OTHER BUILDING WAS EMPTY.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE ONE SPACE IN THIS WHOLE AREA IN LINCOLNVILLE THAT HAS BEEN NEGLECTED AND ALSO SEEMS LIKE A PLACE OF LACK OF SAFETY.

I WORKED WITH ICE PLANT AND WE HAVE SERVERS WHO FEAR WALKING PAST THAT PLACE.

IF ANYONE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO TAKE UP SPACE IN SAINT AUGUSTINE OR HEAD A PROJECT AND DO A GOOD JOB TO HELP THE NEIGHBORHOOD, RYAN DETRA IS GOING TO BE ONE.

HIS TRACK RECORD SHOWS THAT TIME AND TIME AGAIN, HE'S LED MINI-PROJECTS, THE ICE PLANT IS ONE.

HE WAS HEAD IN LEADING THE AMPHITHEATER.

IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO MAKE THE AREA BETTER AND IF PARKING IS NEEDED TO BE FOUND, RYAN DETRA WILL ANSWER THAT AND MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

THANK YOU. I APPROVE THIS PROJECT.

>> THANK YOU. HEATHER DETRA, FOLLOWED BY LISA KINSELLA.

[01:50:08]

>> HEATHER DETRA, 33 DAVID STREET.

>> YOU'LL SPEAK UP TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE.

>> HEATHER DETRA, 33 DAVID STREET.

I'VE STATED THROUGH ALL OF OUR PCB MEETINGS HOW DIFFICULT THIS IS, THIS PROJECT.

I'VE STOOD NEXT TO MY HUSBAND WHO IS SO PASSIONATE.

I'VE WATCHED HIM CRY THROUGH ALL OF THESE MEETINGS.

ONE THING THAT HASN'T BEEN MENTIONED IS OUR FIGHT WITH THE DISTILLERY AND HOW UGLY THAT HAS ACTUALLY BEEN, AND FOR SOMEONE TO FIGHT SO HARD TO RUIN OUR PROJECT, AND HOW HARD THAT IS FOR OUR FAMILY OF EIGHT, SIX KIDS AND THEN RYAN AND I, AND THAT WE HAD TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THIS AND THEN TO TURN AROUND AND HAVE A PROJECT, AND HANE SAID THAT THIS IS ALL GOOD AND DANDY EXCEPT FOR PARKING.

FUNNY ENOUGH, HE ONLY HAS 16 PARKING SPACES AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS THE ICE PLANT.

AND SO IF HE WANTS TO STAND UP AND SAY THAT PARKING IS THE PROBLEM, WELL, I THINK FAIR IS FAIR AND RIGHT AND RIGHT, AND WE SHOULD PLAY IT ALL FAIR, AND IT'S NOT FAIR RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE THERE ARE PARKING SPOTS WHEN WE GO IN ON A SUNDAY, THAT IS ALL DISTILLERY.

OUR RESTAURANT ISN'T EVEN OPENED, AND WE'RE STILL FIGHTING FOR THAT.

THEN WE'RE BEING TOLD THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE PARKING COORDINATORS AND SECURITY.

WELL, ON YOUR 16 PARKING SPACES, I'M VERY CONFUSED.

IT'S BEEN A COMPLICATED SITUATION AND THIS IS UNFORTUNATE.

I'M VERY SORRY THAT THIS IS WHAT IT'S COME TO.

BUT MY HUSBAND HAS A GREAT IDEA AND HE'S BEING TURNED DOWN AND I'M GETTING GOLF DAT BEHIND ME BY SOMEONE SITTING NEXT TO HIM AND BEING TOLD, DO YOU WANT TO STARE AT ME MORE? IT'S VERY UPSETTING, AND I REST.

>> LISA KINSELLA, FOLLOWED BY NANCY PELOSIA.

>> HI, GOOD EVENING. MY NAME IS LISA KINSELLA.

I LIVE ON VALENCIA STREET AND I WORK ON RIBERIA STREET.

I'M EXACTLY THE VOICE THAT SO MANY HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT WE NEED TO LISTEN TO.

I WALK EIGHT MINUTES TO MY JOB.

WHEN I PICK UP SHIFTS, THAT ICE PLANT, AND THE MAJORITY OF MY GUESTS ALSO WALK OR THEY GET OFF THE TROLLEY.

I HAVE VERY FEW THAT RIDE THEMSELVES OR TAKING UBERS, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT.

I WALK PAST THE AREA THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

EVERY NIGHT WHEN I GET OFF A SHIFT LATE NIGHT, THERE'S NO LIGHTING.

THE IDEA THAT THERE COULD BE ANOTHER SIDEWALK IS REALLY EXCITING TO ME AS WELL, BECAUSE SOMETHING IS GOING TO GO INTO THIS PLACE.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A BUSINESS THAT'S THERE.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PARKING, I PERSONALLY DON'T SEE THAT AS AN ISSUE.

THE MAJORITY OF MY GUESTS THAT I SERVE DON'T SEE THAT AS AN ISSUE.

I'M ALSO A MEMBER OF THE PHI BETA KAPPA.

YOU HAVE CHAPTER OF OUR HISTORICAL SOCIETY THERE, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I CAME BACK TO ST. AUGUSTINE.

I GREW UP HERE. MY FAMILY HAS PROPERTY IN CRESCENT BEACH AFTER MY FATHER RETIRED AT NES.

I'VE SEEN THIS WHOLE AREA CHANGE.

THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN TRAFFIC.

EVEN WHEN I WALK ACROSS KING STREET OR RIBERIA, JUST ON A DAILY BASIS WALKING MY DOG OR COMING TO WORK, NOT A PROBLEM.

WALK RIGHT ACROSS.

I WALK ACROSS WITH ALL THE TOURISTS.

WE HAVE 2 MILLION TOURISTS A YEAR IN ST. AUGUSTINE, THE MAJORITY OF WHICH ARE WALKING THROUGH THE STREETS.

THERE'S THE NEW BIKING THAT'S BEEN SET UP, LITTLE BIKE SPOTS THAT ARE FOR RENT, I BELIEVE.

I SAW THAT POP UP IN THE LAST YEAR.

A LOT OF TOURISTS ARE RIDING THOSE AS WELL.

IF YOU HAVE A NEW PLACE THAT'S WILLING TO PROVIDE LOCATIONS FOR BICYCLES, A RIDE-SHARE DROPOFF, A NEW SIDEWALK, LIGHTING, IT IS TRUE, LATE NIGHT WHEN WE'RE WALKING DOWN THE STREET THAT SOME PEOPLE DON'T FEEL SAFE WALKING TO THE CURRENT PARKING SPACES.

ALL OF THAT I THINK IS POSITIVE AND I DO SUPPORT THIS PROJECT.

>> THANK YOU. NANCY PELOSIA FOLLOWED BY PAUL CRAFT.

>> NANCY PELOSIA OR 31 SPANISH.

I WASN'T GOING TO COME BACK AFTER THE LAST TIME, BUT THIS IS PART OF

[01:55:02]

AN ESTABLISHED PART BECAUSE I REMEMBER GOING BY AS A CHILD AND SEEING THE HORSES THERE.

SEEING WHAT GOES ON, THIS LOT OF WHICH WILL NOT HAVE THE HORSES, THE BARNS OR ANYTHING ELSE IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

I WANTED TO SAY THAT EVERY TIME ANYTHING HAS HAPPENED, THE CITY COMMISSION HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY REASSURING THAT A PUD IF YOU GIVE IT TO THIS PERSON, THE NEXT ONE THAT COMES UP AND ASKS FOR IT, EVERYONE IS INDIVIDUALLY LOOKED AT, EVALUATED, AND DECIDED ON.

IT'S NOT IF THIS PERSON GETS IT, THEN YOU GET IT.

THAT'S NOT THE WAY ST. AUGUSTINE HAS DEVELOPED AND IT SHOULDN'T HAVE DEVELOPED THAT WAY BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS VERY UNIQUE.

I THINK SOME OF THE QUESTIONS ABOUT PARKING AND PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN PARKING SOMEWHERE ELSE, IT'S BECAUSE IT'S HAD AN ESTABLISHED BUILDING ON THAT LOT.

I THOUGHT MR. WHITEHOUSE WAS REFERRING TO THE CATHOLIC DAUGHTERS WHO ON THE CORNER OF RIBERIA AND KING, AND THAT BUILDING TAKES UP THE ENTIRE LOT.

THERE IS NO PLACE FOR PARKING.

BUT THIS LOT WILL BE A CLEAN SLATE, SO THEIR PARKING COULD BE INCLUDED.

HOWEVER, I WANT TO THINK THAT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT THINGS, IT'S LIKE FIVE DIFFERENT BUSINESSES ON ONE LOT AND THEY'RE ALL GOOD.

BUT IT MAKES FOR A VERY DENSE PROJECT RIGHT THERE AND A VERY BUSY ALREADY.

FOR ANYBODY WHO THINKS THERE'S NOT CONGESTION, THEY'RE BACKED UP FROM THE LIGHT AT KING STREET.

THEY ARE NOT GOING AT THE RIGHT TIMES BECAUSE I CAN'T GET OUT LOTS OF TIMES AND IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE.

EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT PARKING.

TRAFFIC HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PROBLEM? YES, IT HAS.

IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE BECAUSE WE'RE NOT JUST GOING TO HAVE 2 MILLION, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT MORE MILLION, BECAUSE WE ARE WORKING HARD TO BRING THEM.

YOU NEED TO THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT THIS BECAUSE OF WHAT'S COMING IN THE FUTURE AS WELL AS WHAT'S GOING IN THAT LOT RIGHT NOW.

I THINK HE HAS SOME VERY GOOD IDEAS.

I'D LOVE TO SEE A RAILROAD AND MUSEUM BECAUSE MY FATHER WAS A RAILROAD MAN, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU CAN PUT EVERYTHING ON THAT ONE PIECE OF PROPERTY AND NO ONE'S WALKING THERE AT NIGHT.

I REALLY DON'T THINK, AND THE TRAILER TRAIN STOP AT A CERTAIN TIME.

RIDE-SHARING MIGHT BE GREAT AND IT MIGHT BE MUCH MORE AVAILABLE, BUT I DON'T SEE THAT WHERE I LIVE. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. PAUL CRAFT, FOLLOWED BY PAISLEY FEDORA.

>> PAUL CRAFT, I LIVE AT 1113 SEYCHELLES COURT IN ST. AUGUSTINE.

MY WIFE AND I HAD BEEN COMING HERE FOR 40 YEARS TO ST. AUGUSTINE.

WE MOVED HERE ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO.

A BIG PART OF THE APPEAL FOR US IS THE HISTORICITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE.

I GREW UP IN VIRGINIA OUTSIDE OF DC.

I HAVE A PICTURE OF THIS LOCOMOTIVE THAT I USED TO VISIT AT THE SMITHSONIAN DOWNTOWN.

THAT WAS A BIG DRAW AT THAT MUSEUM.

WE JUST LOVED THIS CITY.

WE LOVE THE HISTORY.

FLAGLER, AS PEOPLE HAVE NOTED, WAS A MAJOR PERSON IN ALL OF FLORIDA, BUT BECAUSE OF THE RAILROADS AND THERE REALLY IS NOTHING ABOUT THE RAILROADS IN ST. AUGUSTINE OTHER THAN READING THE SIGN ABOUT FLAGLER.

I THINK THIS WOULD BE A GREAT THING.

I THINK IT IS FAMILY FRIENDLY.

I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THE HUNT.

I'M NOT GETTING ANY MONEY FOR SAYING THIS.

I'M SAYING IT BECAUSE NOW MY GRANDCHILDREN WOULD ENJOY SEEING A DISPLAY LIKE THAT WITH THE MUSEUM AND THE TRAIN.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD ENJOY THE RESTAURANT.

I THINK IT WOULD BE LOW KEY.

I DON'T SEE THEM PUTTING BIG SPEAKERS OUTSIDE AND MAKING A LOT OF NOISE.

IF IT'S IDIOTIC, THAT IT HAS NO PARKING THAN IT'S IDIOTIC THAT CASA IRENA, HARRY'S OF RIVER IN FORT HAVE NO PARKING.

THIS PLACE WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW IS EIGHT MINUTES AWAY FROM A WALK, WHICH IS NOTHING IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT ST. AUGUSTINE PROPER.

I JUST WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO HAVE A VISION.

I THINK YOU DO. I THINK A LOT OF THE DEVELOPMENT HAS BEEN INTELLIGENT HERE IN THIS CITY.

I'VE SEEN A LOT OF CHANGE OVER 40 YEARS COMING HERE.

BUT I THINK IT'S A GREAT PROJECT.

AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THE HUNT OTHER THAN I THINK MY GRANDCHILDREN REALLY ENJOY IT.

I THINK IT COULD BE NEIGHBORHOOD FRIENDLY FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE.

I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS ABOUT THE PARKING,

[02:00:02]

BUT THERE ARE TROLLEYS, IT'S WALKABLE.

I JUST THINK IT'D BE A GREAT ADDITION. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. PAISLEY FEDORA.

>> THIS DOWN A LITTLE BIT. PAISLEY FEDORA, I LIKE FEDO, FEDORA.

ONE-THIRTY SIXTH KINGSLAND, ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA.

I BELIEVE ALL OF US HERE TONIGHT LOVES ST. AUGUSTINE, AND WE WANT TO PRESERVE ITS HISTORY WHILE SUPPORTING AND PROTECTING THE ECONOMIC GROWTH.

I HOPE THE COMMISSION WILL APPROVE THE APPLICATION TO APPEAL THIS REZONING DECISION, AS I FULLY SUPPORT THE RAILROAD RETROSPECTIVE MIXED USE PUD.

I DEEPLY APPLAUD THE APPLICANT, RYAN DEBTOR, FOR BRINGING A TANGIBLE PIECE OF ST. AUGUSTINE HISTORY BACK TO THE AREA FOR RESIDENTS AND VISITORS ALIKE TO EXPERIENCE.

IT'S EXCITING TO HAVE TO RAIL TRAINS RIGHT HERE IN DOWNTOWN.

PEOPLE ARE COMING TO SEE HISTORIC ESTABLISHMENTS ONLY IN DOWNTOWN.

THE INTERACTIVE MUSEUM, EXCLUSIVE RESTAURANT, DISTILLERY EXPERIENCE AND MARKETPLACE SUPPORTING LOCAL ARTISANS.

EACH PIECE WORKS TOGETHER, AND THAT'S WHAT EACH PIECE IS NEEDED TO MAKE THE PROPERTY A PROFITABLE BUSINESS.

THE PROPERTY IS CURRENTLY ZONED COMMERCIAL, AS ARE THE SURROUNDING PARCELS WITH EXISTING RESTAURANTS SERVING ALCOHOL, AS WELL AS THE DISTILLERY AND WINERY.

THERE OVER 50 SHORT-TERM RENTALS WITHIN A THREE BLOCK RADIUS OF THE ADDRESS.

THE ZONING IS AN ESTABLISHED AREA OF THE CITY AND ONE THAT IS WELL UNDERWAY IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE OUR CITY IS BUILT UPON TOURISM.

THE APPLICANT ACCOMMODATE ALL QUESTIONS AND SUGGESTIONS OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.

HE IS PREPARED AND COMMITTED AND PROVIDING OFF STREET PARKING IN SUPPORTING ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION.

I LOVED THE IDEA OF ADVERTISING NO PARKING ON-SITE AND KEEPING TRAFFIC AWAY.

THIS ALIGNS WITH THE CITY'S MOBILITY PLAN, WHICH PROMOTES TRANSITIONING TOWARD A MULTI-MODAL SYSTEM FOCUSED ON PROVIDING PEOPLE WITH CHOICES TO WALK, BIKE, RIDE A TROLLEY, OR USE NEW FORMS OF TRANSPORTATION TO MOVE ABOUT THE CITY AND REDUCE TRAFFIC ON NEIGHBORING STREETS.

I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT THE ESTABLISHMENT WILL BE WELL OPERATED, SAFE, AND SUCCESSFUL GIVEN THE CREATIVE AND INNOVATIVE VISION AND PROFESSIONAL TRACK RECORD OF THE APPLICANT, WHICH YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT MIGHT COME NEXT AS OTHERS HAVE SAID.

I HOPE YOU WILL SUPPORT THE APPEALS SO THAT THIS RAILROAD RETROSPECTIVE PUD IS APPROVED TO MOVE FORWARD.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU. I HAVE ONE SPEAKER CARD LEFT.

THIS IS EVERYBODY'S LAST CHANCE.

IF YOU HAVEN'T PUT A SPEAKER CARD IN, HAVEN'T HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.

THE LAST SPEAKER WE HAVE AS VIJAY KHOLAYDE.

>> MS. DUNN, CAN WE GET SOME HELP HERE?

>> GET RID OF THE PICTURE.

>> THANK YOU. NOW, CAN I PUT MY PICTURE DOWN? THANK YOU.

BJ CALAIS TO WEST CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE.

FACTS IN SEPTEMBER 2023, EMAILS SHOULD BE CIRCLED WHEN SENT TO THE COURT.

IF THIS GOES TO THE COURT, SINCE THE LAWYERS CIRCLED STATEMENTS, THE DEVELOPER NEVER STATED HE PAID FOR THE LOCOMOTIVE AND HAS POSSESSION OF IT.

DESI THE APPEAL TAGS, PCB BOARD COMMENTS OUT OF CONTEXTS.

BRINGING OTHER DECISIONS BY PCB IS COMPARING APPLES TO THIS SOUR GRAPE PUD, THE DISTILLERY WEST OR RIBERIA STRAIGHT, WHICH GEORGE MCLAURIN REPRESENTED, IS NOT ZONE CR1, FEBRUARY 18, 2023, FRIDAY REVIEW, ATTENDED BY ME, THE CITY'S EXPERTS STAFF, JONATHAN FOSTER AND JACOB FREDRICKSON, CLEARLY STATED THE FACTS IN SECTION 208206.

LIGHT MANUFACTURING IS NOT AN ALLOWED USE BY RIGHT OR EXCEPTION.

THERE ARE NO ZONING DISTRICTS WITHIN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE THAT ALLOW FOR BOTH RESTAURANTS AND ALCOHOL MANUFACTURING USES.

THE TRANSCRIPT CONTAINS THESE FACTS.

PLEASE DO MOTION TO DENY THE APPEAL.

COMBINED WITH DENIAL OF A MODIFICATION IF PRESENTED, CONFIRMED THE PCB RECOMMENDATION TO DENY THE REZONING APPLICATION.

THE DENIAL WILL PROTECT THE HEALTH, SAFETY, AND WELFARE OF THOSE RESIDING AND TRAVELING THIS AREA OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE AND FIGHTING WITH ANOTHER DISTILLERY.

IT'S INTERESTING INFORMATION.

THERE'S ALSO INFORMATION IF VERY ONE IN THIS ROOM WOULD LIKE TO RAISE THEIR HAND IF THEY'VE EVER HAD A DUI AND WHERE THEY GOT THE ALCOHOL WHENEVER THEY WERE ARRESTED FOR DUI.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE WANTS TO RAISE THEIR HAND, BUT I THINK NEED TO REALIZE WHO WE ARE DEALING WITH. THANK YOU.

[02:05:06]

>> I DID JUST GET ONE SPEAKER CARD.

MS. DECLARE AGAIN.

ANYONE ELSE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK?

>> THANK YOU, DENISE DE CLARE.

I WANT TO COMMEND MR. DETRA ON THE PASSION HE BRINGS TO THIS PROJECT.

BUT I'M GOING TO ASK THAT YOU UPHOLD THE PZB'S DECISION.

HE'S GOING TO COME UP AND TALK A LOT ABOUT THE COMMUNITY.

AND IN THE AUGUST 1ST PZB MEETING, WE KNEW THERE WERE 19 NOTICES SENT FROM THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, AND SUDDENLY THERE WERE 92 RESPONSES FROM ALL OVER THAT WERE SUPPORTING HIS PROJECT.

SORRY, MY PAGE IS STICKING.

I DID A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST AND I WENT THROUGH ALL OF THE LETTERS OF SUPPORT.

THEY WERE FROM NEPTUNE BEACH ALL OVER THE PLACE.

THERE WERE SOME FROM OUR AREA 32084, SOME FROM WEST AUGUSTINE AS WELL, BUT THE MAJORITY OF THEM WE'RE PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF DOWNTOWN ST. AUGUSTINE.

MR. DETRA WILL MENTION THAT, MAYBE HE'LL MENTIONED IN HIS PRESENTATION THAT HE'S MET A LOT WITH THE COMMUNITY.

HE DID HAVE A MEETING, BUT WE WERE NEVER NOTIFIED.

FOUR PEOPLE SHOWED UP, I BELIEVE IT WAS MOSTLY THE [INAUDIBLE] RESIDENTS.

I DO VOLUNTEER AS A SECRETARY OF THE LINCOLNVILLE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION.

NOBODY'S EVER REACHED OUT TO OUR ASSOCIATION TO SET UP A MEETING AT THE GALIMORE CENTER.

WE DO NEWSLETTERS, OUR LAST ONE THE TITLE WAS I RECOMMEND A HARD NO.

IT REFERS TO THE LETTER THAT MR. PELLICER SENT TO STAFF SAYING HE RECOMMENDED A HARD NO ON THIS PROJECT.

WE HAVE OVER 600 FOLLOWERS ON OUR LNA FACEBOOK PAGE.

WE TRIED TO DO A REALLY GOOD JOB OF COMMUNICATING TO OUR MEMBERS.

MR. DETRA, AT THE JULY 5TH MEETING TALKED ABOUT THE HISTORY YOU WANTED TO PROMOTE.

IT FOCUSED MAINLY ON THE LOCOMOTIVE MUSEUM.

AT THE AUGUST 1ST MEETING, HE TALKED ABOUT OUR INDUSTRIAL PAST.

HE'S ALSO MENTIONED THE SHRIMPING PAST, REALLY NEAT INFORMATION AND GREAT HISTORY.

HE DOES A LOT OF RESEARCH.

BUT BY SEPTEMBER 5TH IN THE PZB MEETING, IT'S ANOTHER NARRATIVE.

I THINK IT WOULD'VE BEEN GREAT IF HE'D REACHED OUT TO EVERYBODY IN LINCOLNVILLE AND TALKED TO RESIDENTS AS A WHOLE TO ALL OF US AND DETERMINE WHAT TYPE OF SUPPORT THAT HE'S GOING TO GET FROM THE ACTUAL COMMUNITY OF LINCOLNVILLE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU. I DO HAVE ONE MORE SPEAKER CARD, PETER DEL VECCHIO.

ANYONE ELSE WHO WISHES TO SPEAK, PLEASE TURN IN YOUR CARD NOW, I WON'T BE ACCEPTING ANY MORE CARDS AFTER THE END OF MR. DEL VECCHIO'S SPEECH.

>> HI, YES. GOOD EVENING.

I AM PETER DEL VECCHIO, 3416 SOUTH SILVER TREE WAY.

AND FIRST OFF, I COMMEND YOU FOR GETTING THAT LAST NAME CORRECT.

SO THANK YOU GUYS. [LAUGHTER]

>> NEVER USUALLY THAT LUCKY.

>> IT WAS GOOD. IT'S GOOD. I'VE KNOWN RYAN AND HEATHER FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS NOW.

I HAD THE PLEASURE OF BEING THE TEACHER TO MOST OF THEIR CHILDREN.

AND JUST HEARING ABOUT THIS RECENTLY, I FIND OUT MORE ABOUT HIM EVERY DAY AND IT'S VERY COMMENDABLE TO KNOW WHAT HE IS EXCITED ABOUT AND PASSIONATE ABOUT AND EAGER TO BRING TO THE AREA.

I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEING NEIGHBORS AND PARKING AND ALL THAT.

AND LIKE OTHER PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE A LOT LONGER THAN I HAVE FOR ONLY 10 YEARS NOW.

I'VE SEEN IT A LITTLE BIT TROUBLESOME AT TIMES, BUT NOTHING THAT CAN'T BE OVERCOME WITH SOME THINKING, SOME STRATEGIES, AND SOME WELL THOUGHT-OUT PROCESSES THAT I KNOW EVERYBODY HERE CAN WORK THROUGH.

BUT JUST TO KNOW THAT THIS ITEM CAN BE RIGHT DOWNTOWN FROM A COUPLE OF LOCAL SCHOOLS, COUPLE OF PRIVATE SCHOOLS, COUPLE OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS, IN THE TOWN WHERE COLLEGE STUDENTS ARE HERE, IN THE HISTORICAL BUILDING.

ONE RIGHT NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HENRY FLAGLER, WHO PROBABLY STUDIED HERE AT SOME POINT, WHICH IS A PRETTY COOL THING TO THINK ABOUT.

TO BRING KIDS DOWNTOWN TO JUST EXPERIENCED SOME OF THE CULTURE THAT COULD BE LOST.

RAILROAD HISTORY, FLAGLER HISTORY, AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY, JUST FLORIDA HISTORY, HEARING ABOUT HIS PASSIONS AND WHAT HE CAN BRING, AND KNOWING WHAT HE'S ALREADY BROUGHT.

HE'S NOT GOING TO BRING SOMETHING THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.

[02:10:02]

I KNOW HE'S DEFINITELY THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AND REALLY HE HAS A GOOD HEART AND INTENTIONS AND JUST KNOWING HIS FAMILY, HE'S DOING THIS FOR THEM AS WELL, TO LEAVE SOMETHING BEHIND WHEN HE GOES ON TO KNOW THAT HE'S GOING TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT'S IMPORTANT IS SOMETHING THAT'S CARED ABOUT, SOMETHING THAT'S WELL THOUGHT OUT.

I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO ATTENDING.

THIS IS PRETTY COOL TO HEAR ABOUT.

AND I GET A LOT OF PEOPLE MENTIONED EMOTIONS AND FEARS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND THAT'S TRUE WITH EVERYTHING.

IT'S JUST YOU PUT YOUR HEART INTO IT, YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT THE COMMUNITY AND WHAT'S AROUND THERE.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, ARE YOU PUTTING UP ANOTHER GIPHY STORE? ARE YOU PUTTING UP ANOTHER SOUVENIR SHOP? ARE YOU PUTTING UP ANOTHER FIVE AND DIME.

NO OFFENSE IF ANYBODY HERE WHO OWNS THOSE.

BUT THIS IS A REALLY COOL ITEM THAT'S GOING TO BE HAVING A LASTING IMPRESSION IN THAT TOWN.

AND IT'S REALLY GOING TO BE TALKED ABOUT AND I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT.

AND I'M IN FULL SUPPORT OF RYAN AND HIS FAMILY.

AND I REALLY HOPE THIS WORKS OUT.

I HOPE EVERYBODY CONSIDERS IT.

AND JUST THE OTHER DAY HE STEPPED UP AT A SCHOOL, HE'S MY SON'S BASKETBALL COACH, WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYBODY.

HE'S LIKE, YEAH I'LL DO THAT, PETER.

LET ME KNOW WHAT PRACTICES, I LOVE THAT, I LOVE THE KIDS, I LOVE BEING AROUND.

HE'S ALL IN IN ST. AUGUSTINE.

AND AGAIN, I FIND OUT MORE ABOUT HIM EVERY DAY AND HE'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

HE WANTS TO MAKE THIS PLACE BETTER.

AND IF I LIVE NEXT DOOR, IT'D BE BETTER TO LIVE NEXT DOOR TO SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY COOL THAN A RUNDOWN, OLD, DILAPIDATED BUILDING THAT WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING ON THERE RIGHT NOW.

SO I WISH YOU CONSIDER THIS AND CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD. THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU. PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED.

WE WILL GO BACK TO THE APPELLANT HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REBUFF.

MADAM CLERK, DID WE GO OVER, I GUESS, OKAY.

COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU WANT TO TAKE A SHORT BREAK? IT'S 7:15, WE HAVE AT LEAST ANOTHER 20 MINUTES OF APPELLANT'S REBUFF, REBUTTAL, AND THEN OUR DELIBERATIONS.

SO DO YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD AND BREAK NOW? ONE SAYS YES, TWO, THREE, FOUR, OF COURSE.

SO WE'LL TAKE A 10 MINUTE BREAK.

WE WILL BE BACK HERE AT 07:22.

THANK YOU. WANT TO CALL THIS MEETING BACK TO ORDER.

I BELIEVE WHERE WE ARE IS WE HAVE THE APPELLANT'S OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS.

>> MADAM MAYOR.]

>> I'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHAT WITH MR. WHITEHOUSE DURING THE BREAK, AND HE DOES HAVE AN ABILITY TO ASK YOU QUESTIONS ON YOUR EX PARTE.

SO IT MIGHT FLOW SMOOTHER IF YOU DO YOUR EX PARTE DISCLOSURE NOW AND THEN HE CAN ADDRESS IT DURING HIS REBUTTAL.

>> ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S FINE.

SO I WILL BEGIN TO ADDRESS MY EX PARTE.

I HAVE TRIED TO DO THE BEST I COULD BECAUSE THIS HAS BEEN A LOT OF INPUT.

I DO HAVE LETTERS ON THE SERVER THAT ARE AVAILABLE, A NUMBER OF LETTERS.

I SPOKE PERSONALLY WITH NICK CARRARA, SCOTT GAUTER, PHIL MCDANIEL, JOE TRANGOLEY, JANE MCCUTCHEN, ANDREA' GUARDIOLA, JACKIE HEARD, RYAN DETRA, AND MELINDA RECONSAY. WHO WILL GO NEXT?

>> [NOISE] I SPOKE TO ALL THOSE PEOPLE TOO PERSONALLY EXCEPT FOR MS. RECONSAY, I DID NOT SPEAK TO HER.

I JUST HAVE A LIST HERE, MOST OF THESE ARE EMAILS.

ROD WALLACE, CARRIE CRAFT, JODY COWEN, ALAN RIDGE, LAWREN KHYBER, PAUL CRAFT, MELINDA RECONSAY, ELLA FULLERTON, MADDIE HAMS, KAREN LINDSEY, DIANE DETRA, HEATHER DETRA.

I SPOKE WITH RYAN DETRA.

VIRGINIA WHITSTONE, BRUCE MAGUIRE, PHILIP MCDANIEL, ANDREAS, WHO I SHOULD KNOW HIS LAST NAME BECAUSE HE ALWAYS REMEMBER EVERYBODY'S NAME BUT THE OWNER OF CRAVE, HE KNOWS EVERYBODY.

JOE TRANGOLEY, CHERYL CAVANAUGH, BARTON STONE, RACHEL THOMPSON, MARIE HAYES.

AND I THINK THAT'S IT.

OH, JACKIE HEARD, I SPOKE WITH HER IN-PERSON.

>> OKAY.

>> I WAS TRYING TO CROSS-REFERENCE, [OVERLAPPING] BUT YOU'RE GOING TOO FAST.

I GOT EMAILS FROM ROD WALLACE, CARRIE CRAFT, JUDY COLLIN, ALLEN RIDGE, PAUL CRAFT, VIRGINIA WHITSTONE,

[02:15:04]

BRUCE MAGUIRE COLLEEN SULLIVAN, KAREN LINDSEY, ELLA FULLERTON, DIANE DETRA, SALLY MITSGA, RACHEL THOMPSON, BARTON STONE, MARIE HAYES, DEB WICKER, LAWREN KHYBER, MADDIE HAMS, AND MELINDA RECONSAY.

AND I SPOKE PERSONALLY ON THE PHONE WITH PHILIP MCDANIEL AND JACKIE HEARD.

>> OKAY. I CAN SAY EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

I HAVE THE LETTERS AND THE EMAILS ON THE SERVER, AND I'VE SPOKEN WITH PHIL MCDANIEL AND JACKIE HEARD ON THE PHONE.

>> I WOULD SAY I TALKED TO THE SAME PEOPLE AND I DID SPEAK WITH JACKIE HEARD.

I TOOK A MEETING WITH HER AND I TOOK A MEETING WITH MR. RYAN DEBTRA EARLIER TODAY.

>> THANK YOU. NOW WE WILL PROCEED WITH MR. WHITEHOUSE.

>> THANK YOU, MADAM MAYOR, I'M GOING TO LET RYAN SPEAK FEW MINUTES AND THEN I'M GOING TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE PUBLIC COMMENT AND THEN I'LL CONCLUDE. THANK YOU.

>> WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THREE PLANNING AND ZONING MEETINGS ON JULY 5TH, AUGUST 1ST, SEPTEMBER 5TH.

EACH MEETING, WE ANALYZED ALL THE FEEDBACK, THAT THE RESIDENTS GOTTEN INCORPORATED, EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY COULD IN THE PLANS.

WE'VE BEEN VERY DILIGENT TO BE A GOOD STEWARD FOR THE PROPERTY AND DO WHAT'S RIGHT FOR THE COMMUNITY.

WHEN THEY ASKED FOR AN EIGHT-FOOT FENCE, WE PUT THAT IN OUR PLAN WITH A SOUND BUFFER AND PLANTS ALONG THE BACK AND ON THE SIDE, AN EIGHT-FOOT FENCE.

A FOUR-FOOT FENCE, AND WE PUT IT IN THE CROSSINGS, THE SIDEWALK BECAUSE OF THE SIGHT LINES WAS MENTIONED OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPELOSI HAS EMAILED THAT.

THAT EMAILS FROM BEFORE THE FIRST THING WE SUBMITTED, AND THEY'VE USED IT EVERY MEETING AS IF IT WAS NEW INFORMATION, BUT WE'VE ALREADY CORRECTED THOSE THINGS AND THE ONLY THING THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE SITE IS TO PROVIDE ALL THE PARKING AND WE PROVIDE A GOOD SOLUTIONS FOR THAT AS WELL.

A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR THE CITY.

DID THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD SUPPLY EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE RULING? I WOULD SAY THEY HAVE NOT.

INFORMATION PRESENTED TO THE PZB SHOWED THAT THE PLAN IS IN COMPLIANCE.

WE'VE HIRED EXPERTS, THE MATHEWS DESIGN GROUP AND KIMBERLY HORN FOR THE PARKING AND THE SITE PLAN.

IN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE STAFF REPORT THEY'VE SAID IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING I TOOK LIGHTLY, IF ANY OF YOU KNOW ME OR KNOW ANY OF THE WORK I'VE DONE, I'VE READ ALL YOUR PLANS, I'VE READ THE LINCOLN BILL PLAN, I'VE READ THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN I READ THE HISTORIC PLANS AND I TRY TO DO EVERYTHING I POSSIBLY COULD TO ADHERE TO THE PLANS.

IT SAYS THIS INCLUDES THE GOALS, OBJECTIVES, AND POLICIES TO SUPPORT THE PROPOSAL FOR THE RAILROAD, RETROSPECTIVE MIXED USE PUD.

I BELIEVE THE CITY PUTS TOGETHER THESE PLANS SO THAT PEOPLE LIKE ME CAN ADHERE TO THEM AND USE THEM.

THIS HAS BEEN A VERY HARD EMOTIONAL ROLLERCOASTER TO GO THROUGH THIS PROJECT.

WHEN MY WIFE AND I DECIDED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH IT, WE HAD IMMENSE SUPPORT AND WE THOUGHT THAT THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY OPPOSITION BECAUSE WE WERE BRINGING IN A PIECE OF HISTORY THAT WAS BASICALLY LOST, THE ST. AUGUSTINE AND IT'S AN INCREDIBLE MUSEUM PIECE THAT THE CITY DOESN'T HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF AND THAT WE'VE DEVELOPED A BUSINESS MODEL TO BE THE CARETAKER OF THAT LOCOMOTIVE AND THE LOCOMOTIVE HISTORY.

WHEN WE WENT AROUND TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, WE FOUND THAT CLOSER TO THE BUILDING IT WAS WHEN WE'RE KNOCKING ON DOORS, THEY HAD THE CODE ON THE DOORS AND THEY WERE PRIMARILY AIRBNB SO WE STARTED TO GO THE PROPERTY APPRAISER SITE AS WE WALKED AROUND.

WE FOUND THAT THE RESIDENTS, AND WHEN WE ACTUALLY FOUND RESIDENTS, AND THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THEM, THEY WERE VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF WHAT WE WERE DOING.

QUALITY WAS THE MAIN THING WE HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THEY LOVED THE ICE PLANT, THEY LOVED THE DISTILLERY, THEY LOVE PRESERVED AND THEY WANT TO SEE MORE ESTABLISHMENTS THAT HAVE HIGH CALIBER QUALITY THINGS IN OUR TOWN.

IT WAS VERY DISCOURAGING BECAUSE WE CAME IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD WITH OVER 100 LETTERS OF SUPPORT AND WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE THEM READ.

I BELIEVE WE DID FACE DISCRIMINATION THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S PROBABLY NOT NORMALLY TALKED ABOUT IN COMMISSION MEETINGS OR THE PLANNING AND ZONING MEETINGS, BUT YOU HEARD FROM SOME OF THE MEMBERS OF THE LINKVILLE HISTORIC PRESERVATION SOCIETY THAT WHEN WE WERE TO PRESENT IT,

[02:20:02]

THERE ARE LETTERS WE'RE TOLD WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO READ THEM AND YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE MEETING AND SEE THAT BECAUSE MAYBE TIME WAS RUNNING WRONG, MAYBE THEY WERE DISCRIMINATING, EITHER WAY THEY DID NOT GET TO BE HEARD AND THAT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE THESE ARE THE LONGTIME RESIDENTS.

AT THE PRIOR MEETING, WE WERE TOLD THAT HALF OF OUR LETTERS OF SUPPORT, WHICH WERE THE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN ST. AUGUSTINE, THOUGH THEY LIVE AROUND THERE AND THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN ST. AUGUSTINE LIVE IN DOWNTOWN, THAT IT WAS A MIX LIKE 50,50 OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN LINCOLN BILL AND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE OUTSIDE SO THOSE DIDN'T REALLY COUNT.

WHAT I FOUND WAS WHAT DID COUNT IS THE VERY SMALL NUMBER OF SENIOR CITIZEN, WHITE PEOPLE WHO COME TO THE MEETINGS AND ARE THE LOUDEST VOICES AND THEY'RE ALL IN ONE GROUP THAT COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER, THAT CAN BE TIED BACK TO EACH OTHER.

I HAVE ALSO FACED ABUSE ONLINE, WHICH REALLY UPSETS MY WIFE AND PUTS HER IN TEARS THAT SHE WAS ATTACKED ONLINE BY LAWREN KHYBER AND A NUMBER OF OTHER PEOPLE ON NEXT DOOR.

WE DON'T FREQUENT THAT APP AND WE HAD TO STOP GOING ON IT AND USING IT BECAUSE IT JUST GETS UGLY.

THE BULLYING THAT HAPPENS AMONGST THESE PEOPLE AND THE FACTS VERSUS THE MISINFORMATION.

I BELIEVE I'VE TALKED TO THREE COMMISSIONERS ONE ON FRIDAY AND TWO TODAY AND I BELIEVE THE MISINFORMATION, I HEAR THE SAME EXACT THINGS.

MISINFORMATION IS COMING FROM ONE SINGLE SOURCE AND TO SAY OVER AND OVER AGAIN, EVEN WHEN PEOPLE PRESENT TO SAY OVER AND OVER AGAIN, NO PARKING OR THERE'S THE IDEA THAT NO PARKING.

NOW, THIS PROPERTY TAKES A CREATIVE PARKING SOLUTION.

THAT WAS AWARE FROM THE VERY FIRST TIME I WENT DOWN TO THE CITY AND TALKED AND ASK FOR THE FRIDAY REVIEW.

THE PROPERTY IS UNIQUE, THERE'S HISTORIC BUILDINGS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO SAVE.

IT HAS HISTORY WITH THE ST. AUGUSTINE TRANSFER COMPANY AND WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO CREATE AN APPLICANT BECAUSE THERE WAS FIVE RECENT APPLICANTS THAT THEY REVIEWED AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE A CREATIVE APPLICANT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PROJECT.

THEY LIKED THE PROJECT I PROPOSED AND THEY FELT LIKE IT WAS SOMETHING WE SHOULD PROCEED WITH AND WE HAVE SINCE SPENT OVER $60,000 ON LAWYERS AND EXPERTS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS BASED ON THE FEEDBACK WE GOT FROM THAT FIRST MEETING.

IT HAS BEEN A VERY DIFFICULT PATH.

I'M GOING TO GO THROUGH SOME OF THE FACTS AND I BELIEVE MOST OF THEM STEM FROM PHILIP MCDANIEL.

I KNOW HE TRY TO PULL YOU OVER WITH HIS VISIT FLORIDA NOMINATION, AND HE IS MAN ABOUT TOWN THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BE CLOSE TO BUT HE SENT OUT A LETTER THAT HAD A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MISINFORMATION AND YOU'VE SEEN THREE VERSIONS OF THIS LETTER.

IF YOU NOTICE IN THE FIRST VERSION, HE CHANGED SOME STATEMENTS TO OPINION BECAUSE I BELIEVE HE GOT SOME LEGAL COUNSEL THAT YOU HAVE TO PUT OPINION BEFORE THOSE BECAUSE IF YOU STATE THEM AS FACT AND THEY'RE NOT FACT, HE'S LIABLE FOR SUIT.

ONE OF THE THINGS PHILIP HAD SAID, AND IF YOU REMEMBER, THIS EMAIL IS JUST TO DEMONSTRATE JUST HOW BUSY FOLIAR PARKING LOT IS ON A TYPICAL WEEKDAY.

WE PREPARED A ONE-MINUTE VIDEO FOR YOU TO SAY.

WELL, GUESS WHAT, THAT'S NOT HIS PARKING LOT.

THE TRUTH IS, LIKE MY WIFE SAID EARLIER, PHILIP HAS 16 SPACES THAT HE LEASES INDIVIDUALLY.

THE ICE PLANT HAS 26 SPACES THAT WE LEASE INDIVIDUALLY, AND WE HAVE OUR OWN LEASE FOR.

THE TROLLEY TRAINS GO THROUGH BOTH LOTS AND PATRONS USE BOTH LOTS, BUT PHILIP DOES NOT HAVE ANY RIGHT TO ANY OF THE SPACES ON THE ICE PLANT SIDE AND I AM A PART OWNER IN THE ICE PLANT AND I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE LEASES AND I CAN PROVIDE THOSE TO THE CITY COMMISSION.

THERE IS A GRAVEL PARKING LOT IN THE BACK THAT IS SHARED.

SO THE GRAVEL PARKING LOT HAS ABOUT 15 SPACES EACH FOR EACH BUSINESS.

WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IN WHICH HE DIDN'T SAY IN HIS LETTER.

WE HAVE FOUND THAT SINCE HE SELLS GREEN TROLLEY TICKETS, THAT PEOPLE PARK IN THE LOT AND SPEND THE WHOLE DAY PARKING LOT WHILE THEY RIDE THE GREEN TROLLEY TRAINS.

WE HAVE COME THERE IN THE MORNING ON A BUSY SAY WHEN NIGHTS LIGHTS HAPPENED, YOU WILL SEE 30 PEOPLE PARK THERE ALREADY BEFORE LIFESPAN OPENS BECAUSE WE OPENED AN HOUR-AND-A-HALF LATER AFTER THE DISTILLERY.

TO SAY THAT HE'S GOING TO LOSE BUSINESS IS COMPLETELY INACCURATE.

FIRST OF ALL, THAT'S NOT HIS PARKING LOT.

HE HAS NO RIGHT TO THOSE SPACES.

HE CANNOT PUT A GUARD IN THOSE SPACES AND HE ACTUALLY CAN'T LEASE OUT THOSE SPACES TO THE GREEN TROLLEYS OR HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH THE GREEN TROLLEYS.

THE FACT THAT HE DID THAT FINE BECAUSE WE ALL

[02:25:02]

KNOW THAT THE PARKING SITUATION IN DOWNTOWN IS UNIQUE.

THAT JUST LIKE YOU'VE HEARD A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WORK AT TALK ABOUT IT.

IT'S THAT PEOPLE PARK SOMEWHERE AND THEN THEY GO TO MULTIPLE PLACES.

IF YOU FIND A SPOT AT THE ICE PLANT OR YOU FIND A SPOT AT THE DISTILLERY AND WHETHER OR NOT YOU KNOW WHICH LOT YOU ARE IN YOU THINK IT'S THE SAME PLACE.

YOU BUY A DRINK THERE OR YOU BUY A BOTTLE THERE AND YOU WANT TO GO TO THE WINERY, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE YOUR CAR OUT OF A LOT AND GO TO THE WINERY.

FOR ONE, THE WINERY ONLY HAS 19 PAVED SPACES AND THEY HAVE A 24,000 SQUARE FOOT BUILDING.

THE OTHER REASON IS THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE USED TO.

THEY FIND THE SPOT AND THEY WALKED FROM PLACE TO PLACE.

ST. AUGUSTINE IS NOT LIKE US ONE AND YOU DO NOT DRIVE FROM CHIPOTLE TO TARGET TO ALL THE PLACES THAT YOU WANT TO GO.

YOU GO DOWNTOWN AND THEN YOU STAY THERE.

IT'S SOMETHING WE'VE EXPERIENCED FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

IT IS TRUE THAT THE TROLLEY BRINGS A LOT OF PEOPLE THROUGH, AND I WOULD SAY AS MUCH AS 85 OR 90 PERCENT OF THE TRAFFIC THE DISTILLERY GETS IS FROM THE TROLLEYS.

A MAJOR PART OF THE OTHER ONES ARE THE PARKING STAY, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT HAS A BUSINESS THERE THAT, IS JUST THE CULTURE OF GOING DOWNTOWN.

IF YOU FIND A SPOT, YOU STAY IF THERE'S NO TOWING SIGNS AND YOU WENT TO THE BUSINESS AND HAVE A RECEIPT, YOU GOING TO FEEL LIKE THAT'S YOUR SPOT FOR THE DAY.

THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF INFORMATION WHICH IS DANGEROUS, I FEEL FOR FOR THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD AND THE COMMISSION THAT'S IN HIS LETTER THAT'S MISINFORMATION.

HE DID START AND MISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN.

I'VE TRACE BACK THE PEOPLE AND SOME OF THE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE I'VE HAD A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE COME UP TO ME OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

I TELL THEM ABOUT THE PROJECT AND THEN THEY WILL COME BACK TO ME AND SAY THAT PHILIP HAS APPROACHED ME AND ASKED ME NOT TO SUPPORT IT.

THEN THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE AND JUST SAY, I JUST WANT TO BE NEUTRAL.

I'M NOT INVOLVED IN THIS TYPE OF THING.

IT'S AN ANTI COMPETITION THING FOR PHILIP BECAUSE IT ISN'T ABOUT PARKING.

IF IT WAS ABOUT PARKING, THEN THAT WOULD BE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING FOR HIS BUSINESS.

HE WOULDN'T LET THE GREEN TROLLEYS HAVE SPACES.

YOU'RE LOOKING FOR ADDITIONAL PARKING.

THE JULY 5TH MEETING, TOM DAY, MINORITY OWNER OF THE ST. AUGUSTINE DISTILLERY.

I QUOTE, "YOU HEARD THE PEOPLE FROM LUCKY INTO IN FACT, I ASKED A COUPLE OF PEOPLE FROM LAW TO COME OVER." IT WAS MY FIRST LIKE, THIS IS COMPETITION THAT THEY'RE AFRAID OF AND THE ROUNDING UP PEOPLE, BECAUSE TOM DAY DOESN'T LIVE IN LINCOLN BILL AND HIS INTERESTS IS IN THE DISTILLERY.

I'VE GONE ON QUITE A PATH TO ACHIEVE SOME A PARKING AGREEMENT.

ON JULY 5TH, I RECEIVED A LETTER OF INTENT PARKING LEASE AGREEMENT FROM ST. AUGUSTINE MARINE HOLDINGS.

AT THE JULY 5TH MEETING, THEY REQUESTED A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS.

JULY 23RD, I RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM ST. AUGUSTINE MARINE HOLDINGS AS STATED, I TRIED TO HELP BUT ST. AUGUSTINE'S TOO POLITICAL.

YOU KEEP YOUR IN THE NAME PHILIP THROUGH THIS.

I DO HAVE OPPOSITION FROM PHILIP AND I'M HEARD IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN AS I'M TRYING TO GET PARKING AGREEMENTS OR PARKING THINGS IN PLACE, I HAVE COMPETITION FOR PARKING TO GET THIS.

I THINK I'VE EXPLAINED SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS THAT I DID GET TO TALK TO IS THAT I'M IN A POSITION NOW WHERE WE HAVE THE PROPERTY UNDER CONTRACT AND THAT IN ORDER TO ENTER INTO A LEASE, I HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE SOMETHING APPROVED TO BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT PART OF IT.

BUT JUST LIKE THE MISSING INFORMATION YOU HEARD AND WE'LL GO BACK TO PHILIP MCDANIELS LETTER IS THAT HE HAS A SECTION THAT SAYS DISTILLERY HISTORY WHILE THE DISTILLERY HISTORY BUT IN THE LETTER BECAUSE ALL LIES.

A FEW OF YOU WERE HERE WHEN DID THE CYLINDER WAS GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS? 12 YEARS AGO.

THE ICE PLANT BUILDING WAS ZONED ARPEGGIO.

WE WENT IN FRONT OF THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD FOR TWO THINGS.

WE WENT FOR AN EXCEPTION FOR LIGHT MANUFACTURING AND WE WENT FOR AND OFF-SITE PARKING.

THE THE ICELAND BUILDING ITSELF HAS A ZERO LOT LINE, SO THERE'S NO LAND AROUND IT.

AT THE TIME, JOHN REAGAN WAS NEGOTIATING THE CONTRACT WITH F, P AND L. JOHN REAGAN WAS A FORMER ROOMMATE OF ONE OF THE INVESTORS IN THE DISTILLERY, MIGHT DIAZ, AND HE WAS CLOSE TO FILL UP MCDANIEL.

HE WENT ON A TRIP WITH TO JUNEAU AND TRIED TO NEGOTIATE WAY FOR THE DISTILLERY TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A LEASE.

THE DISTILLERY DIDN'T HAVE A LEASE AND IT DIDN'T HAVE A LETTER OF INTENT WHEN IN FRONT OF PLANNING ZONING BOARD.

IT JUST HAD THE HOPE OF SOMETHING AND WE'RE ALSO

[02:30:01]

PURSUING OFF-SITE PARKING ACROSS THE STREET.

WE ACTUALLY LOOKED AT THE PROPERTY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, ONE-FIFTH AND LIQUID INTO, WE LOOKED AT A LOT OF OPTIONS, AND THE ZONING BOARD ENDED UP APPROVING IT SEVEN TO ZERO WITH NO LETTER OF INTENT, WITH NO PARKING LEASE.

IT ACTUALLY HAD THE SAME LANGUAGE THAT WE'RE ASKING FOR NOW, THAT WE'D HAVE A TIME PERIOD WHERE WE HAD TO GET PARKING AND WE COULDN'T GET OUR PERMITS OR A CEO UNTIL THAT POINT.

NOT ONLY IS DISTILLERY HISTORY AND PHILIPS EMAIL COMPLETELY INCORRECT, IT IS MISLEADING.

ALSO ALONG WITH PARKING, WE HAD MET WITH THE PROPERTY OF THE REAL ESTATE AGENT ON JULY 20 OF THE PROPERTY NEXT DOOR, ABOUT THE SPACE, THE LEASE AND THEY'RE LEASING SPACES.

HE MESSAGED ME A FEW DAYS LATER THAT HE WAS WORKING ON A TERM SHEET, AND THEN I GOT A MESSAGE JULY 27TH, THAT HE HAD TALKED TO THE ST. AUGUSTINE DISTILLERY AND THE OWNERS AND THAT THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO SPEND A LEASE.

WE MET WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD ON LA QUINTA ON JULY 31ST.

WE DID A MEETING WITH THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE BECAUSE THAT WAS OUT OF THE EIGHT HOMES THERE.

THERE'S FOUR PEOPLE THAT LIVE THERE AND WE NOTICED EVERYBODY THAT AIRBNB IS AND THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE HOUSES.

WE HAD A PRETTY NICE MEETING AND ADDRESS THEIR CONCERNS.

AT THE TIME THEY SEEM VERY RECEPTIVE OF ALL THE THINGS WE WERE DOING.

IT WASN'T THE SAME AS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SEEING THEM COME UP AND TALK ABOUT OR LETTERS THAT HAVE WRITING, AND I FEEL LIKE WE ADDRESS THEIR CONCERNS AT THAT MEETING.

WE ALSO PRESENTED A TRAFFIC ANALYSIS AND TRIP GENERATION ON AUGUST 1ST.

ON AUGUST 3RD, WE MET WITH JACOB AND HE RECOMMENDED THAT WE LEASE PARKING WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AND WORD IT IN THE PUD SO AT LEASE AGREEMENT WOULD BE NEEDED TO SOLIDIFY FOR BUILDING PERMITS.

JAMES WENT BACK AND HE WORDED THAT INTO OUR PUD.

WE'VE ALSO DISCUSSED WITH THE LINCOLNVILLE HISTORIC PRESERVATION SOCIETY LEASING FROM COMMUNITY CHURCHES.

WE'VE ALSO TALKED TO 150 LIBERIA.

WE BELIEVE WE HAVE A LOT OF OPTIONS THERE, BUT WE ALSO BELIEVE WE'RE RUNNING INTO TORTIOUS INTERFERENCE FROM POSSIBLY FILL UP.

WE DO NEED TO GO OVER THIS REAL QUICK.

THE SURROUNDING BUSINESSES ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE FOR PARKING CODE.

IT WOULD BE UNFAIR THAT SOME OF THE LETTERS THAT WERE READ IN SOME OF THE BUSINESSES, EVEN THOUGH MULTIPLE PEOPLE, THIS BELIEF FOR PEOPLE SPOKE FOR THE CABINETS, 125, KING STREET, AND THEN YOU GOT TO OTHER BUSINESSES IN THERE THAT ALSO PROVIDED LETTERS.

THEY'RE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THEIR PARKING CODE.

THEY HAVE FIVE BUSINESSES, SCOOTER RENTAL, 30 SEAT RESTAURANT, AND ONLY 20 SPACES.

SAN SEBASTIAN WINERY HAS 24,000 SQUARE FEET AND 160 SEATS AND 19 PAVE SPACES.

THEY'RE DIRT PARKING LOT IS SOMETHING THAT'S PART OF FUTURE PROJECTS.

IT'S NOT ACTUALLY PARKING AT THE MOMENT.

CARMELO SAYS 7,400 SQUARE FEET, 77 SEAT RESTAURANT, GAS STATION, CONVENIENCE STORE, AND THEY ONLY HAVE 13 PARKING SPACES. THAT'S TOURING GALLERIES.

THAT SHOULD HAVE TRIPLE THAT AMOUNT.

THE BUTTERFIELD IS 12,000 SQUARE FEET, FIVE BUSINESSES AND 13 SPACES HANDLING HARDWARE, 9,600 SQUARE FEET, THREE RESTAURANTS, ONE OF THEM IS CURRENTLY OCCUPIED, AND FIVE USES TOTAL IN 20 SPACES.

IF THERE'S A PROBLEM WITH SPACES IS BECAUSE CODE IS NOT ENFORCING THE REQUIREMENTS FOR PARKING THERE OUT OF COMPLIANCE, THE ICE PLANT IS THE ONLY BUSINESS IN THE WHOLE AREA THAT HAS AN EXCESS OF REQUIRED PARKING SPACES.

WE HAVE THE 26 THAT WE NEED, WE HAVE 15 EXTRA SPACES.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ALSO IMPORTANT.

THE SURROUNDING BUSINESS IS, CAN THE BURDEN OF PROOF FOR THE CITY BE PROVEN? IT DO THE SURROUNDING BUSINESSES HAVE ADEQUATE PARKING? KNOW CAN THEY PROVE THAT CUSTOMERS WILL ARC AND OTHER BUSINESSES LOTS AND NOT ENTER BUSINESSES OF THE LOT THAT THEY PARKED.

NO. CUSTOMERS WILL DRIVE FROM THE BUSINESS TO BUSINESS AND NOT PARK AND WALK FROM BUSINESS TO BUSINESS.

THE MAJORITY OF CUSTOMERS WILL TRAVEL BY CAR AND NOT WALK. ALSO NOT TRUE.

CUSTOMERS WILL NOT UTILIZE OFF-SITE PARKING. ALSO NOT TRUE.

VALET PARKING WITH AN OFF-SITE PARKING LOT IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION? NOT TRUE. BUSINESSES WILL NEED TO HIRE GUARDS FOR THE PARKING LOT.

THAT'S THE MOST RIDICULOUS THING I'VE EVER HEARD.

>> I WANT TO SWITCH BACK TO THE POWERPOINT JUST FOR REAL QUICK TO TALK ABOUT A FEW THINGS THAT THEY TALKED ABOUT.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE COMMERCIAL ZONING AND THE LAND USE FOR THIS AREA.

YOU CAN SEE FROM THE MAP, YOU SEE THE LAND USE IS COMMERCIAL, THE ZONING IS COMMERCIAL.

[02:35:01]

LOOK AT LOCKEAN TO ALL OF THE KEITA IS CR1.

YOU GET THEM TO COME UP AND TALK ABOUT IT AND SAY, IT'S ALL RESIDENTS.

IT'S ALL SEE L1.

YOU CAN SEE THIS IS NOT MY MAP. I DIDN'T MAKE THIS UP.

THIS IS YOUR MAP, N 1/ NUMBER TWO, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEING, YOU KNOW, IN LINCOLN BILL, THIS IS NOT IN LINCOLN BILL.

IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR MAP, YOU CAN SEE ON THIS RIGHT HERE, GREEN CIRCLE AT THE TOP IS WHERE THIS IS, THIS IS OUTSIDE LINCOLN.

LINCOLN FILLS THE WHOLE PURPLE AREA OUTLINED ON THIS PARTICULAR MAP.

YOU SEE THE RED DOWN AT THE BOTTOM.

THAT WAS A RESTAURANT THAT WAS APPROVED IN 2019 BY EXCEPTION BY THE SAME PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD THAT SAID THAT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING.

THIS IS NOT AN APPROPRIATE AREA FOR THESE TYPES OF USES.

THAT'S INAPPROPRIATE WHEN THAT'S GRANTED TO THIS RESTAURANT DOWN DEEP INTO THE OTHER SIDE OF LINCOLN BILL.

THIS WHICH IS WHERE ONE BLOCK OFF KING STREET CL1 CL2 CORRIDOR.

THE SECOND THING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT, I DID TALK TO YOU ABOUT ONE-TWENTY 14TH STREET, WHICH IS JUST RIGHT UP AT THE CORNER THAT WAS APPROVED ON THE SAME SEPTEMBER AGENDA, WHICH THEY GAVE THEM LEEWAY FROM NOT HAVING PARKING ON THIS PARTICULAR AREA.

YOU HEARD ONE OF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS ON CORTEZ'S THAT WAS ALSO ON ONE OF THE AGENDAS WHERE THEY GAVE THEM LEEWAY FROM THE PARKING ON ON THAT AREA AND THAT'S A COMMERCIAL.

I CAN JUST FINISH, MA'AM, PLEASE.

I'M TRYING TO STAY FAIR, PLAY WITHIN THE BOUNDARIES, AND I DO BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE GIVEN A LITTLE EXTRA TIME IN THE BEGINNING. I'M SORRY.

>> IF I CAN COMPLETE THEM FOR DUE PROCESS.

>> MAYBE YOU COULD.

>> [OVERLAPPING], IF YOU COULD LET HIM JUST WRAP UP QUICKLY AS FAST AS YOU CAN.

>> YES, MA'AM. THE ONLY THING THAT I WANT TO CONCLUDE WITH HIS NUMBER ONE.

YOU SAW YOUR EXPERT STAFF REPORT.

YOUR EXPERT STAFF REPORT TELLS YOU THAT THIS MEETS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

THEY PROVIDE EIGHT PAGES.

THAT'S UNPRECEDENTED IN ANY STAFF REPORT YOU'VE EVER GOTTEN EIGHT PAGES THAT SAYS THIS SUPPORTS AND FURTHERS YOUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

LASTLY, WE TALKED ABOUT PARKING.

EVERYBODY SAYS THIS IS ABOUT PARKING.

WELL, GUESS WHAT? YOU SEE WITHIN THE ZONING, PARKING IS PROVIDED.

WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR RELIEF FROM THE PARKING.

WE'RE TELLING YOU THAT WE ARE GOING TO PROVIDE THE PARKING.

IN FACT, WE CANNOT GET A CEO FOR ANY ONE OF THOSE USES UNLESS WE PROVE TO YOU WE HAVE THE PARKING.

BY THE WAY, THAT'S THE SAME EXACT THING THAT WAS GRANTED TO THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE SAME EXACT AGENDAS THAT THIS PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD SET.

IN FACT, THAT'S WHY YOU HAD TO DISSENTERS ON THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD BECAUSE THEY SAID THE SAME EXACT THING.

THEY THOUGHT THAT THESE APPLICANTS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PROVIDE THE PROOF OF THAT PARKING. THANK YOU, MA'AM.

>> THAT WAS GOING TO BE ONE OF MY QUESTIONS, BUT OKAY.

COMMISSIONERS, WE ARE IN DELIBERATION NOW.

I'M SORRY. LET ME GO BACK.

DO WE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPELLANT OR FOR STAFF? I SEE MS. SKINNER IS HERE ON THE FRONT ROW AND ARE AVAILABLE.

QUESTIONS? COMMENTS? [OVERLAPPING]

>> I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS FOR THE STAFF.

>> FOR STAFF? ALL RIGHT.

>> HELLO, MS. SKINNER.

>> GOOD EVENING.

>> I JUST HAVE A COUPLE OF CLARIFICATIONS.

I NEED TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY.

>> THE TROLLEYS, WHAT TIME DO THEY STOP RUNNING?

>> I BELIEVE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO PICK UP AT 4:30 ON THEIR LAST RUN AND I BELIEVE THEY'RE USUALLY FINISHED BY FIVE O'CLOCK.

>> THIS PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT ON LA QUINTA WOULD HAVE OPERATIONS AT LEAST IN A COUPLE OF THEIR PROPOSAL INCLUDES OPERATIONS, IT WOULD STAY OPEN UNTIL MIDNIGHT, AM I CORRECT?

>> YES, I BELIEVE SO. THERE WERE SOME LIMITATIONS FOR 10:00 PM AND THEN I THINK MIDNIGHT.

>> THEN FINALLY, DO YOU HAVE AN UPDATE FOR US OR ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE TIMELINE FOR DEVELOPMENT OF THE SAN SEBASTIAN INLAND HARBOR PARCEL?

>> I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH ANY TIMELINE.

I DO KNOW THAT THE FIRST HOTEL IS GOING THROUGH THE PERMITTING PROCESS RIGHT NOW.

BUT FOR ANY ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT, I'M NOT AWARE OF A SPECIFIC TIMELINE.

>> THAT'S ALL I HAVE. THANK YOU.

>> COMMISSIONER SPRINGFIELD. I DO HAVE A QUESTION.

MS. SKINNER, IS IT TRUE THAT THE PLANNING

[02:40:06]

AND ZONING AND THE COMMISSION APPROVED THE ICE PLANT WITH NO LETTER OF INTENT ON PARKING?

>> I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH HOW THAT PUD WAS APPROVED.

I WAS NOT EMPLOYED BY THE CITY AT THAT TIME.

I DO KNOW THAT THEY HAVE PARKING NOW AND THAT I DO BELIEVE IT'S CORRECT THAT THE FOOTPRINT OF THE BUILDING IS BASICALLY THE PROPERTY AND THEN THE PARKING IS CONSIDERED OFFSITE.

BUT IT IS ZONED PUD AND IT WENT THROUGH A PUD PROCESS.

>> IT SEEMS IN MY MEMORY, BECAUSE I THINK I WAS ON THE COMMISSION AT THE TIME THAT WE DID APPROVE IN GOOD FAITH FORTHCOMING PARKING AGREEMENTS ON THAT PROPERTY.

JUST TO BE VERY, VERY CLEAR, THE PLANNING AND ZONING, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO, BUT THEY CAN APPROVE OFF-SITE PARKING, ONE, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> TWO, THEY CAN APPROVE OFF-SITE PARKING WITH OR WITHOUT AGREEMENTS IN PLACE.

>> IN GENERAL, WE DO LIKE TO SEE AGREEMENTS IN PLACE.

THE SPECIFIC APPLICATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN REFERRED TO DID HAVE AGREEMENTS IN PLACE.

THE 124 KING STREET, IT DID HAVE AGREEMENTS AND THEY DO HAVE AGREEMENTS TO PARK ON THE METHODIST CHURCH PROPERTY, THE CORTESI RESTAURANT ON NORTH SAN MARCO, OR UP ON NORTH END OF SAN MARCO, THEY ALSO PRODUCED AGREEMENTS WHERE THEY HAD TALKED TO THE PROPERTY OWNERS AND HAD SPECIFIC AGREEMENTS WITH SEVERAL PROPERTIES WITHIN A CERTAIN RADIUS OF THEIR APPLICATION.

>> DID THE APPLICANT RESPOND TO THE REQUESTS FOR BUFFERING ALONG THE EASTERN PART OF THE PROPERTY OR BUFFERING FOR SOUND AS WELL AS VEGETATIVE?

>> THEY DID MAKE AMENDMENTS OF THEIR PLAN AS THEY REFERRED TO, AS THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD RESPONDED TO ISSUE.

AS PART OF THE PUD PROCESS, THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SUBMIT SITE PLANS AND BUFFERING PLANS AND LANDSCAPE PLANS.

WE HAVE NOT REVIEWED THE PLANS IN DETAIL TO DETERMINE WHETHER THEY ACTUALLY MEET THE LANDSCAPE CODE BECAUSE IT WAS BASICALLY A CONCEPTUAL PLAN.

BUT THEY DID RESPOND TO REQUESTS BY THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD TO ADD BUFFERS.

>> WHAT IS THE PROOF THAT HAS BEEN OFFERED IN EXPERT TESTIMONY, WHETHER BY THE CITY FOR THE IMPACTS DUE TO LACK OF PARKING AS A RESULT OF THIS? HAS THE CITY HAD AN EXPERT TESTIMONY ON THAT?

>> THE APPLICANT DID SUBMIT A TRANSPORTATION ANALYSIS, A TRIP GENERATION ANALYSIS.

>> I SEE THAT'S THE KIMBERLY HORN.

>> KIMBERLY HORN REPORT THAT ADDRESSED THE POTENTIAL TRIPS THAT WOULD BE GENERATED BY THE REQUESTED APPLICATION AT THAT TIME.

OF COURSE, IT WAS CONCEPTUAL AT THAT TIME.

IT TALKED ABOUT THE TRIP GENERATION AND IT TALKED ABOUT A THEORY OF PEOPLE WALKING AND POTENTIALLY TO THE LOCATION.

IT REDUCED THE TRIP REQUIREMENTS BASED ON THEORIES, BUT IT DID NOT ADDRESS THE PARKING ISSUE.

TRIP GENERATION IS A DIFFERENT ISSUE THAN PARKING.

YOU SEE WE DID SUBMIT THAT REPORT TO JONATHAN PAUL, WHO IS THE CITY'S MOBILITY CONSULTANT, HE DID REVIEW IT.

HE WAS NOT ABLE TO RESPOND BEFORE THE SEPTEMBER 5TH PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD MEETING, BUT HE DID RESPOND TO US BY SEPTEMBER 8TH.

THAT'S WHAT HE ARTICULATED, THAT BASICALLY IT WAS AN ANALYSIS TO DEMONSTRATE HOW MANY TRIPS ARE GENERATED BY THE PROPOSED TYPES OF USES AT THAT LOCATION.

>> I'M SORRY. FORGIVE ME, MS. SKINNER.

BUT IS THE INFORMATION YOU'RE GIVING INFORMATION THAT WAS BEFORE THE PCB OR IT'S

[02:45:04]

INFORMATION THAT'S OCCURRED AFTER BECAUSE AT THIS POINT WE'RE STILL SIMPLY LOOKING AT THE RECORD THAT WAS BEFORE PCB.

>> THE REPORT WAS ANALYZED BY THE CITY'S MOBILITY CONSULTANT AND THE REPORT HAS BEEN ANALYZED BY THE CITY'S MOBILITY MANAGER.

>> WHAT I'M NOT CLEAR ON WAS THAT EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD PRIOR TO THEIR DECISION?

>> THE REPORT BY KIMBERLY HORN WAS SUBMITTED TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD.

>> BUT WHAT ABOUT JONATHAN PAUL WHO WAS WORKING FOR THE CITY?

>> THAT WAS NOT PRESENTED TO THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD. I APOLOGIZE.

>> NO, THAT'S FINE. IT'S A LOT.

>> BUT I WILL SAY THE PARKING IS A SEPARATE ISSUE THAN THE TRIPS GENERATED BY POTENTIAL BUSINESS.

>> I UNDERSTAND, ONCE YOU DEAL WITH THE CONGESTION AND HOW MANY CARS ON THE ROAD AND THAT SORT OF THING, BUT IT DIDN'T REALLY ADDRESS THE PARKING COMPRESSION.

EARLY THERE WAS A DISCUSSION ABOUT PARKING ON-SITE.

I THINK THE EARLY APPLICATION WAS PARKING ON-SITE AND THEN THAT CONCEPT REQUEST CHANGED IN THE TEXT TO HAVE PROVIDE OFF-SITE PARKING?

>> THAT PROVISION, JUST TO BE CLEAR, THERE WAS NO LETTER OF INTENT PRESENTED, BUT THERE WAS A PROVISION THAT STATED THERE WOULD BE PARKING PROVIDED PRIOR TO A CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY?

>> KNOWING THAT THERE WERE OTHER STEPS, THEY WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH HUB.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF OTHER STEPS THAT OBVIOUSLY IF THIS PUD IS APPROVED.

>> WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH.

>> IN THE PLANNING AND ZONING BOARD IN THEIR EVALUATION DETERMINED THAT THEY WANTED TO SEE THE SPECIFICS OF A PARKING PLAN.

>> YES. THANK YOU.

THAT'S HELPFUL, VERY HELPFUL.

I WANTED TO SEE THE SPECIFICS, THAT WAS I BELIEVE THE CRUX OF THE MATTER. WAS THAT CORRECT?

>> CAN I ASK YOU JUST ONE QUESTION THAT'S RELATED TO WHAT SHE WAS SAYING, IF YOU DON'T MIND, COMMISSIONERS? THERE'S SEVERAL THINGS MENTIONED ABOUT THAT, IF WE SAY YES, GET YOURSELF SOME PARKING AND IT HAS TO HAVE THAT BEFORE THE CO IS ISSUED.

THAT MEANS THE TRAIN HAS BEEN MOVED, THE BUILDING HAS BEEN RENOVATED, EVERYTHING IS COMPLETE AND THEN WE COULD TELL HIM, NO.

IF HE DIDN'T HAVE A PARKING, WE CAN SAY, SORRY, YOU CAN'T OPEN.

>> THAT'S A HUGE GAMBLE.

I THINK I BRING A LITTLE INSIGHT TO THIS PARKING ISSUE, MS. SKINNER, BECAUSE I SPENT SEVEN YEARS ON PLANNING AND ZONING.

I'VE ALWAYS BEEN BOTHERED BY THE OFF-SITE PARKING, A CERTAIN DISTANCE.

I THINK WE HEARD EARLIER FROM SOMEBODY THAT HAS LOST PARKING FOR THEIR BUSINESS AND THEY'RE OUT THERE SCURRYING LOOKING FOR MORE PARKING FOR THEIR BUSINESS.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM WE HAVE WITH THIS OFF-SITE PARKING UNLESS YOU GET A LEASE FOR 100 YEARS, OR SOME RENEWABLE LEASE AFTER 40 YEARS, OR SOMETHING THAT WILL ACTUALLY MAKE A BUSINESS VIABLE.

I CAN UNDERSTAND THE APPLICANT BEING UPSET THAT HE'S FEELING LIKE HE'S BEING BLOCKED FROM GETTING LEASES.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON, BUT I FEEL EVERY ONE OF THESE OFF-SITE APPROVALS HAVE TO BE PINNED DOWN AND HAVE TO HAVE A LONG LEASE INVOLVED WITH THEM.

I FEEL FOR THE APPLICANT.

I THINK THE CONCEPT FOR THIS IS ACTUALLY A VERY GOOD IDEA.

I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA AT THIS LOCATION.

I DRIVE THAT INTERSECTION TWO OR THREE TIMES A DAY AND I SEE IT BACKED UP, AND WE DON'T HAVE SAN SEBASTIAN ON YET.

[02:50:01]

IT'S A BIG ISSUE HERE.

SOMEWHERE IN THEIR PRESENTATION, THEY TALKED ABOUT HOURS BETWEEN 10:00 AND 8:00, AND THEN THEY TALKED ABOUT 10:00 AND 10:00, AND THEN WE TALKED ABOUT 10:00 AND 12:00 AND ON THE WEEKENDS PERHAPS.

YOU TALK ABOUT BUFFERING.

BUFFERING WITH A WROUGHT IRON FENCE AND VEGETATION IS NOT GOING TO BUFFER ANY NOISE.

YOU NEED A CONCRETE BLOCK WALL OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO CUT DOWN ON NOISE.

IF THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING, THAT DOESN'T WORK.

I'M BOTHERED BY WHAT WE'VE HEARD TONIGHT ABOUT ALL THE BUSINESSES NOT BEING IN COMPLIANCE WITH PARKING.

ARE WE THAT SHORT ON EVERY ONE OF THESE BUSINESSES? CAN YOU GIVE US SOME INSIGHT INTO THAT?

>> I KNOW THINGS EVOLVE OVER TIME.

EACH SITUATION HAS ITS OWN CONDITIONS.

THERE ARE PROPERTIES THAT ARE NON-CONFORMING PROBABLY THAT HAVE BEEN GRANDFATHERED INTO A CERTAIN EXTENT THAT THEN HAVE OTHER COMMERCIAL USES COME IN, BUT WE DON'T NECESSARILY CONSIDER THEM SHORT ON PARKING BECAUSE IF IT'S GRANDFATHERED IN, THEN THAT'S THE EXISTING CONDITIONS OF THAT SITE.

BUT I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICS ON ALL THE PROJECTS.

>> SURE. THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION TO THROW AT YOU.

BUT THE ARGUMENT WAS MADE THAT THOSE BUSINESS AREN'T IN COMPLIANCE.

BUT THIS WOULDN'T BE IN COMPLIANCE NECESSARILY EITHER AND WE'RE JUST MAKING THE SITUATION WORSE.

I COULD BELIEVE THAT THE BUSINESSES IN THE AREA WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE PARKING IN THEIR PARKING LOTS THAT THEY ALREADY ACQUIRED FOR.

THE ISSUE THAT YOU BROUGHT UP, COMMISSIONER BLONDER, ABOUT THE TROLLEYS.

THEY DON'T GO FOR THE EXTENT OF TIME, AND WE DON'T WANT THEM TO GO FOR THE EXTENT OF TIME, PLEASE.

[LAUGHTER] THAT'S NOT REALLY HELPING ON THIS PARKING SITUATION.

I GUESS THAT'S ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE.

>> ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT OR STAFF? CLARIFICATIONS? ANYONE NEED TO GET A CLARIFICATION? I THINK I'VE GOTTEN ALL MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND I THINK THAT WE SHOULD BEGIN DELIBERATIONS.

WHO WANTS TO GO FIRST? YOU DON'T WANT TO GO FIRST?

>> I'M READY TO MAKE A MOTION, SO I'D RATHER WAIT AND HEAR MY COLLEAGUES.

>> OKAY. COMMISSIONER GARRIS.

>> WELL, [NOISE] THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF INFORMATION AND A LOT OF READING, A LOT OF REVIEWING.

IT APPEARS THAT PLANNING AND ZONING TOOK ALL THIS INFORMATION AND CAME UP WITH THE BEST SOLUTION THAT THEY THOUGHT FOR THAT PARTICULAR PROPERTY.

I DID HAVE THE PLEASURE OF MEETING WITH THE APPLICANT, MR. RYAN DETRA, AND HE'S ENTHUSIASTIC.

HEARING ABOUT THIS PROJECT, IT WAS EXCITING TO HEAR ABOUT THAT.

HOWEVER, THE LOCATION THAT THIS PROJECT IS GOING TO BE ON, BASICALLY, TO ME APPEARS TO BE OVERWHELMING FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

MAYBE IF IT WAS JUST THE TRAIN AND PARKING WOULD BE ONE THING OR MAYBE IF IT WAS JUST THE DISTILLERY AND NO TRAIN WOULD BE ANOTHER BECAUSE THEN YOU COULD PROVIDE SOME PARKING.

THE OFF-SITE PARKING AND THE RIDE-SHARE ISN'T WORKING FOR OUR CURRENT BUSINESSES.

IF HE'S SAYING THAT THE BUSINESSES ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE, THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING,

[02:55:01]

APPARENTLY SOME OF THOSE BUSINESSES MIGHT BE USING THE RIDE-SHARE AND THE OFF-SITE PARKING.

I HAVE BEEN DOWN LA QUINTA A COUPLE OF TIMES WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO GET TO THE POST OFFICE FROM A DIFFERENT ANGLE, AND I HAVE ALWAYS FOUND IT A QUAINT QUIET STREET.

I ONLY RECALL TWO BUSINESSES BEING ON THAT LOCATION BESIDES THE HORSE & CARRIAGE.

ONE BEING A VEGETABLE STAND.

THEY SOLD JAM AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE AND THERE WERE SOME PICTURES DISPLAYED OF IT.

EARLIER, I USED TO TAKE A WALK WHEN I WORKED FOR THE CITY DOWN THAT WAY AND JUST PICK UP A COUPLE OF ITEMS SO I DIDN'T HAVE TO GO TO THE SUPERMARKET.

THE OTHER ONE IS A TRAVEL AGENCY THAT SITS ON THE CORNER THAT HAS NEVER HAD A CONGESTION PROBLEM THAT I WITNESSED.

I ACTUALLY UTILIZED THEM ONCE.

I THINK WHEN WE LOOK AT IT BEING A COMMERCIAL AREA, WE LOOK AT IT BEING A SMALL BUSINESS TYPE AREA, LIKE A COFFEE SHOP PERHAPS OR SOMETHING THAT A COLLEGE STUDENT COULD GO IN AND JUST GET SOMETHING AND KEEP IT MOVING, WALKING WISE ONTO THEIR CLASSES.

AGAIN, I THINK THE PROJECT IS BRILLIANT.

MY PERSONAL TAKE ON IT, AFTER TALKING TO PEOPLE, TALKING TO THE BUSINESSES, TALKING TO RESIDENTS, GETTING NUMEROUS EMAILS, HEARING THE VOICES OF PEOPLE AND THE CONCERNS, AND HEARING THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE FOR IT, I JUST CAN'T SUPPORT THAT BUSINESS ON THAT CORNER.

THAT'S ALL.

>> OKAY.

>> I'VE WATCHED ALL THE PZB AND I REALLY APPRECIATE WHAT THOSE PEOPLE DO ON THEIR VOLUNTEER TIME, IT'S TOUGH.

I ALSO REALLY APPRECIATE MR. DETRA'S WORK THAT HE'S DONE WITH THE AMPHITHEATER AND WITH CAFFEINE 11, I WAS THERE YESTERDAY AND ALSO WITH THE ICE PLANT.

WHAT HE SAYS IS TRUE.

WHATEVER BUSINESS HE DOES WOULD BE HIGH-QUALITY, IT WILL BE WELL-RUN AND IT WILL BE AN ADDITION TO THE CITY.

BUT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM FOR ALL OF THIS IS PARKING.

EVEN MR. DETRA MENTIONED THAT THEY HAVE A PARKING PROBLEM BECAUSE PEOPLE PARK THEIR CARS THERE ALL DAY AND GET ON THE TRAIN.

HE'S ACKNOWLEDGING THE FACT THAT PARKING IS GOING TO BECOME A PROBLEM WITH ADDITIONAL BUSINESSES IN THAT AREA UNLESS THE BUSINESS HAS PROVIDED THE PARKING THEMSELVES.

EVERYBODY SAID THAT. EVEN MR. WHITEHOUSE SAID YOU CAN'T GET EMOTIONAL ABOUT THIS, ABOUT WHETHER IT'S A GOOD PROJECT OR NOT.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE TRAIN AND HIS BUSINESSES FLOURISH, BUT NOT AT THIS LOCATION.

I JUST CAN'T SUPPORT THAT.

IF HE HAD A THIRD LETTER OF INTENT AND I'M SORRY IF WHAT HE SAYS IS TRUE THAT THERE'S PERSONAL THINGS GOING ON IN THAT SITUATION, BUT WE DON'T KNOW THAT FOR A FACT, IT'S JUST HEARSAY, BUT I'VE SAID, IF HE HAD SOME SIGNS OF PARKING, I MIGHT BE WILLING TO AGREE EVEN THOUGH IT'S OFFSITE TO CONSIDER IT.

MY BIG FEAR IS WE LET IT GO FORWARD THAT HE WILL GET OFF-SITE PARKING THAT WILL NOT BE ACCEPTABLE, BUT HE'S ALREADY DEVELOPED A SITE.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO THEN? WE'RE NOT GOING TO TELL HIM TAKE THE TRAIN AWAY. THAT'S THE REALITY OF IT.

>> ARE YOU READY FOR MOTION?

>> HAS EVERYONE SPOKEN? WE'VE ALL SPOKEN EXCEPT FOR YOU. YOU'RE READY?

>> I'M READY. I WOULD JUST SAY I THINK PART OF IT; THE ZONING IS CL1, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A BUFFER BETWEEN A LOWER INTENSITY, THE RESIDENTIAL THAT'S THERE, AND THE HIGH INTENSITY THAT IS JUST SOUTH OF IT.

IT'S MEANT REALLY TO BE NOT AS INTENSE A USE IS WHAT.

I THINK IT EVOLVED FROM THE FIRST SUGGESTION ON THAT SIDE AND IT'S GOTTEN MORE AND MORE INTENSE.

THERE SHOULD BE A WAY TO DO A GOOD SMALL DEVELOPMENT THERE AS COMMISSIONER GARRIS SAID, MAYBE IT IS; THE TRAIN AND PARKING, IT WAS THE SMALL RESTAURANT.

MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING ELSE, BUT THAT'S NOT ALL OF WHAT IS BEFORE US HERE TONIGHT.

THAT'S ALL I WOULD SAY ABOVE IT.

[03:00:03]

>> OKAY. THIS IS A QUASI-JUDICIAL HEARING AND WE ARE HERE NOT NECESSARILY TO LISTEN TO PEOPLE'S OPINIONS, WE'RE HERE TO MAKE A DECISION BASED ON THREE THINGS AND THAT IS THAT, WAS THE APPLICANT AFFORDED PROCEDURAL DUE PROCESS? DID THE PLANNING AND ZONING APPLY THE CORRECT LAW? WAS THE DECISION THEY MADE SUPPORTED BY COMPETENT AND SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IN THE RECORD? I HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT THROUGH THOSE EYES.

WELL, LET ME JUST SAY THIS.

I DISAGREE ABOUT WHAT A PUD IS AS AN INSTRUMENT.

I THINK A PUD IS A DOCUMENT THAT PROVIDES FLEXIBILITY ON THE CL1, AND THAT'S JUST A PHILOSOPHICAL THING.

THAT'S NOT REALLY A PART OF THIS, BUT I JUST WANTED TO SAY THIS IS A VERY UNIQUE PROPERTY, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY CHALLENGING TO USE IN VERY MANY WAYS TO ITS POTENTIAL, VERY CHALLENGING.

I THINK THE ONLY INSTRUMENT YOU COULD USE IS A PUD TO ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT A PROJECT ON THAT.

I MAY BE WRONG AND I WOULD LOVE TO BE WRONG, BUT I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT AND GET THAT OFF MY CHEST.

I THINK THIS IS A VERY UNIQUE PROPOSAL.

HOWEVER, I DO THINK PLANNING AND ZONING, I BELIEVE WHAT THEY WERE SAYING WAS THE APPLICANT DID NOT MEET THE BURDEN OF PROOF ON PROVIDING PARKING.

I MAY NOT HAVE STATED THAT CORRECTLY, BUT MAYBE THAT'S MORE CONFUSING, BUT MORE SPECIFICALLY, THE APPLICANT WAS SPECIFICALLY ASKED TO PROVIDE A PARKING PLAN WHICH I DON'T THINK IS UNREASONABLE.

INSTEAD, THE APPLICANT SAID, "I WILL PROVIDE PARKING TO YOU BEFORE I GET A CF." THAT IS AN INCREDIBLY CONFIDENT STATEMENT.

LIKE YOU SAID, VERY RISKY, BUT IT IS WHAT PLANNING WHICH GIVES ME MORE CONFIDENCE IN THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE PROJECT.

HOWEVER, I AM HERE NOT TO LISTEN TO EVERYBODY'S OPINIONS, I'M HERE TO LOOK AT THE RECORD AND SAY, WAS THIS DECISION SUPPORTED BY COMPETENT; IT'S SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE? I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED THAT THE CITY DIDN'T HAVE AN EXPERT TESTIMONY ON PARKING.

I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT ON THIS CASE BECAUSE I DO EXPECT THIS TO GO WHERE I CAN SEE WHERE IT'S GOING.

BUT FOR WHATEVER REASON, PLANNING AND ZONING FOR THEIR OWN REASONS AND I'VE REASONS I BELIEVE WERE AT THIS TABLE, THEY DID DENY HIM ON THE BASIS OF NOT PROVIDING A PARKING PLAN.

AS PAINFUL AS THIS MAY BE, I DO AGREE THAT THEY DID NOT AIR.

THEY DID IT RIGHT AND WE SHALL SEE BECAUSE I FEEL VERY CONFIDENT THIS WILL BE GOING TO THE JUDGE.

>> ON THAT NOTE, I DO HAVE A MOTION AND THEN I'M GOING TO SUPPORT IT WITH MY FINDINGS IN OUR CODE.

I REALLY HATE TO TAKE UP A LOT MORE TIME, BUT I THINK IF IT DOES GO TO THE NEXT LEVEL, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S CLEAR WHAT PARTS OF THE CODE I FELT LIKE THE PZB UPHELD.

HERE'S MY MOTION, I MOVE THAT WE AFFIRM THE PZB'S DENIAL OF THE APPLICATION FOR A PUD, AND DENY THE APPEAL.

SPECIFIC REFERENCES TO OUR CODE TIE BACK TO SEVERAL OF OUR CODE PROVISIONS THAT I'D LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT RIGHT NOW SPECIFICALLY.

SECTION 28-286, SUBSECTION D AND SUBSECTION G, PARTICULARLY WITH REGARD TO NEIGHBORHOODS.

SECTION 28-287 IN THE DEFINITION, I WILL READ VERY QUICKLY.

A PUD ESTABLISHED PURSUANT TO ORDINANCE OF THE CITY COMMISSION MUST ALSO INCLUDE AN ATTACHED FINAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND PROJECT NARRATIVE WITH SPECIFIED DEVELOPMENT CONDITIONS

[03:05:03]

IN A PROGRAM FOR THE PROVISION MAINTENANCE.

THIS IS A KEY PART, A PROGRAM FOR THE PROVISION, MAINTENANCE AND OPERATION OF ALL AREAS, IMPROVEMENTS, FACILITIES, AND NECESSARY SERVICES FOR A COMMON USE OF ALL THE OCCUPANTS THEREOF GOING BACK TO , THAT WAS 28-287.

28-288, THERE ARE NO FORMAL WRITTEN AGREEMENTS FOR THE LONG-TERM MAINTENANCE OF ALL SECTIONS OF THE PROJECT PROPOSAL INCLUDED, PARTICULARLY WITH REGARD TO OFF-SITE PARKING.

SECTION 28-289.

I HAVE THREE HIGHLIGHTED PORTIONS HERE.

28-289A, NUMBER 7.

THAT IS ON PAGE 29. SORRY.

IDENTIFICATION OF THE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE ENTITY OR ENTITIES FOR CONTINUING OPERATIONS AND MAINTENANCE TO SUCH AREAS, FUNCTIONS AND FACILITIES ARE NOT TO BE PROVIDED, OPERATED OR MAINTAINED BY THE CITY PURSUANT TO A WRITTEN AGREEMENT.

SECTION 28-289, I'M JUST GOING GO AHEAD AND LIST THEM INSTEAD OF READING THESE BECAUSE I'M HAVING A HARD TIME GOING BACK AND FORTH.

SECTION 28-289 SUBSECTION B NUMBER 4 THIS PARTICULAR FRAGMENT WILL BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE ADJACENT NEIGHBORHOOD.

SECTION 28-289 SUBSECTION C, IT DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS.

SECTION 28-292 DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENTS.

ON THOSE BASES, I MAKE THAT MOTION.

>> MAY I ASK JUST SO OUR RECORDS ARE CLEAR BECAUSE I'M GOING TO HAVE TO TYPE THIS UP.

ARE YOU INCLUDING VICE MAYOR HORVATH'S FINDINGS ON THE PUBLIC PURPOSE OF MAINTAINING THE EXISTING ZONING? WAS IT INTENDED TO BE A COMBINED SET OF FINDINGS? JUST SO I'M CLEAR OR NOT.

>> I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP IT TO THE PUD SINCE THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO GET THE PUD.

I WAS JUST SAYING THAT THE CL1 PURPOSE OF IT WAS THE BUFFER, AND THIS WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING IS NO LONGER A BUFFER BECAUSE OF ITS INTENSITY, SO I THINK WHAT SHE'S CITING.

>> IS THE PUD.

>> CORRECT. I'M JUST WANTING TO MAKE SURE IF IT DOES GO TO A JUDGE THAT YOU ARE MAKING THAT AFFIRMATIVE STATEMENT OR NOT? I DON'T KNOW. I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE CONVERSATION THAT MAINTAINING THE EXISTING ZONING DOES FURTHER A PUBLIC PURPOSE. IS THAT CORRECT?

>> I'M SEEING NODS, SO I'M GUESSING THAT I UNDERSTOOD THAT CORRECTLY. THANK YOU.

>> ANY FURTHER DEBATE OR COMMENTS? MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

>> I WOULD SECOND THAT.

>> NANCY SIKES-KLINE.

WE NEED TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT APPEAL ITEMS 6B,

>> THAT'S DONE.

[6.B. Appeal of City Manager decision to deny application for an animal drawn carriage permit by Teresa A. Henegar, Celebration Carriage. (D. Birchim, City Manager)]

APPEAL OF THE CITY MANAGERS DECISION TO DENY THE APPLICATION FOR ANIMAL DRAWN CARRIAGE BY TERESA HENEGAR, CELEBRATION CARRIAGE.

MR. PATRON.

>> MAYOR, VICE MAYOR AND COMMISSIONERS, CITY, THE TOTAL NUMBER OF PERMITS FOR HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES IN OUR CODE IS IDENTIFIED AS NOT TO EXCEED 30.

CURRENTLY, THERE WERE I SHOULD SAY, MOST RECENTLY THERE WERE 15 PERMITS THAT HAD BEEN ISSUED BY THE CITY.

ONE OF THOSE PERMITS WAS RETURNED TO THE CITY, WAS NOT RENEWED ON THE BASIS OF THIS FISCAL YEAR.

AFTER THAT ONE PERMIT WAS RETURNED TO THE CITY, THREE COMPANIES IMMEDIATELY APPLIED TO MY OFFICE FOR ME TO ISSUE THAT PERMIT TO THEIR INDIVIDUAL COMPANIES.

I WROTE A LETTER TO ALL THREE COMPANIES, WHICH I BELIEVE IS IN YOUR PACKET.

CITY CODE ALLOWS THE CITY MANAGER TO ENTER INTO FRANCHISE AGREEMENTS.

THERE ARE CONDITIONS THAT ACCOMPANY THAT.

THIS FRANCHISE AGREEMENTS ARE FOR THE ENJOYMENT AND EXERCISE BY A FRANCHISEE OF ANY AND ALL RIGHTS TO USE THE CITY STREETS, ALLEYS, PUBLIC WAYS AND PLACES, BUT SHELBY SUBJECT AND SUBORDINATE TO THE DOMINANT RIGHT OF THE PUBLIC TO USE THE STREETS, ALLEYS, PUBLIC WAYS, AND PLACES INTO THE LAWFUL EXERCISE OF CONTROL BY THE CITY OVER THE USERS.

[03:10:04]

I FOUND THAT IN LOOKING AT OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, SPECIFICALLY IN OUR TRANSPORTATION MOBILITY ELEMENTS, THE GOAL NUMBER 1 IN TRANSPORTATION, AND I WON'T GO THROUGH THIS, THIS IS IN YOUR PACKET, GOAL NUMBER 2, MOBILITY AND GOAL NUMBER 3, MOBILITY PLANNING.

THE CONTINUING TO APPROVE HORSE-DRAWN TOURING VEHICLES IS CONTRARY TO THE GOALS OF THE CITY'S COMPREHENSIVE PLAN.

FURTHER, IN ADDITION TO THIS, THE KING STREET BRIDGE REDEVELOPMENT IS GOING TO OCCUR WITHIN ONE YEAR.

AFTER THAT, THE BASE OF THE BRIDGE OF LINES ON THE EAST SIDE IS SCHEDULED FOR REDEVELOPMENT, AND FOLLOWING THAT, KING STREET ITSELF WILL BE REDEVELOPED BY THE CITY.

ALL OF THESE WILL RESULT IN INCREASED TRAFFIC, INCREASED TRAFFIC MOVEMENTS, INCREASED TRAFFIC CONGESTION, AND POTENTIAL CONFLICTS BETWEEN VEHICLES OF ALL KINDS, AND PEDESTRIANS.

IT'S CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC SAFETY TO APPROVE HORSE-DRAWN TOURING VEHICLES ON THESE ROADWAYS AT THIS TIME.

THEREFORE, I DENIED THE APPLICATIONS FOR THIS ADDITIONAL HORSE CARRIAGE PERMIT, WHICH IS THE BASIS OF THE APPEAL BY MS. TERESA HENEGAR, AND I BELIEVE SHE'S HERE TO APPEAR BEFORE YOU TONIGHT.

>> QUESTIONS OF STAFF, QUESTIONS THAT MR. BURTON, BEFORE WE HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT.

>> YES. THANK YOU MS. MAYOR. I DO UNDERSTAND THAT PREVIOUS CITY COMMISSION AGREED TO HAVE 15 PERMITS, EVEN THOUGH THE CODE ALLOWS FOR 30, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT WAS THEIR PREFERENCE.

>> I BELIEVE YOUR CITY ATTORNEY WANTS TO DESCRIBE TO YOU THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS FORM OF APPEAL AND THE APPEAL THAT YOU JUST HEARD.

>> THIS IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE APPEAL, SO IT'S DIFFERENT. THANK YOU.

>> YES, THIS ISN'T A QUASI JUDICIAL MATTER, AND A LOT OF THESE ISSUES WERE LITIGATED BACK IN 2008, AND WE HAD A VERY THOROUGH OPINION BY JUDGE COGGIN IN THE FEDERAL COURTS THAT DID SAY ESSENTIALLY YOU'RE ADMINISTERING A PUBLIC POLICY THAT CAN HAVE ANTI-COMPETITIVE RESULTS TO IT, AND THAT IS YOUR CHOICE OF POLICY MAKING.

>> THE PROCEDURE WILL BE THERE'S NO SPECIFIC PROCEDURE IN THIS ONE, BUT WE WILL ALLOW THE APPELLANT TO PRESENT WHATEVER POLICY ARGUMENT SHE WISHES AND I BELIEVE SHE IS HERE.

>> WE NEED TO SEE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ITEM.

>> YOU CERTAINLY MAY.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAD CARDS FOR THIS PARTICULAR ITEM, BUT YOU CAN MAKE AN OPEN CALL IF THERE'S SOMEONE WHO HAS PUBLIC COMMENT.

>> I DON'T HAVE ANY CARDS FOR THIS ITEM BUT WE'LL HEAR FROM THE APPELLANT NOW, MS. HENNIGAR.

>> TERESA HENEGAR, 1550 COUNTY ROAD 13A NORTH, ST. AUGUSTINE.

I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 25 YEARS, AND THE LADY THAT OWNED THE COMPANY ORIGINALLY OR HAD THE LICENSE IS DEATHLY ILL, SHE HAD TO RETIRE.

I'VE BEEN RUNNING HER COMPANY FOR FOUR YEARS.

I'VE RUN ALL THE COMPANIES HERE.

I'VE BEEN 25 YEARS DOING NOTHING BUT THIS.

MY CARRIAGE AND MY HORSE HAVE OBLIGATIONS FOR THE NIGHTS OF LIGHTS, I'M BOOKED UP COMPLETELY.

SHE HAD TO LEAVE, SO SHE WANTED TO LEAVE AND I WANTED TO TAKE IT OVER AND MY HORSE HAS BEEN ALSO ON THESE STREETS FOR FIVE YEARS.

I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE I MISUNDERSTAND HOW AND WHAT HIS DECISION IS ON ROADS BEING DONE, BUT WE'RE CLEARLY DOING A LOT OF CONSTRUCTION NOW THAT I GO THROUGH.

I AM ACTUALLY THE ONE PERSON WITH A HORSE THAT DOES GO THROUGH IT, WITHOUT A PROBLEM.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY OTHER THAN I WAS GOING TO PUT A CONTINUANCE AND PULL A LAWYER, BUT I DON'T THINK I SHOULD HAVE TO BECAUSE I DO A GOOD JOB.

I'M VERY AWARE I'VE NEVER HAD AN ACCIDENT.

THAT'S ALL I GOT TO SAY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO OTHER THAN THIS IS WHAT I DO.

THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING.

IT'S ALL I KNOW WHAT TO DO AND I'M GOOD AT IT, AND THE TRAFFIC, YES, I GET THAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING TRAFFIC, BUT I'M ONE OF THE 15 LICENSES.

THIS LICENSE THAT I WANT IS ONE OF THE 15, SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S ALREADY, IT'S NOT STOPPED.

IT'S NOT TO TAKE IT AWAY, AND IN THE MIDDLE OF NIGHT, WHEN NIGHTS OF LIGHTS IS GOING TO START IS GOING TO DO SOME DAMAGE TO THE CARRIAGES.

WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO GIVE IT BACK.

THE PEOPLE ARE HERE TO HAVE A RIDE, AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO TELL THEM TOO BAD.

[03:15:04]

>> ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPELLANT? OR I'M SORRY, I DON'T WANT TO INTERRUPT IF YOU'RE NOT FINISHED.

>> I'M DONE.

>> ALL RIGHT. ANY QUESTIONS OF THE APPELLANT? ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF?

>> IS THERE ANYBODY IN THE PUBLIC THAT HAS A COMMENT? I THINK NOT.

>> ANYONE HERE, YES.

WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT.

SIR, IF YOU'LL APPROACH THE PODIUM AND STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND PLEASE FILL OUT A CARD AND GIVE IT TO THE CLERK AFTER YOU SPEAK.

>> THANK YOU. MY NAME IS ERIN JOKERS 5 PALM RAIL, IT'S MY PLACE OF BUSINESS AND HAS BEEN.

I'VE RUN COMPANIES NOW IN THIS TOWN FOR ALMOST 10 YEARS, AND I STARTED OFF IN TOURISM BECAUSE IN THIS TOWN IT'S GOING TO MAKE MONEY, IT'S TOURISM.

I'M AT TERESA HENEGAR IN 2010, AND SHE RUNS AN OXY TRANSFER, COUNTRY CARRIAGES, EVERY COMPANY YOU CAN THINK OF VERY WELL, AND BECAUSE OF HER, I'M PROBABLY ALIVE.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT TO BE DISINGENUOUS. I WAS TERRIBLE.

YOU ASK MY PARTNER, I'M STILL TERRIBLE.

BUT THE POINT IS I GOT BETTER DRIVING HORSES BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE TERESA HENEGAR ON THE STREETS.

THERE IS NO ONE WHO CARES MORE ABOUT THE SAFETY AND WELL-BEING OF HER ANIMALS.

I'VE SEEN HER PULLED NUMEROUS NIGHTS, STAYING WITH SICK HORSES AND KEEPING THEM SAFE.

HER COMPANY HAS A STELLAR RECORD OF ANY ISSUES OF NOT HAVING ISSUES, NOT HAVING TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS, TAKING CARE OF HORSES, TAKING CARE OF OTHER COMPANIES' HORSES, HELPING OTHER PEOPLE FOLLOW ALL THE THINGS THEY NEED TO DO, MAKING SURE THEY GET THEIR APPROVALS AND THEIR INSPECTIONS AND EVERYTHING AND TRAINING DRIVERS, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NO PHYSICAL BENEFIT TO HER.

TERESA LOVES THIS INDUSTRY.

SHE'S BEEN DOING NOW, LIKE SHE SAID, MOST OF HER LIFE, AND THIS IS NOT A NEW LICENSE BEING ADDED TO THE TOWN.

START A NEW LIKE A 16TH FRANCHISE.

IT'S ONE THAT'S ALREADY IN PROCESS.

IT'S ONE THAT'S ALREADY BEEN GOING ON, AND YES WE LOVE CHRIS CUSHION.

SHE DID HAVE TO RETIRE, AND SO THIS IS BASICALLY A CONTINUATION OF THAT LEGACY AND THAT'S WHY I'M GLAD THAT WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REAPPLY FOR SOME DO IT THE RIGHT WAY, TO DO IT THE CORRECT WAY, BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THE CITY SHOULD BE HANDLING THE FRANCHISES, AND WERE VERY EAGER TO SERVE THE PUBLIC ONCE AGAIN, FOR NIGHTS OF LIGHTS AND HELP OUT.

LIKE SHE SAID, I DON'T REALLY KNOW MUCH ELSE TO SAY.

I UNDERSTAND THE TRAFFIC CONSTRAINTS.

I UNDERSTAND THE FACT THAT WE'RE NOT INCLUDED IN THE MOBILITY PROGRAM.

I BELIEVE THAT'S A SEPARATE ISSUE AND AS A STAKEHOLDER, WE ARE BEING INTERVIEWED BY THE CURRENT INDEPENDENT GROUP, THAT IS DOING THE MOBILITY PLANS, AND WE WERE ACTUALLY VERY DISAPPOINTED TO BE LEFT OUT OF THE MOBILITY PLAN COMPLETELY.

THE HORSES HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE 1877 WE ARE THE OLDEST FOR MOBILITY IN ST. AUGUSTINE, AND I UNDERSTAND THE GOAL AS I READ IN THE APPEAL IN THE PACKET THAT I BELIEVE WAS SENT TO YOU AS TO ENHANCE THE PURPOSE OF CITY LIFE AND ENHANCE THE TOWN.

POINTER MOBILITY PLAN, FOLKS COME TO ST. AUGUSTINE TO RIDE THE HORSES.

NOW IT MIGHT BE A PHILOSOPHICAL DEBATE DO WE WANT HORSES IN THE FUTURE? WE WANT LESS OR MORE? I UNDERSTAND THAT, AND THIS DISCUSSION WE'RE PREPARED TO HAVE AND WHAT WE SHOULD DO, PERHAPS WE SHOULD HAVE EVEN MORE.

THE POINT IS IT IS A DESTINATION IN AMERICA AND HAS BEEN AT THE OLDEST HORSE AND CARRIAGE INDUSTRY IN THE ENTIRE NATION OF AMERICA, AND THAT'S AN IMPORTANT HALLMARK WE SHOULD REMEMBER WHEN MAKING THESE DECISIONS.

I UNDERSTAND NO ONE WANTS TO BIND A HORSE.

I DON'T LIKE IT EITHER. NOT WHEN IT'S UP ON A BRIDGE OR A TROLLEY.

BUT THE POINT IS, WE TAKE GOOD CARE OF OUR ANIMALS AND ANYONE FROM ANY CITY CAN COME HERE AND SEE THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR OUR HORSES, HOW MUCH WE REALLY CARE ABOUT THEM, AND THERE'S NO ONE IN THIS INDUSTRY WHO EXEMPLIFIES THAT BETTER THAN TERESA HENEGAR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU. COMMISSIONERS. WE ARE HERE TO EITHER UPHOLD THE UPHOLD THE CITY MANAGER'S DECISION OR TO OVERRULE HIS DECISION.

WHAT IS THE PLENAR? WHO WILL GO FIRST?

>> I HAVE A QUESTION.

>> YEAH.

>> I'M CONFUSED. IS THIS AN ADDITIONAL LICENSE OR A REPLACEMENT LICENSE? HOW MANY TOTAL LICENSES ARE OUT THERE AND HOW MANY TOTAL LICENSES WOULD BE OUT THERE IF WE REJECTED YOUR, WHATEVER THE TERMINOLOGY IS?

>> FIFTEEN IS THE TOTAL NUMBER.

>> HOW MANY?

>> FIFTEEN. THIS DROPPED IT DOWN TO 14.

SHE'S ASKING FOR THIS LICENSE TO BE TRANSFERRED TO HER COMPANY.

THEY'RE NON TRANSFERABLE.

THE PREVIOUS OWNER, THERE WAS SOME CONFUSION WHEN SHE SAID I USED TO RUN THIS LICENSE, AND IF SHE DIDN'T, THIS WOULD MAKE A TOTAL OF 15 HORSE CARRIAGE LICENSES.

YOU COULD HAVE 15 HORSE CARRIAGES ON THE STREET.

>> BASICALLY, SHE DID WORK WITH THE PERSON THAT HAD THE LICENSE THAT CONTAINS THE LICENSES, IS THAT NOT CORRECT?

>> I'M SORRY.

>> THAT'S WHAT HER APPLICATION SAYS, YES.

>> YOU WORKED WITH THE PERSON THAT HAD TO STOP FOR THOSE 25 YEARS, IS THAT CORRECT?

[03:20:01]

>> PLEASE [OVERLAPPING] WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE YOU ON THE RECORD. THANK YOU.

>> I'VE WORKED FOR ALL THE COMPANIES FOR 25 YEARS HERE.

I'VE RUN ALL THE COMPANIES HERE.

CHRIS CUSHION GOT REAL SICK.

SHE'S NOT GOING TO COME OUT OF IT, SO SHE THOUGHT THE RIGHT THING TO DO WAS TO GIVE THE LICENSE BACK TO THE CITY LIKE EVERYBODY HAS ALWAYS BEEN TOLD.

THEN I APPLIED FOR IT.

>> DID YOU WORK WITH HER PRIOR TO HER GIVING THE LICENSE BACK WAS MY QUESTION?

>> YES. I'VE WORKED FOR HER FOR FOUR YEARS.

>> I THINK SINCE SHE'S ALREADY MADE OBLIGATIONS WITH PEOPLE AND BOOKED THINGS FOR NIGHTS OF LIGHTS, AND SHE'S WORKED WITH NUMEROUS HORSES ESTABLISHMENT.

I THINK WE SHOULD OVERTURN THEIR APPEAL AND LET HER HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY IN THAT LICENSE.

>> MR. BURTON, SIX MONTHS AGO, HOW MANY LICENSES WERE ACTIVE AND ON THE STREET?

>> FIFTEEN.

>> CURRENTLY THERE ARE 14 WORKING ACTIVE, AND JUST SO I UNDERSTAND CLEARLY, THE REASON FOR THE DENIAL IS THE AMOUNT OF CONSTRUCTION THAT WE HAVE ONGOING ON NOW AND WILL BE IN THE NEXT NUMBER OF YEARS.

>> MADAM MAYOR, I THINK MAYBE LOOKING AT IT IN A DIFFERENT LIGHT.

I CERTAINLY FEEL ALSO THAT YOU'VE MADE OBLIGATIONS FOR NIGHTS OF LIGHTS.

BUT I ALSO FEEL THAT WE HAVE SO MANY THINGS ON OUR STREETS RIGHT NOW AND THE MAJOR AMOUNT OF CONSTRUCTION WE'RE GOING TO BE FACING, I CONCUR THAT THE CITY MANAGER MADE THE RIGHT DECISION TO TRY TO CUT DOWN ON THE NUMBER OF CARRIAGES, SO I GUESS WHAT I'M SAYING IS COULD WE DO IT WHERE SHE COULD HAVE THE LICENSE UNTIL NIGHTS OF LIGHTS IS OVER, IN WHICH CASE SHE MEETS HER OBLIGATIONS.

BUT THEN WE TAKE IT OFF SO THAT WE CAN HAVE LESS OF THAT ON THE STREETS WHILE WE'RE DOING ALL THIS CONSTRUCTION.

THAT WOULD BE A SUGGESTION I WOULD MAKE FOR OUR ATTORNEY TO RESPOND.

>> IN THEORY I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE WHAT THE APPELLANT ACTUALLY WANTS, BUT YES, IN THEORY, IF BOTH YOU AND THE LADY WISH TO AGREE TO A VERY LIMITED FRANCHISE IN TERMS OF TIME FOR JUST A FEW MONTHS, THEORETICALLY, YOU COULD DO SO, YES.

BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT REALLY MEETS WHAT SHE IS REQUESTING.

>> WELL, IT'S MY LIVELIHOOD, SO I DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP MY FOOD AT THE END OF THIS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I NEED TO DO THIS.

MAYBE AT THE END OF NIGHTS OF LIGHTS, WE CAN RELOOK AT THIS AND DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT I CAN KEEP THE LICENSE.

>> COMMISSIONER SPRINGFIELD?

>> GO AHEAD.

>> QUESTION FOR THE MANAGER.

DO YOU INTEND TO NON-RENEW, ANY OF THE OTHER LICENSES BECAUSE OF THE TRAFFIC?

>> I DO.

>> YOU ARE GOING TO REDUCE IT MAYBE DOWN TO ZERO OR?

>> I MEAN, THROUGH ATTRITION IF THE LICENSES BECOME AVAILABLE, I WAS NOT GOING TO RENEW THEM UNTIL AFTER THE CONSTRUCTION PERIOD ON OUR ROADWAYS.

>> DO WE HAVE THE OPTION TO NON-RENEW ANNUALLY?

>> WELL, YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY, AS THE FEDERAL JUDGE SAID, TO REGULATE THIS AND YOU DO REGULATE IT THROUGH YOUR CODE.

THERE ARE EXISTING FRANCHISES THAT HAVE A NUMBER OF YEARS AND I DO NOT KNOW WHAT YEAR EACH FRANCHISE IS AT, IF THEY'RE ABOUT TO EXPIRE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE CITY MANAGER HAS THAT INFORMATION ON HIS [OVERLAPPING]

>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THEY RENEW AUTOMATICALLY UNLESS THEY CHOOSE NOT TO RENEW.

THEY WOULD BE DOING THE SAME THING AS THIS PREVIOUS PERMIT HOLDER DID, WAS NOT PAYING THE RENEWAL FOR THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR AND RETURNING THE PERMIT.

>> THE OTHER COMMENT I HAVE IS THAT IF WE DO DECIDE TO OVERTURN THE MANAGER, SHE'S JUST ONE OF THE APPLICANTS, AND SO THERE PROBABLY NEEDS TO BE RETURNED TO THE MANAGER AND SAY, FILL THE 15TH WAGON, THE CARRIAGE, BUT COME UP WITH A PROCESS TO PICK WHICH ONE SHOULD GET IT.

BECAUSE THERE WERE THREE PEOPLE THAT REQUESTED THAT ONE CONTRACT.

>> THEY ALREADY HAVE LICENSES.

THEY ALREADY HAVE CARRIAGE COMPANY.

>> CORRECT. I KNOW THAT.

>> I GAVE ONE TO A GIRL MAYBE THREE MONTHS AGO THAT HAD NO EXPERIENCE AND NEITHER DID HER HORSE.

>> CORRECT. THEN THAT'S WITHIN THE MANAGERS RIGHT.

BUT I MEAN, I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE ONLY FAIR FOR THE OTHER TWO PEOPLE THAT YOU DENIED IF WE SEND IT BACK TO THE MANAGER.

[03:25:02]

>> MR. MANAGER, DID YOU WANT TO RESPOND TO THAT? [LAUGHTER]

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW TO RESPOND TO THAT.

[LAUGHTER] I DON'T KNOW HOW TO PICK WHICH ONE GETS IT, FRANKLY.

>> WELL, I JUST WANT US TO BE CAREFUL THAT THIS PARTICULAR PERSON DID FILE A FORMAL APPEAL FOLLOWING OUR CODE, AND IT'S A 15 DAY WINDOW.

SHE IS THE PERSON BEFORE YOU MAKING HER APPEAL.

REALLY THE FOCUS SHOULD BE ON HER APPLICATION.

>> CAN I MAKE A COMMENT.

I HAVE SPOKEN PUBLICLY BEFORE THAT I CRINGE WHEN I GET BEHIND A HORSE, AND I ACTUALLY AVOID AVENIDA MENENDEZ BECAUSE I SEE WAY TOO MANY NEAR MISSES WHERE DRIVERS AND VEHICLES ARE.

[LAUGHTER] YOU KNOW WAY BETTER THAN I DO.

>> I ALSO DON'T WORK OFF OF AVENIDA MENENDEZ.

>> THAT'S A GOOD POINT. BUT WE DO HAVE THAT ROUTE AND I'VE ASKED FOR A CHANGE IN ROUTES TO TRY TO IMPROVE THAT SAFETY.

I HAVE SPOKEN PUBLICLY ABOUT EITHER DOING THAT OR REDUCING THE NUMBER OF HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGES, NO OFFENSE, I'M A HORSE LOVER MYSELF.

BUT IT'S AN INCOMPATIBLE USE ON THESE ROADWAYS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE TRAFFIC WE HAVE.

BUT I THINK THAT WHAT VICE MAYOR HORVATH SUGGESTED IS A REASONABLE COMPROMISE, AT LEAST TO GET YOU THROUGH NIGHTS OF LIGHTS AND THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE [OVERLAPPING] BUT THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

>> I SUPPORT COMMISSIONER GARRIS' PROPOSITION TO ISSUE THE LICENSE WITH NO PROVISIONS, KEEP 15 CARRIAGES ON THE STREETS.

THAT WAS A DECISION WE MADE QUITE A FEW YEARS AGO.

I THOUGHT IT WAS A LOT OF DELIBERATION.

I DO FEEL LIKE THEY DO SLOW TRAFFIC DOWN.

>> I'LL GET UP AND RUN AND MOVE OVER OUT OF THE TRAFFIC, I DON'T KNOW THAT EVERYBODY DOES THAT, BUT DON'T FOLLOW ME AROUND [OVERLAPPING]

>> HOW ABOUT THIS TRAFFIC CALMING DEVICE.

>> THAT WOULD BE MY WAVING ARM WITH THIS BIG HAIR.

[OVERLAPPING] STOP IT, SLOW DOWN, GET OFF ME.

YOU GET RESPECT, YOU GET NON-RESPECT.

YOU GET A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE, SO THEY'RE NOT LOOKING FOR A HORSE AND CARRIAGE IN FRONT OF THEM.

BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY PROBLEMS AT ALL IN YEARS.

>> THANK YOU. LET ME JUST SAY THIS.

WE'RE IN DELIBERATIONS NOW.

COMMISSIONERS, WE HAVE WEIGHED THESE, AND MAYBE WE WISH TO REVISIT WEIGHING THE CARRIAGES AND THE TROLLEYS.

BUT WE'VE BEEN THROUGH BOTH, AND I THINK THAT WE HAVE A GOOD BALANCE.

PEOPLE COMPLAIN BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY DO.

[LAUGHTER] IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN MAKING A MOTION, COMMISSIONER GARRIS, I WILL SUPPORT IT WITH A SECOND.

>> I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE OVERTURN THE CITY MANAGER'S DECISION TO DENY THE APPLICATION FROM THE ANIMAL DRAWN CARRIAGE PERMIT BY THERESA A HANNAH GIRL'S CELEBRATION CARRIAGE.

>> I'LL SECOND.

>> ANY DEBATE?

>> CAN WE HAVE DISCUSSION?

>> YES, OF COURSE.

>> I WILL NOT SUPPORT THAT MOTION BECAUSE AS I SAID BEFORE, I THINK WE HAVE A COMPROMISE AND THEN WE CAN BUILD IN SOME TIME TO REVISIT EITHER REROUTING FOR SAFETY AND COMPATIBILITY OR ANOTHER WAY OF APPROACHING HOW WE DO OUR LICENSING, WHETHER IT BE ANNUALLY OR WHATEVER.

I WILL VOTE AGAINST IT, BUT NOT BECAUSE I WANT YOU TO HAVE ANY HARM.

>> ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS? MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

>> CYNTHIA GARRIS?

>> THEN THREE-TWO MOTION CARRIES. THANK YOU.

>> NANCY SIKES-KLINE?

>> WHAT'S THAT MEAN?

>> YOU GOT IT.

>> YOU GOT YOUR PERMIT. [LAUGHTER]

>> CAN I GO HOME NOW?

>> THERE YOU GO. I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD DISCUSSION. THANK YOU.

ON WE MOVE.

WE'RE GOING TO GO TO ITEM 8A,

[8.A.1. Ordinance 2023-31: Charter amendment to remove the police pension section and codify it in the municipal code. (I. Lopez, City Attorney)]

WE HAVE A SECOND READING FOR ORDINANCE 2023-31. MS. LOPEZ.

[03:30:03]

>> MADAM MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, AND COMMISSIONERS, AS WE DISCUSSED AT THE FIRST READING, THIS IS THE FIRST STEP IN AMENDING OUR CHARTER TO ALLOW THE POLICE PENSION SECTION OF THE CHARTER TO ACTUALLY MOVE FROM THE CHARTER AND BE CODIFIED IN WHOLE, EXACTLY THE SAME INTO OUR MUNICIPAL CODE.

THIS SETS THE STAGE TO HAVE THE REFERENDUM QUESTION ON THE PRESIDENTIAL PREFERENCE PRIMARY IN MARCH.

THAT QUESTION WILL GO TO THE VOTERS IF YOU SO CHOOSE, AND I'M HERE FOR ANY QUESTIONS, BUT THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING.

>> QUESTIONS BEFORE WE GO TO PUBLIC HEARING?

>> NONE.

>> THE PUBLIC HEARING IS OPEN.

SEEING NO ONE, I HAVE NO CARDS, PUBLIC HEARING IS CLOSED.

ANY FURTHER COMMENTS OR DISCUSSION?

>> I MOVE THAT WE ACCEPT ORDINANCE 2023-31 ON SECOND READING READ BY TITLE ONLY, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> AND PASSED.

>> AND PASSED, THANK YOU.

>> I WILL SECOND.

>> SECOND.

>> ORDINANCE NUMBER 2023-31, AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA, AMENDING THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE TO REMOVE ARTICLE 9 FROM THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE TO INSTEAD BE CODIFIED WITHIN THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE MUNICIPAL CODE, CREATING CHAPTER 20, ARTICLE 6, SECTION 20-220 THROUGH 20-236 OF THE CODE OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE TO CODIFY THE POLICE OFFICERS RETIREMENT SYSTEM, PROVIDING FOR A REFERENDUM PROPOSITION FOR THE NEXT SPECIAL ELECTION, PROVIDING FOR INCLUSION IN THE CHARTER OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, PROVIDING FOR INCLUSION IN THE CODE OF THE CITY OF ST. AUGUSTINE, AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE.

>> MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.

>> BARBARA BLONDER?

>> LET'S MOVE ON TO RESOLUTION.

>> NANCY SIKES-KLINE.

[8.C.1. Resolution 2023-35 - SECOND PUBLIC HEARING - Designates properties (Parcel ID Nos. 111225-0120, 111225-000, 111220-0000, 11130-0000, 111110-0000, 111220- 0000 known as the Broudy properties) as Brownfield areas. (I. Lopez, City Attorney)]

WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS RESOLUTION, MS. LOPEZ?

>> YES. THIS IS THE RESOLUTION 2023-35.

IT IS A PUBLIC HEARING.

IT IS TO ESTABLISH AN AREA PHYSICAL GEOGRAPHY OF A BROWNFIELD.

THESE ARE, GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE PARCELS KNOWN AS THE BRODY PROPERTY, IT WOULD BE WEST OF THE US ONE, NORTH OF KING STREET.

AGAIN, THIS DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT THE CITY EXPEND ANY FUNDS IN THE BROWNFIELD CLEAN UP, IT'S A STATUTORY PROCESS WHERE THE APPLICANT DOES THE CLEANUP THROUGH A NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT WITH THE STATE AGENCY AND IS ELIGIBLE FOR SOME TAX BREAK BASED ON THAT AND SOME LIABILITY PROTECTION AS WELL AS ANY OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES.

QUESTIONS OF STAFF ON THIS? I SEE MR. BRODY IS HERE, HE'S STUCK THROUGH THIS WITH US THIS EVENING.

I DO HAVE ONE SPEAKER CARDS, SO PUBLIC COMMENT IS OPEN, MS. B.J KALEDI.

MS. DUNN.

>> MS. DUNN.